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Euro 2020/21 squad discussion/general chat.


Tartan Chris

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5 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

It won’t be a dead rubber though as we would likely need a win to stand a chance of a World Cup playoff. I do expect Clarke to make a lot of changes though, even for the Slovakia game. 

Does winning the group not guarentee that or do you have to get most points of all group winners?

Think being pot 3 is enough for me for the world cup draw which I assume is all but a done deal now. With the momentum team is generating now 2nd place is very realistic if you can pull a weaker second seed e.g. not Italy or Portugal who sometimes crop up in category.

Back to the squad and of regulars of last 18 months I think Liam Palmer will miss out to give space to more attacking player. Clarke went with O'Donnell for the big one and he wasn't let down. Of course with his club appointing Pulis then Palmer's defensive stats will probably improve but I can see him missing out.

Interesting hardly anyone is putting in Paterson. I guess due to him being a late call up this time but he can cover a couple of positions as he shown in his career and you always need a utility player in the final squad.

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1 hour ago, COLT NY said:

I agree on McBurnie (although I'd certainly have Griff on ahead of him if available).

He's been frustratingly ineffective in his various appearances, but to his credit he showed some guts by stepping up to convert the 4th penalty. Can you imagine the pelters he'd have got if he missed it and that was us done? With the way things had been going for him it would have been easy for him to hide there. It shows to me that he has the self confidence needed to come good yet.

McBurnie looked much better in last round, was unlucky not to score v Czechs and other game (when he headed v bar).

What the other night showed is his hold up play is miles off Dykes. However he did come on as McGinn came off and then Christie went off two minutes later so there was no-one from midfield to link up anymore and it became a pure survival job in extra time.

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3 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

Does winning the group not guarentee that or do you have to get most points of all group winners?

Think being pot 3 is enough for me for the world cup draw which I assume is all but a done deal now. With the momentum team is generating now 2nd place is very realistic if you can pull a weaker second seed e.g. not Italy or Portugal who sometimes crop up in category.

Back to the squad and of regulars of last 18 months I think Liam Palmer will miss out to give space to more attacking player. Clarke went with O'Donnell for the big one and he wasn't let down. Of course with his club appointing Pulis then Palmer's defensive stats will probably improve but I can see him missing out.

Interesting hardly anyone is putting in Paterson. I guess due to him being a late call up this time but he can cover a couple of positions as he shown in his career and you always need a utility player in the final squad.

Best two group winners, who don't qualify directly, get a play-off spot.

 

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2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Best two group winners, who don't qualify directly, get a play-off spot.

 

Thanks.

It's tough to judge as we don't know which world cup groups all the winners will be in.

As I've said pretty much all 2nd place teams will also get play off place so I'd rather take my chances with the draw (in any case I think nations league group will be won regardless) as finishing 2nd in world cup group should be a realistic target given progress this year.

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19 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

Does winning the group not guarentee that or do you have to get most points of all group winners?

Think being pot 3 is enough for me for the world cup draw which I assume is all but a done deal now. With the momentum team is generating now 2nd place is very realistic if you can pull a weaker second seed e.g. not Italy or Portugal who sometimes crop up in category.

Back to the squad and of regulars of last 18 months I think Liam Palmer will miss out to give space to more attacking player. Clarke went with O'Donnell for the big one and he wasn't let down. Of course with his club appointing Pulis then Palmer's defensive stats will probably improve but I can see him missing out.

Interesting hardly anyone is putting in Paterson. I guess due to him being a late call up this time but he can cover a couple of positions as he shown in his career and you always need a utility player in the final squad.

There are only 2 playoff spots available via the Nations League. The two best NL group winners that don’t qualify or reach the playoffs via the qualifiers next year will be given a playoff spot. The more points we get the better chance we’ll have. 

You don’t want an extra chance of a playoff as long as we are pot 3? 🤔 Getting second place in our group next year will be tough from Pot 3. Getting a playoff from the Nations League will likely be out best chance of qualifying.

I don’t think Paterson was a late call up this time. I think that was last month. He’s really in the squad as cover for a number of positions but he might well see more game time in the next 2 matches. 

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21 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

Thanks.

It's tough to judge as we don't know which world cup groups all the winners will be in.

As I've said pretty much all 2nd place teams will also get play off place so I'd rather take my chances with the draw (in any case I think nations league group will be won regardless) as finishing 2nd in world cup group should be a realistic target given progress this year.

It’s not an either/or situation so you don’t need to pick which way you would take your chances with. We will still have a chance of qualifying outright or reaching the playoffs next year in the normal way but it would be good to give ourselves the chance of reaching the playoffs through the NL in case we don’t finish second in our group. 

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8 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

It’s not an either/or situation so you don’t need to pick which way you would take your chances with. We will still have a chance of qualifying outright or reaching the playoffs next year in the normal way but it would be good to give ourselves the chance of reaching the playoffs through the NL in case we don’t finish second in our group. 

Exactly. It would be great to have a play-off spot virtually sewn up before the WC2022 draw is even made. Takes a wee bit of pressure off.

