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Scottish players in action 20/21


romanticscot

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1 minute ago, Malcolm said:

If he’s decent next season, might get a move to a top EPL side and hopefully we can see him develop in to a top player.  File under one for the future for me.

Why wait until next season ? He's good enough now.

Should we do what Craig Brown foolishly did and wait until a talented players is twenty six or twenty seven until we give them their debuts ? 

Other countries (look at Wales) throw their best young prospects in at the deep end and reap the benefits. We should follow their example.

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1 minute ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Why wait until next season ? He's good enough now.

Should we do what Craig Brown foolishly did and wait until a talented players is twenty six or twenty seven until we give them their debuts ? 

Other countries (look at Wales) throw their best young prospects in at the deep end and reap the benefits. We should follow their example.


if he was as good as you suggest he would be playing at Liverpool or Chelsea.  The reality is that bossing a game against st mirren is meaningless.   We are in the fortunate position where our midfield three may well soon be made up of top EPL players, eg gilmour, mctominay and Mcginn.  
 

for spl players to feature they will need to be regular stand outs both in the spl and Europe.  I’m sure turnbull will get his chance in cfriendly or as a sub,  he looks a good prospect.  He isn’t playing at a level to justify putting him in the team.

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9 minutes ago, Malcolm said:


if he was as good as you suggest he would be playing at Liverpool or Chelsea.  The reality is that bossing a game against st mirren is meaningless.   We are in the fortunate position where our midfield three may well soon be made up of top EPL players, eg gilmour, mctominay and Mcginn.  
 

for spl players to feature they will need to be regular stand outs both in the spl and Europe.  I’m sure turnbull will get his chance in cfriendly or as a sub,  he looks a good prospect.  He isn’t playing at a level to justify putting him in the team.

This has nothing to do with the club Turnbull plays for does it just to be clear ? I know that there are still a few sad people out there who don't want any Celtic players involved.

Should Ryan Jack be dropped for "bossing it" against the likes of Ross County or Kilmarnock ? No, he shouldn't. In fact Jack and Turnbull should be playing together for Scotland at the Euros and I expect they will.

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3 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

This has nothing to do with the club Turnbull plays for does it just to be clear ? I know that there are still a few sad people out there who don't want any Celtic players involved.

Should Ryan Jack be dropped for "bossing it" against the likes of Ross County or Kilmarnock ? No, he shouldn't. In fact Jack and Turnbull should be playing together for Scotland at the Euros and I expect they will.

Who do you drop though? 

Assuming both are starting*

Edited by ParisInAKilt
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Just now, ErsatzThistle said:

This has nothing to do with the club Turnbull plays for does it just to be clear ? I know that there are still a few sad people out there who don't want any Celtic players involved.

Should Ryan Jack be dropped for "bossing it" against the likes of Ross County or Kilmarnock ? No, he shouldn't. In fact Jack and Turnbull should be playing together for Scotland at the Euros and I expect they will.

it does have to do what club he plays for as that dictates the level he is playing at.  I would argue that Jacks position will also come under threat if gilmour secures regular first team slot for Chelsea. If however, jack is outstanding in the champions league taking rangers far in the competition that might secure his place.

I will be astounded if turnbull plays in the euros, certainly based a first pick.  I’m assuming you would drop mcgregor and play Mcginn, turnbull and jack?  Do you see mctominay in a midfield role?

 

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10 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Who do you drop though? 

Assuming both are starting*

Give McGinn a rest (and there will be games where it is advisable to rest him) and play Turnbull. Bring McGinn on as a sub for Turnbull.

Play McGinn the next game and bring Turnbull on as a sub for McGinn.

We have a lot of games this year so squad rotation is inevitable.

8 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

it does have to do what club he plays for as that dictates the level he is playing at.  I would argue that Jacks position will also come under threat if gilmour secures regular first team slot for Chelsea. If however, jack is outstanding in the champions league taking rangers far in the competition that might secure his place.

I will be astounded if turnbull plays in the euros, certainly based a first pick.  I’m assuming you would drop mcgregor and play Mcginn, turnbull and jack?  Do you see mctominay in a midfield role?

Turnbull was very good for Celtic in Europe but you keep ignoring that.

