Euro 2020/21 squad discussion/general chat.

[SkyBlueScot]

I don't have a clue how he'll choose the defence and Midfield. It was 'reported' on Twitter that Clarke wants McTominay pushed forward in the next games. If that's correct it that gives you a choice of these in midfield:

Jack, McGregor, Gilmour, Armstrong, Fraser, Forrest, Christie, McGinn, Turnbull, McTominay, Fleck and McLean. And that's including Gauld within the forwards. 

I think Turnbull is now definite and, like Pasta Mick, i think Gilmour is getting less and less likely despite his ability. As for the others, it's pretty hard to compare. Fraser is a definite for me as he can create, same with Christie, and our options upfront are woeful.

It'd be really sad for Armstrong to miss out but imagine telling McLean he's not coming to the Euros?

[theabsentee]

20 hours ago, SkyBlueScot said:

I don't have a clue how he'll choose the defence and Midfield. It was 'reported' on Twitter that Clarke wants McTominay pushed forward in the next games. If that's correct it that gives you a choice of these in midfield:

Jack, McGregor, Gilmour, Armstrong, Fraser, Forrest, Christie, McGinn, Turnbull, McTominay, Fleck and McLean. And that's including Gauld within the forwards. 

I think Turnbull is now definite and, like Pasta Mick, i think Gilmour is getting less and less likely despite his ability. As for the others, it's pretty hard to compare. Fraser is a definite for me as he can create, same with Christie, and our options upfront are woeful.

It'd be really sad for Armstrong to miss out but imagine telling McLean he's not coming to the Euros?

There is absolutely no chance Armstrong will miss out whether McLean makes it or not. At club level Armstrong has arguably had the best season from any of our midfielders. I would imagine Clarke spends more time considering how he can get him into the starting 11 never mind the squad. 

     As mentioned previously i hope he is thinking about trying him at RWB, he has the energy & intelligence for that role & could be the solution at least short term to our weakest position . O'Donnell played well in Belgrade but with a player of such limited ability its only a matter of when he will be exposed badly & cost us dearly at international level. 

    As for McLean, he is a good top half championship player nothing more, he might still make it as a back up to Ryan Jack but ability wise shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Armstrong. A couple of great pens under pressure shouldn't change that. 

[SkyBlueScot]

3 hours ago, theabsentee said:

There is absolutely no chance Armstrong will miss out whether McLean makes it or not. At club level Armstrong has arguably had the best season from any of our midfielders. I would imagine Clarke spends more time considering how he can get him into the starting 11 never mind the squad. 

     As mentioned previously i hope he is thinking about trying him at RWB, he has the energy & intelligence for that role & could be the solution at least short term to our weakest position . O'Donnell played well in Belgrade but with a player of such limited ability its only a matter of when he will be exposed badly & cost us dearly at international level. 

    As for McLean, he is a good top half championship player nothing more, he might still make it as a back up to Ryan Jack but ability wise shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Armstrong. A couple of great pens under pressure shouldn't change that. 

I do agree. I was just trying to sum up the difficulty choosing the midfield. For me, I would leave McLean out and Armstrong would be in. 

The question is, 'how many of these will make the squad if all are fit?' Jack, McGregor, Gilmour, Armstrong, Fraser, Forrest, Christie, McGinn, Turnbull, McTominay, Fleck and McLean. 

there were 7 chosen in a squad of 25 for the last match and that includes McTominay.

[bigfingers]

3 minutes ago, SkyBlueScot said:

I do agree. I was just trying to sum up the difficulty choosing the midfield. For me, I would leave McLean out and Armstrong would be in. 

The question is, 'how many of these will make the squad if all are fit?' Jack, McGregor, Gilmour, Armstrong, Fraser, Forrest, Christie, McGinn, Turnbull, McTominay, Fleck and McLean. 

there were 7 chosen in a squad of 25 for the last match and that includes McTominay.

I would imagine Forrest, Fraser and Christie will be classed in the striker department. So that leaves Jack, Mcgregor, Armstrong, Mcginn, Turnbull, Fleck, Maclean, Mctominay as the midfield options. At least one will probably be cut. 

[Diamond Scot]

Trying to pick a 23 man squad is difficult.

GKs, 1) Marshall 2) Gordon 3) McCrorie

Defenders

4) Robertson 5) Tierney, 6) ODonnell 7) Hickey 😎 Cooper, 9) Gallacher 10) McTomminey 11) McKenna 12) Hanley 13) Palmer

Midfielders

14) Jack 15) McGreggor 16) McGinn

17) Armstrong 18) Christie 19) Fraser 20) Forrest 21) McLean

Strikers

21) Dkyes 22) McBurnie 23) Griffiths

Thats what I think Clarke will go with. Possibly swap Hanley or Palmer with Hendry or another right sided CB. Possibly Forrest for Turnbull.

[Tartan blood]

56 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Trying to pick a 23 man squad is difficult.

