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Scottish players in action 20/21


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3 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

Clarke was just saying that he doesn't understand the clamour to bring in lots of new faces. That the WC qualifiers is not the right time to do it. He also said that Gilmour, for example, has 15 years ahead of him to break into the squad.

That's quite disheartening to hear. I'm perfectly happy with the lotalty aspect, but not at the expense of better players.

Turnbull, for instance, won young player of the year and has been a stand out performer for months. Although only 21, he has shown that he is ready for the step up. Gilmour is lacking game time, but we can all see that he is more than ready to be called upon regardless of the opposition. 

Just coming back to this post...I wonder when Clarke does think the right time is?

We have these three matches (personally think Faroes could be a good game to have new players on the bench).

Then we go into pre-Euro 2020 friendlies.  Is that the time? I can't imagine Euro 2020 group matches is ideal.

Then we have WC qualifiers in September, October and November.  

I'm not even sure what matches will be played in March 2022.  Nations League? Do we have to wait that long?

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Just now, PASTA Mick said:

Just coming back to this post...I wonder when Clarke does think the right time is?

We have these three matches (personally think Faroes could be a good game to have new players on the bench).

Then we go into pre-Euro 2020 friendlies.  Is that the time? I can't imagine Euro 2020 group matches is ideal.

Then we have WC qualifiers in September, October and November.  

I'm not even sure what matches will be played in March 2022.  Nations League? Do we have to wait that long?

Precisely PASTA Mick.

I made this point before in that international football has changed a lot with the introduction of the Nations League and friendlies now almost as rare as an Oli McBurnie goal for Scotland. Friendlies were normally the matches to try out these up and coming players but those opportunities are so few and far between now. About 90% of Scotland matches are now competitive but we must blood youngsters at some time.

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I agree that we shouldnt be chucking untried players into games like Austria however would there really be any issue subbing on Aaron Hickey for Stephen Odonnell with 30 mins remaining in a match against the Faroes assuming we are winning at the time?

Why players like Considine or Taylor are in the squad is beyond me. For Taylor to get gametime both Robertson and Tierney would have to get injured. He cant play anywhere except LB and doesnt have the potential to hold down that position in his career. Hickey could challenge for RWB now and its reasonable to say that in a couple if years time the position will be held down by either him or Paterson. Get them in and exposed asap.

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48 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I agree that we shouldnt be chucking untried players into games like Austria however would there really be any issue subbing on Aaron Hickey for Stephen Odonnell with 30 mins remaining in a match against the Faroes assuming we are winning at the time?

Why players like Considine or Taylor are in the squad is beyond me. For Taylor to get gametime both Robertson and Tierney would have to get injured. He cant play anywhere except LB and doesnt have the potential to hold down that position in his career. Hickey could challenge for RWB now and its reasonable to say that in a couple if years time the position will be held down by either him or Paterson. Get them in and exposed asap.

Also, the first step is getting them in the squad and seeing how well they fit in.

He could have easily included Hickey, Patterson, Gauld, Turnbull and Gilmour without even having to drop any of the others.  

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7 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

Also, the first step is getting them in the squad and seeing how well they fit in.

He could have easily included Hickey, Patterson, Gauld, Turnbull and Gilmour without even having to drop any of the others.  

Totally agree 

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4 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Exactly.

When did Michael Owen make his debut for England? I think he may have been 17. Darren Fletcher was similar. And look at how well Wales have done bedding in youngsters with potential in to their squad even prior to having buckets load of club football experience.

If memory serves, Glenn Hoddle was reluctant to cap Michael Owen at first, preferring experienced strikers like Les Ferdinand and Alan Shearer, much to the exasperation of the English media. 

I don't think Owen even played in any of their qualifiers for France 98, and it's only when his club form made it virtually impossible for Hoddle to ignore him that he belatedly selected him. By this point Owen was a regular for Liverpool and had scored about 20 goals that season.

Billy Gilmour is definitely a talent but he's anything but a regular for Chelsea.  That said, I can't see the harm in including him in the squad even just to have a look at him in training.

Edited by scotlad
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46 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

Also, the first step is getting them in the squad and seeing how well they fit in.

He could have easily included Hickey, Patterson, Gauld, Turnbull and Gilmour without even having to drop any of the others.  

Whilst I agree with most of this sentiment, I really think we have go trust Clarke at this juncture. In the short tern can Patterson be better then O'Donnell, can Gilmour or Gauld be more effective than the current midfield. I ma not sure so pass over to the more experienced and knowledge Sir Steve.

The under 21 tournament is also starting this week and although we should have qualified, the harsh reality is we didn't, most of the players mentioned in this thread were complicit in this failure. So big question is, are they ready?

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3 hours ago, PASTA Mick said:

Just coming back to this post...I wonder when Clarke does think the right time is?

We have these three matches (personally think Faroes could be a good game to have new players on the bench).

Then we go into pre-Euro 2020 friendlies.  Is that the time? I can't imagine Euro 2020 group matches is ideal.

Then we have WC qualifiers in September, October and November.  

I'm not even sure what matches will be played in March 2022.  Nations League? Do we have to wait that long?