You didn't give a reason why we shouldn't follow other nations getting success from throwing in young talent. Or should we stick to our miserable, conservative Scottish ways ? 

No, I expect McTominay to remain at the back for at least the next half a dozen games. 

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The speed that Turnball is progressing, there's no doubt in my mind that Turnbull will be in the squad for the Euros, as well as the WC qualifiers.

I've said it before, but he reminds me of Gary McAllister. The way that he strikes the ball and his aura when he's on the pitch.

Add Turnbull, McTominay and Gilmour to the mix, we could have a special midfield.

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Btw it's good to see Liam Kelly back in action. He could have stayed at QPR playing leisurely reserve team kickabouts and sitting on the first team bench but instead actively sought first team football on loan at Motherwell. We can consider him again.

If the lower leagues are cancelled (which might just happen) then Craig Gordon won't be match fit and we'll have to find other goalies. 

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5 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Give McGinn a rest (and there will be games where it is advisable to rest him) and play Turnbull. Bring McGinn on as a sub for Turnbull.

Play McGinn the next game and bring Turnbull on as a sub for McGinn.

We have a lot of games this year so squad rotation is inevitable.

Yeah absolutely and Turnbull does seem to have something about him, he’ll probably play at a higher level as well 

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1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Yeah absolutely and Turnbull does seem to have something about him, he’ll probably play at a higher level as well 


I think that this is the point.  If he has ambition he will move to a bigger club than Celtic. Given the talent in midfield he will need to do this to get himself up the pecking order for Scotland.

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6 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Btw it's good to see Liam Kelly back in action. He could have stayed at QPR playing leisurely reserve team kickabouts and sitting on the first team bench but instead actively sought first team football on loan at Motherwell. We can consider him again.

If the lower leagues are cancelled (which might just happen) then Craig Gordon won't be match fit and we'll have to find other goalies. 


i don’t think the championship will be cancelled. Lower leagues than that then yes.

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7 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Give McGinn a rest (and there will be games where it is advisable to rest him) and play Turnbull. Bring McGinn on as a sub for Turnbull.

Play McGinn the next game and bring Turnbull on as a sub for McGinn.

We have a lot of games this year so squad rotation is inevitable.

Turnbull was very good for Celtic in Europe but you keep ignoring that.

You didn't give a reason why we shouldn't follow other nations getting success from throwing in young talent. Or should we stick to our miserable, conservative Scottish ways ? 

No, I expect McTominay to remain at the back for at least the next half a dozen games. 


im completely for playing young talent.  If turnbull was 16 and running the show for Bayern Munich I would say play him.  He has just broken in to a not very good Celtic team that plays at a mediocre level.  If he was that good he would be at a bigger club.  I didn’t see Barca, Liverpool, or juventus queuing up to sign him... he was good for Motherwell last season so why now? He’s not proving himself at a higher level aside from the odd game in Europe.

hopefully he will go on and star in a bigger team like Mcginn has done and push his claim for a starting jersey.

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8 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Why wait until next season ? He's good enough now.

Should we do what Craig Brown foolishly did and wait until a talented players is twenty six or twenty seven until we give them their debuts ? 

Other countries (look at Wales) throw their best young prospects in at the deep end and reap the benefits. We should follow their example.

Wales do play their youngsters but do they take the place of players as talented as John mcginn?

Do they become mainstays in the wales lineup?

Are they picked because wales have a smaller pool of players than us? I'm not sure it's a like for like comparison with wales. 

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1 hour ago, Malcolm said:


im completely for playing young talent.  If turnbull was 16 and running the show for Bayern Munich I would say play him.  He has just broken in to a not very good Celtic team that plays at a mediocre level.  If he was that good he would be at a bigger club.  I didn’t see Barca, Liverpool, or juventus queuing up to sign him... he was good for Motherwell last season so why now? He’s not proving himself at a higher level aside from the odd game in Europe.

hopefully he will go on and star in a bigger team like Mcginn has done and push his claim for a starting jersey.

By this logic, Robertson, McGinn and Tierney wouldn't have been capped until they got their big moves. Even at St Mirren you could tell McGinn was going to be playing at a much higher level. All players take different routes to the top.

Turnbull can, and probably will, play at a higher level, but that doesn't mean we should wait until he does.