GKs, 1) Marshall 2) Gordon 3) McCrorie

Defenders

4) Robertson 5) Tierney, 6) ODonnell 7) Hickey 😎 Cooper, 9) Gallacher 10) McTomminey 11) McKenna 12) Hanley 13) Palmer

Midfielders

14) Jack 15) McGreggor 16) McGinn

17) Armstrong 18) Christie 19) Fraser 20) Forrest 21) McLean

Strikers

21) Dkyes 22) McBurnie 23) Griffiths

Thats what I think Clarke will go with. Possibly swap Hanley or Palmer with Hendry or another right sided CB. Possibly Forrest for Turnbull.

Rightly or wrongly, Forrest will be in every Scotland squad when fit. Every manager he's played under loves him, and I doubt Clarke is the exception.

Turnbull has some crazy stat right now that he has created more clear cut chances than any other u23 player in Europe this year. He is by miles the most creative in the SPFL as well. That is despite barely kicking a ball until December. There is no way Turnbull won't be included if he keeps it up.

As sad as it is, I think McLean will have to make way. Especially if McTominay gets put back into his rightful place in midfield.

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

Rightly or wrongly, Forrest will be in every Scotland squad when fit. Every manager he's played under loves him, and I doubt Clarke is the exception.

Turnbull has some crazy stat right now that he has created more clear cut chances than any other u23 player in Europe this year. He is by miles the most creative in the SPFL as well. That is despite barely kicking a ball until December. There is no way Turnbull won't be included if he keeps it up.

As sad as it is, I think McLean will have to make way. Especially if McTominay gets put back into his rightful place in midfield.

Turnbull wont replace McLean though as they play in different positions. As you have said Turnbull is an attacking mid so will be in competition with Christie, McGinn, Armstrong, Forrest and Fraser. I can only see him making the squad in place of 1 of those.

If Mctom comes into midfield then it will be another centre back required to backfill him.

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

Turnbull wont replace McLean though as they play in different positions. As you have said Turnbull is an attacking mid so will be in competition with Christie, McGinn, Armstrong, Forrest and Fraser. I can only see him making the squad in place of 1 of those.

If Mctom comes into midfield then it will be another centre back required to backfill him.

I would have Turnbull or Gauld ahead of Fraser. Fraser has done nothing at club level for nearly two years now.

[er yir macaroon]

2 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Turnbull wont replace McLean though as they play in different positions. As you have said Turnbull is an attacking mid so will be in competition with Christie, McGinn, Armstrong, Forrest and Fraser. I can only see him making the squad in place of 1 of those.

If Mctom comes into midfield then it will be another centre back required to backfill him.

This is over complicated. Christie, Fraser and Forrest are the support strikers, not midfielders. 

[Diamond Scot]

7 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

This is over complicated. Christie, Fraser and Forrest are the support strikers, not midfielders. 

Christie can play in midfield as the most forward of the 3 or as the support forward. Fraser and Forrest can probably only play the support forward.

My point about Turnbull is that if he is to get into the squad its probably in the same roles as Christie. At a push he could play the McGreggor role but he wont be considered for the Jack / McLean role. 

[Tartan blood]

2 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Turnbull wont replace McLean though as they play in different positions. As you have said Turnbull is an attacking mid so will be in competition with Christie, McGinn, Armstrong, Forrest and Fraser. I can only see him making the squad in place of 1 of those.

If Mctom comes into midfield then it will be another centre back required to backfill him.

I didn't say Turnbull would be a direct replacement for McLean. I'm not necessarily following a rigid quota of positions either. In my mind, McGinn and McTominay are CDMs (with flexibility) and are both preferable to McLean, as are Jack and McGregor. Armstrong could also play that position. That's potentially 5 players for 2 positions before including McLean.

Turnbull is a seperate dillemma to McLean. I think he is currently too good to leave out and Clarke should find a way to include him. The best way to do that is to bring along players that can play multiple positions in a crisis e.g McTom, McGinn, Jack, Tierney, Christie et al. 

Picking a 23 man squad is probably already giving Clarke night terrors.

[ProudScot]

I think McTominay playing at the back and Tierney playing centre back should be a good insight into how we will pick the best players available.

Don’t get too caught up into CDM, double pivot and all that shite.

All the good players will be there, the ones not so good won’t be.

Hopefully 🤪

[gkm_vancouver]

Barring any more injuries,  and if Tierney and Cooper recovers it looks increasingly unlikely there will be any more new faces to the last squad - if it stays at a 23. 

[AndyDD]

If Griffiths plays a decent amount and scores a decent amount in the last wee run of games then he might force himself back into contention, but him aside, you're either looking at Forrest if he comes back and maybe Gauld if Clarke decides to take a punt (I think the wish is the father of the thought, here). 

Might he have another look at Phillips, given he is playing a decent amount for West Brom of late? Tend to think he might not be overly bothered about getting a wide player in should he persist with the wing backs, but if we are going to bring a pacey attacker as back up to Fraser and Forrest doesn't make it, I'd rather Phillips than Burke. 

[Tartan blood]

15 hours ago, AndyDD said:

If Griffiths plays a decent amount and scores a decent amount in the last wee run of games then he might force himself back into contention, but him aside, you're either looking at Forrest if he comes back and maybe Gauld if Clarke decides to take a punt (I think the wish is the father of the thought, here). 