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2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Exactly. It would be great to have a play-off spot virtually sewn up before the WC2022 draw is even made. Takes a wee bit of pressure off.

Agreed. Although I thought that last time and the qualifying campaign went tits up at the first hurdle. ☹️

Just as well we won our NL group in 2018. I’m not sure why anyone wouldn’t want to give ourselves the best chance of getting to the World Cup just so we can experiment against Israel. The proof of how valuable the NL has been for us was proven on Thursday night. 

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1 hour ago, Texas Pete said:

There are only 2 playoff spots available via the Nations League. The two best NL group winners that don’t qualify or reach the playoffs via the qualifiers next year will be given a playoff spot. The more points we get the better chance we’ll have. 

You don’t want an extra chance of a playoff as long as we are pot 3? 🤔 Getting second place in our group next year will be tough from Pot 3. Getting a playoff from the Nations League will likely be out best chance of qualifying.

I don’t think Paterson was a late call up this time. I think that was last month. He’s really in the squad as cover for a number of positions but he might well see more game time in the next 2 matches. 

There's 10 groups. Just looking at current world rankings (which will obviously be updated after these games) and current pot 2 options look like Poland, Sweden, Wales, Ukraine, Austria, Serbia, Turkey, Russia, ROI and Slovakia.

Some decent teams in there but don't think it would be impossible to finish above 5 of them. ROI would be great as they're in real transitional phase and really struggling to score goals, weaker than the 2016 group.

Would be even better if Iceland or Northern Ireland got into pot 2 but I doubt it given their recent results as those two will decline a fair bit now given how old their squads are.

Pot 3 isn't a terrible place to be. Also pleased Norway are in that section as they're one you'd want to avoid in future groups with Haaland and Odegaard.

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1 minute ago, Tartan Chris said:

There's 10 groups. Just looking at current world rankings (which will obviously be updated after these games) and current pot 2 options look like Poland, Sweden, Wales, Ukraine, Austria, Serbia, Turkey, Russia, ROI and Slovakia.

Some decent teams in there but don't think it would be impossible to finish above 5 of them. ROI would be great as they're in real transitional phase and really struggling to score goals, weaker than the 2016 group.

Would be even better if Iceland or Northern Ireland got into pot 2 but I doubt it given their recent results as those two will decline a fair bit now given how old their squads are.

Pot 3 isn't a terrible place to be. Also pleased Norway are in that section as they're one you'd want to avoid in future groups with Haaland and Odegaard.

Pot 3 isn’t terrible (it’s a damn sight better that pot 4) but you need to have a great campaign to finish better than 3rd. If we win our next 2 games we will more or less guaranteed a playoff before a ball is kicked in the qualifiers. 

That would hopefully take a bit of pressure off us and we can perform with freedom in the qualifiers. 

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17 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Unfortunately, sometimes you cannot fit all your best players into the side. No point trying to shoe-horn them in as it ruins the balance/shape of the side but does leave you with a strong bench. Christie or Fraser vying for spot alongside Dykes. Forrest third in pecking order or perhaps used should McGinn be injured.

 

So far would have Christie miles before Fraser. 

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4 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Pot 3 isn’t terrible (it’s a damn sight better that pot 4) but you need to have a great campaign to finish better than 3rd. If we win our next 2 games we will more or less guaranteed a playoff before a ball is kicked in the qualifiers. 

That would hopefully take a bit of pressure off us and we can perform with freedom in the qualifiers. 

Is there not the possibility that if we win these next two games against Slovakia and the Czechs that we could potentially scrape into pot 2 for the WC qualifiers? 

Guess it probably depends on those countries who currently sit above us in the rankings. But I see the likes of Slovakia, Iceland and Northern Ireland all rank above us at present. All of whom have had some poor results of late. 

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19 minutes ago, Hertfordshire Scot said:

Is there not the possibility that if we win these next two games against Slovakia and the Czechs that we could potentially scrape into pot 2 for the WC qualifiers? 

Guess it probably depends on those countries who currently sit above us in the rankings. But I see the likes of Slovakia, Iceland and Northern Ireland all rank above us at present. All of whom have had some poor results of late. 

I’m not 100% sure. I know that we could have scraped into pot 2 if we had beaten Serbia in 90 minutes and won our last 2 games but we would have needed other results to go our way. Whether or not that’s still possible I’m not sure. Very unlikely to happen anyway even if it is possible. 

Good news is we will be pot 2 for the next Euros qualifiers if we win our NL group assuming UEFA use the same criteria as last time. 

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Christie played excellent on Thursday, but you know who played excellent against the Czech Republic? Ryan Fraser.  We need both of them, and neither is MILES ahead of the other.  Christie has had some average games for us and so too has Fraser. 

McBurnie has his uses, along with Nisbet, Shankland, Griffiths along with the Dingo Warrior Dykes would be our attackers.  I would look at Nisbet in either some pre-tournament friendlies or some World Cup qualifiers against lower ranked teams.  Shankland has started slow, so at some point give the lad some encouragement to go improve his domestic form - let him know in a constructive way he needs form, and heck even McBurnie for that matter.  Oli Burke's pace is useful but expendable.  