No disrespect to McGregor and Kent, but they are at their appropriate level. Which means neither should be undroppable. I'd happily play McTominay and McGinn in their positions, which would free up a spot for Turnbull. Then have 1 of either Christie or Fraser as the 2nd striker.

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Turnbull has been playing really well but as Malcolm says he is trying to break into an area where we are really strong.

Theres no point comparring him to Jack or McLean as they are defensive mids. 

For Turnbull to get into the squad / team then he needs to be a better option than McGinn, McGregor, Armstrong, Fleck and Gilmour.

Currently id have him ahead of Gilmour purely because Gilmour isnt playing. McGregor hasnt been his best for Celtic and Fleck has been poor this season so theres an argument that he could take either of those places. He isnt anywhere near the standard of McGinn or Armstrong atm. 

I think its likely that Turnbull will make the squad for the next batch of games but making a 23 man squad is going to be difficult.

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Fleck has been playing well for months, I don’t think it’s fair to count him out of the equation. 

Turnbull, Gauld & Hendry must all the close to a call up now though.

It’s a great problem to have tbh and it’s also good to see Turnbull so quickly become Celtics main man. 

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37 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Turnbull has been playing really well but as Malcolm says he is trying to break into an area where we are really strong.

Theres no point comparring him to Jack or McLean as they are defensive mids. 

For Turnbull to get into the squad / team then he needs to be a better option than McGinn, McGregor, Armstrong, Fleck and Gilmour.

Currently id have him ahead of Gilmour purely because Gilmour isnt playing. McGregor hasnt been his best for Celtic and Fleck has been poor this season so theres an argument that he could take either of those places. He isnt anywhere near the standard of McGinn or Armstrong atm. 

I think its likely that Turnbull will make the squad for the next batch of games but making a 23 man squad is going to be difficult.

I think we need to remind ourselves why McGinn is playing an attacking midfield role. At the time, we were struggling for creativity, and he came out of nowhere to provide that. But at the end of the day, his best position is CM. It shouldn't be a given that he continues playing as an attacking midfielder. 

Same goes for McTominay. He played at CB at a time where our options looked extremely weak. 

McTominay and McGinn are superior to McGregor and Kent in the central midfield slots. If you play them there, that then gives you the option to play 2 of Christie, Fraser, or Turnbull. 

McGregor and Kent would be on my bench.

Edited by Tartan blood
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2 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think we need to remind ourselves why McGinn is playing am attacking midfield role. At the time, we were struggling for creativity, and he came out of nowhere to provide that. But at the end of the day, his best position is CM. It shouldn't be a given that he continues playing as an attacking midfielder. 

Same goes for McTominay. He played at CB at a time where our options looked extremely weak. 

McTominay and McGinn are superior to McGregor and Kent in the central midfield slots. That then gives you the option to play 2 of Christie, Fraser, or Turnbull. 

Kent? 
 

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Turnbull defo needs to be in the next squad. He's competing mostly with Christie and Armstrong for that attacking midfield role. If Christie plays as a second striker to dykes then Turnbull will only have Armstrong and maybe mcginn as competition for that position. We are also playing three games in March and we will need squad rotation so Turnbull should hopefully get his first cap during the wc qualifiers. 

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11 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Turnbull defo needs to be in the next squad. He's competing mostly with Christie and Armstrong for that attacking midfield role. If Christie plays as a second striker to dykes then Turnbull will only have Armstrong and maybe mcginn as competition for that position. We are also playing three games in March and we will need squad rotation so Turnbull should hopefully get his first cap during the wc qualifiers. 


if we play the same 3-5-2  (or 3-4-1-2) we have been playing recently then he is competing with Mcginn and Armstrong for the ‘1’ position and behind both.  His best chance is if we play 3-6-1 (3-4-2-1) with the box in central midfield where there are 2 spots up for grabs although you could argue that Fraser or Christie could play a bit deeper in one of those.

Edited by Malcolm
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4 hours ago, Malcolm said:


I think that this is the point.  If he has ambition he will move to a bigger club than Celtic. Given the talent in midfield he will need to do this to get himself up the pecking order for Scotland.

Sure, a good full season with Celtic and that will hopefully be an option but he can still be an important player for us in the meantime assuming he gets a chance and plays well. 

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