It is a bit concerning that Clarke is clearly only looking at short term benefits. Like, "what's the point in bringing in Gilmour if he can't help me immediately". Maybe that is being a bit harsh on Clarke, but that is how I'm seeing it. I hope it's not a hint to where he sees his future.

We are now down to a 25 man squad, which is potentially a smaller squad than the Euros will allow. Surely Clarke could have seen Jack's pullout coming. Let's see who will be called up (if anyone).

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I'm just wondering whether the squad being kept compact is just to reduce covid risks.   We've seen other countries come a cropper.   If everyone is in the squad, the whole lot could get wiped out.

Edited by Grim Jim
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34 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

It is a bit concerning that Clarke is clearly only looking at short term benefits. Like, "what's the point in bringing in Gilmour if he can't help me immediately". Maybe that is being a bit harsh on Clarke, but that is how I'm seeing it. I hope it's not a hint to where he sees his future.

We are now down to a 25 man squad, which is potentially a smaller squad than the Euros will allow. Surely Clarke could have seen Jack's pullout coming. Let's see who will be called up (if anyone).

I think if he calls up Graeme Shinnie we'll know were we stand

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4 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

It's Graeme Shinnie or Ross McCrorie. Shinnie, for me. He's been one of Derby's best players this season.

McTominay is not a defensive midfielder.

If none of those, play Jack Hendry as the anchorman. 

McTominay is also not a RCB. Jack Hendry, as far as I know, has never played midfield. He should be in defence.

McTominay, McGregor, Fleck, McGinn and even Armstrong can play DCM. It might not be their ideal position but Clarke has proven that he is perfectly happy playing his best players out of position.

I really hope Turnbull or Gauld are called up, but I can't see it.

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14 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

McTominay is also not a RCB. Jack Hendry, as far as I know, has never played midfield. He should be in defence.

McTominay, McGregor, Fleck, McGinn and even Armstrong can play DCM. It might not be their ideal position but Clarke has proven that he is perfectly happy playing his best players out of position.

I really hope Turnbull or Gauld are called up, but I can't see it.

Hendry has the skillset to play as an anchorman. We need someone with defensive capabilities to play there.

All of them play in a double-pivot for their clubs, but usually alongside real defensive midfielders (apart from Fred). If we played, for example, Fleck and McGregor, against Austria would probably tear them apart.

We need balance.

It's weird, as a nation we seem to produce players for one specific position at a time, first it was left backs, now it's attacking midfielders.

Edited by Taylor1996
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Guest Scot1

id argue McGinn is the best fit for the role. McGinn and McTominay in midfield for me, one can go forward while the other sits. More often than not McTominay would be the one going box-box but id allow McGinn to venture forward and McTominay to sit when play dictates

Also i want these two playing together in the middle of the park as soon as possible, its my belief that these two alongside Gilmour are the future of our team in the midfield area for to come

Edited by Scot1
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9 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

id argue McGinn is the best fit for the role. McGinn and McTominay in midfield for me, one can go forward while the other sits. More often than not McTominay would be the one going box-box but id allow McGinn to venture forward and McTominay to sit when play dictates

Also i want these two playing together in the middle of the park as soon as possible, its my belief that these two alongside Gilmour are the future of our team in the midfield area for to come

Totally agree.. McTominay and Mcginn playing in their positions for their clubs. That would leave Christie, Fraser and Armstrong competing for the 2 places to support the striker. 

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14 hours ago, scotlad said:

If memory serves, Glenn Hoddle was reluctant to cap Michael Owen at first, preferring experienced strikers like Les Ferdinand and Alan Shearer, much to the exasperation of the English media. 

I don't think Owen even played in any of their qualifiers for France 98, and it's only when his club form made it virtually impossible for Hoddle to ignore him that he belatedly selected him. By this point Owen was a regular for Liverpool and had scored about 20 goals that season.

Billy Gilmour is definitely a talent but he's anything but a regular for Chelsea.  That said, I can't see the harm in including him in the squad even just to have a look at him in training.

However, people want to argue it look at Wales as a template. I have lost count the amount of youngsters they have capped with potential - some before they have even played club football and it has done them no harm whatsoever. They have chucked in youngsters at Liverpool and Arsenal for example right into the national side in their teens and who are now an important part of that squad. Sorry to be blunt here but McLean, Palmer, Taylor and maybe even Fleck (who I do like) are never ever going to be key squad players for us and all of whom I cannot see starting any of the three games coming up for us. They will be benchwarmers. Lets see now who would fans feel more happy sitting on the bench? Gilmour, Turnbull and Gauld or McLean, Fleck and Taylor? It really isn't rocket science.

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24 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

However, people want to argue it look at Wales as a template. I have lost count the amount of youngsters they have capped with potential - some before they have even played club football and it has done them no harm whatsoever. They have chucked in youngsters at Liverpool and Arsenal for example right into the national side in their teens and who are now an important part of that squad. Sorry to be blunt here but McLean, Palmer, Taylor and maybe even Fleck (who I do like) are never ever going to be key squad players for us and all of whom I cannot see starting any of the three games coming up for us. They will be benchwarmers. Lets see now who would fans feel more happy sitting on the bench? Gilmour, Turnbull and Gauld or McLean, Fleck and Taylor? It really isn't rocket science.

Don’t think we need Taylor but I would definitely have fleck and McLean.
 

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