Might he have another look at Phillips, given he is playing a decent amount for West Brom of late? Tend to think he might not be overly bothered about getting a wide player in should he persist with the wing backs, but if we are going to bring a pacey attacker as back up to Fraser and Forrest doesn't make it, I'd rather Phillips than Burke. 

There are a few variables to weigh up. Game time vs ability vs experience vs form vs sharpness vs league level. You can rarely have them all.

Is the guy playing the most games the best player for that position? Not always. Griffiths and Forrest are better than Philips, for example, but lack game time and sharpness.

Gilmour is arguably one of our most talented players, but lacks experience and game time. Should we still pick him?

I think once you have the experience under your belt, game time and level is less important. Craig Gordon is playing at a lower level, but we know he is capable. Fraser hasn't had much game time this season, but still well worthy of a place in the team.

Clarke has a lot of dillemmas.

[AndyDD]

3 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

There are a few variables to weigh up. Game time vs ability vs experience vs form vs sharpness vs league level. You can rarely have them all.

Is the guy playing the most games the best player for that position? Not always. Griffiths and Forrest are better than Philips, for example, but lack game time and sharpness.

Gilmour is arguably one of our most talented players, but lacks experience and game time. Should we still pick him?

I think once you have the experience under your belt, game time and level is less important. Craig Gordon is playing at a lower level, but we know he is capable. Fraser hasn't had much game time this season, but still well worthy of a place in the team.

Clarke has a lot of dillemmas.

Definitely, yeah, it's very rarely a straightforward comparison. You look at Jack, who is not as good a footballer as McTominay or McGinn, who is not as good as Armstrong, but who will be so hugely missed because of the specific job he can do. Conversely, there are players who will be able to do a few jobs well who might therefore find themselves selected ahead of a player who can do one job very well. 

By and large, they are good dilemmas for Clarke to have, so there's some positivity to that. We aren't struggling, really, for players. We are perhaps struggling to find someone who can do what Jack does, but I think on the whole we're in decent shape across the XI. 

The formation doesn't tend make much use of wide midfielders so he might eschew the likes of Forrest and Phillips but I personally reckon they'd be useful to have, especially if we need to change it up. I'm not all that keen on Fraser being our only source of proper pace. 

 

[Third Lanark]

On 2/23/2021 at 5:18 PM, ceudmilefailte said:

I would have Turnbull or Gauld ahead of Fraser. Fraser has done nothing at club level for nearly two years now.

He's one of those players who sometimes plays better for their country than club. His recent scoring form for Scotland should see him keep his spot.

[ProudScot]

Turnbull, Gauld and Fraser sounds better 

[Dogbiscuit]

Griffiths has to be in the squad to face England! His presence would give us the sort of buzz that Faddy used to. And may plant a seed of worry in the England squad.

[Guest allyc]

4 hours ago, Dogbiscuit said:

Griffiths has to be in the squad to face England! His presence would give us the sort of buzz that Faddy used to. And may plant a seed of worry in the England squad.

🤣🤣🤣

[Shaundy]

I feel it’s a pleasant for us and a job for boss Clarke to whittle it down rather than scrape it together. 
The friendly games will be the final hurdle and reckoning for who is and isn’t fit , fingers crossed. Two contrasting games they will be . 
of the outsiders to selection I would really like to see Gilmour in the squad . Gauld is banging on the door with his form too. 

[Blantyre_Braveheart]

My 23 man squad 

GK - Marshall, Gordon, McLaughlin

RB - O'Donnell, Patterson

CB - Hanley, Hendry, Gallagher, McKenna

LB - Tierney, Robertson

CM - McTominay, McGinn, McGregor, Turnbull, Armstrong, Gauld

RM/LM - Forrest, Fraser

ST - Adams, Dykes, Christie, Nesbitt

 

If it goes to 27 man then Considine/Taylor, McLean/Fleck, Gilmour and Griffiths/Shankland

[Malcolm]

my starting line up would be

 

                          Gordon

patterson  Hanley Cooper tierney Robertson     
                  Mctominay  mcginn

  forest                 Dykes.                Fraser

[killiefaetheferry]

Dykes misses a penalty but then scores to pull a goal back to 2-1 Norwich. 6 in 6 😀

[Diamond Scot]

23 hours ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

My 23 man squad 

GK - Marshall, Gordon, McLaughlin

RB - O'Donnell, Patterson

CB - Hanley, Hendry, Gallagher, McKenna

LB - Tierney, Robertson

CM - McTominay, McGinn, McGregor, Turnbull, Armstrong, Gauld

RM/LM - Forrest, Fraser

ST - Adams, Dykes, Christie, Nesbitt

 

If it goes to 27 man then Considine/Taylor, McLean/Fleck, Gilmour and Griffiths/Shankland

I dont think you have enough defenders in there for a team that play a back 5. Although Mctom can clearly play CB.

I suspect Gauld, Forrest and Turnbull wont make it. McLean will defo go