I just looked at we only had a 22 man squad for France 98 - not large at all.

FYI - Gilmour doesn't just walk into our squad, he needs to be fit and playing better than alternatives, and we probably should bring him into a qualifier or two and some pre-tournament friendlies before deciding for certain.  

So players on the fringes - Nisbet, Gilmour, Porteous, R McCrorie, Gordon, McLaughlin, Bain, Johnny Russell, Lewis Morgan, Danny Wilson, Ryan Gauld, Hickey, Liam Henderson, Hornby - I could really only see 5 of these names making it AT TOPS with 2 of them being keepers, I think the player right now with the strongest chance is Lewis Morgan. 

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2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

See if you are in league A of the nations league and you don't qualify for the WC playoffs via the groups or qualify directly do you get a playoff spot for just being in league A. 

No. The top 2 NL group winners that don’t finish in the top 2 of their qualifying group will earn a playoff spot. 

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17 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

No. The top 2 NL group winners that don’t finish in the top 2 of their qualifying group will earn a playoff spot. 

There's more than 2 NL group winners. There's four in league A alone. Why did Ireland get a play off place for the euros when they finished last in their group. 

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7 hours ago, romanticscot said:

Christie played excellent on Thursday, but you know who played excellent against the Czech Republic? Ryan Fraser.  We need both of them, and neither is MILES ahead of the other.  Christie has had some average games for us and so too has Fraser. 

McBurnie has his uses, along with Nisbet, Shankland, Griffiths along with the Dingo Warrior Dykes would be our attackers.  I would look at Nisbet in either some pre-tournament friendlies or some World Cup qualifiers against lower ranked teams.  Shankland has started slow, so at some point give the lad some encouragement to go improve his domestic form - let him know in a constructive way he needs form, and heck even McBurnie for that matter.  Oli Burke's pace is useful but expendable.  

I just looked at we only had a 22 man squad for France 98 - not large at all.

FYI - Gilmour doesn't just walk into our squad, he needs to be fit and playing better than alternatives, and we probably should bring him into a qualifier or two and some pre-tournament friendlies before deciding for certain.  

So players on the fringes - Nisbet, Gilmour, Porteous, R McCrorie, Gordon, McLaughlin, Bain, Johnny Russell, Lewis Morgan, Danny Wilson, Ryan Gauld, Hickey, Liam Henderson, Hornby - I could really only see 5 of these names making it AT TOPS with 2 of them being keepers, I think the player right now with the strongest chance is Lewis Morgan. 

I’d take Naismith over McBurnie. He could have held the ball up in the last 10 minutes with much greater success than McBurnie. 

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8 hours ago, romanticscot said:

So players on the fringes - Nisbet, Gilmour, Porteous, R McCrorie, Gordon, McLaughlin, Bain, Johnny Russell, Lewis Morgan, Danny Wilson, Ryan Gauld, Hickey, Liam Henderson, Hornby - I could really only see 5 of these names making it AT TOPS with 2 of them being keepers, I think the player right now with the strongest chance is Lewis Morgan. 

I don't think there is anyone who regards Danny Wilson or Liam Henderson as being "on the fringes". They are million miles from selection. There are about half a dozen players ahead of each of them who aren't even in the current squad.

Fraser and Christie's recent performances have also significantly diminished any hopes Morgan and Russell had of getting back into the team.

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2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

There's more than 2 NL group winners. There's four in league A alone. Why did Ireland get a play off place for the euros when they finished last in their group. 

Its a different format for the World Cup. There will be an expectation that the 4 league A group winners will finish top 2 in their main qualification group. 
 

Thats why is important we try and pick up at least 4 points, ideally 6 from these two games to be best ranked League B side so we are 5th in line.

Its detailed here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_–_UEFA_Second_Round

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3 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

There's more than 2 NL group winners. There's four in league A alone. Why did Ireland get a play off place for the euros when they finished last in their group. 

I think you guys might be talking about two different things. 

This year's Nations League only provides two playoff spots for WC22.

The previous Nations League provided 16 playoff spots for EURO20/21.

 

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5 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

There's more than 2 NL group winners. There's four in league A alone. Why did Ireland get a play off place for the euros when they finished last in their group. 

The Euros and the World Cup are two completely different tournaments. 24 teams play at the Euros and only 13 European teams go to the World Cup. 

There were 8 playoff places available through the 2018 NL and only 2 this time. 

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21 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

Interesting hardly anyone is putting in Paterson. I guess due to him being a late call up this time but he can cover a couple of positions as he shown in his career and you always need a utility player in the final squad.

Paterson still needs to lose a fair bit of weight. We're well into the season now and he's still carrying it. That's very unprofessional.

True he can play four positions (right back, right midfield, central midfield and striker) but has he ever mastered any position ? I don't think he has.

Twelve months from now I don't think Paterson will be in the squad .

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