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A "Supporting Scotland" thread: A case study in optimism and positivity


Taylor1996

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3 hours ago, Malcolm said:

To be fair, I don’t think that our recent improvement in results is necessarily entirely down to a 3 in the back formation.  I’m not sure you will be able to prove causality here!

Yes, we won.  Yes our second half performance was decent.  on the downside it was often fairly turgid footbal.  We managed one shot on target in two games.
 

I’m happy to go with the plan which seems to be make us tough to beat and take it from there. Let’s see what happens going forward.

 

 

It's definitely because of the 3. More numbers = less gaps.

Are people forgetting about losing 3-0 to Kazakhstan, over a year ago? Kazakhstan scored 4 against us in 2 matches. How about beating failing to keep a clean sheet against Cyprus twice? Losing 13 goals in 4 matches?

We weren't exactly solid with a four.

In our previous two matches we're conceded zero chances.

Our football will improve.

 

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2 hours ago, Rolling hIlls said:

You have to play with the hand you are dealt.  Souness, Dalglish, Jordan won feck all either for Scotland.  Heartbreak hotel with the odd win.  But certainly I trust Clarke in setting up a team formation.  Even if we get beat I would still keep him for at least he decides to pack in.  And get Strachan back to help.  Should have kept with him IMO.  But things are what they are.  Both guys are football and Scotland men through and through.  Positivity 👍

Yep.

But Clarke has definitely stumbled onto something. I mean, not conceded a chance for 2 matches?! That never really happens unless we play San Marino or the Faroe Islands.

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1 minute ago, Taylor1996 said:

Yep.

But Clarke has definitely stumbled onto something. I mean, not conceded a chance for 2 matches?! That never really happens unless we play San Marino or the Faroe Islands.

Always preferred a 4-4-2 myself but see where you are coming from.  If footballers are trained and good enough they can play in any 'system'.  Same as McTominay or Robertson in different positions.  You play your best team and best players.  Not the best system IMO.  Grew up when the Largs Mafia (where are they now?) were telling us to play zonal marking!!  A load of pish but that is what kids in Scotland were getting taught.

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1 minute ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Always preferred a 4-4-2 myself but see where you are coming from.  If footballers are trained and good enough they can play in any 'system'.  Same as McTominay or Robertson in different positions.  You play your best team and best players.  Not the best system IMO.  Grew up when the Largs Mafia (where are they now?) were telling us to play zonal marking!!  A load of pish but that is what kids in Scotland were getting taught.

Agreed.

McTominay played as a striker for Manchester United u18s.

That's yet another thing that I was mocked about. My insistence that players can adapt to other positions. Should've seen the reaction when I said that Tierney playing in a back three. Chimps tea-party, comes to mind.

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2 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Agreed.

McTominay played as a striker for Manchester United u18s.

That's yet another thing that I was mocked about. My insistence that players can adapt to other positions. Should've seen the reaction when I said that Tierney playing in a back three. Chimps tea-party, comes to mind.

It had already happened before you suggested it. I understand your need to justify your comments in response to some over the top tirades against you, but in balance, does every one of your posts need to be about you? It’s so draining. 

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I was looking over our historical results, and we had a 7 game unbeaten spell that ended in 2017, but to go back to a spell of unbeaten in 7 which had no friendlies, we have to go back to a run in 96/97 which began with our win over Switzerland at EURO 96 and ended with a 2-0 win against Austria at France 98 qualification.  We had another 7 game spell earlier in the 90's - March 95 to September 95 to be exact.  We had two 9 game unbeaten spells in the 70's, we are grinding out important results.

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6 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

I was looking over our historical results, and we had a 7 game unbeaten spell that ended in 2017, but to go back to a spell of unbeaten in 7 which had no friendlies, we have to go back to a run in 96/97 which began with our win over Switzerland at EURO 96 and ended with a 2-0 win against Austria at France 98 qualification.  We had another 7 game spell earlier in the 90's - March 95 to September 95 to be exact.  We had two 9 game unbeaten spells in the 70's, we are grinding out important results.

How did our unbeaten run end with a win against Austria?!? 🤷🏻‍♂️
Do you mean we lost our next game?

Edited by McTeeko
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Just now, romanticscot said:

Yes we lost the next game, it included the final win, that would have been a better way to say that.  

Got you now 👍🏼
My first away game (well, overseas) was the Sweden game in the Ullevi, that must be the game you refer to as we only lost one game that campaign. 

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8 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

The shit that I received, for x amount of time, I have every right.

Funny. I don't see anyone mocking my obsession over a three at the back system now. Turns out, yes, "I WAS right all along".

Whether we beat Serbia or not is immaterial. As I said, all along, it's about the big picture and it's about the process.

:lol:  I don't know why you didn't just call the thread "I WAS right all along", and spare us the pretence it was about anything else!

Edited by exile
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4 hours ago, romanticscot said:

So here's a question, if we defend better, can we afford have a player like a Kris Boyd or a peak Jordan Rhodes?  

I'm not sure we have anyone like that. Nevertheless, I don't think so. We aren't good enough to carry played that don't work hard. 

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On 10/13/2020 at 1:18 AM, Taylor1996 said:

It is.

I've never claimed otherwise that I would've wished anything for Scotland to play with a three. Yes, even defeat.

Same as i'd wish anything for Scotland to be independent.

You’re on record saying the playoffs didn’t matter and now you’re on here after we win the semi final claiming others are negative. You’ve some brass neck on you. 

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15 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

You’re on record saying the playoffs didn’t matter and now you’re on here after we win the semi final claiming others are negative. You’ve some brass neck on you. 

I am on record saying that I'm not interested in the playoffs... WHEN it looked like we were stuck to the idea of playing with a four. And that being the case, we would have had 0% chance.

That being the case, I was disinterested. 

Now we're playing with a three, the momentum is growing, looking more solid, keeping shape better, there's a chance of qualifying for 2020.

We're building.

 

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1 minute ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Clarke doing exactly as he did with killie.

Make us incredibly hard to beat, get momentum then be more offensive. 

First season at killie he did this tbf second season we played some fantastic stuff. 

Just about to say the same thing 👍

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Just looked this up (because I'm a really sad bastard) Steve Clarke has given a lot of players their Scotland debut in the time he has been in charge so far:

Brophy vs. Cyprus (h)

Taylor vs. Belgium (a)

Cooper vs. Russia (h)

Devlin vs. Russia (a)

Fleck vs. Russia (a)

Shankland vs. Russia (a)

Findlay vs. San Marino (h)

Gallagher vs. Cyprus (a)

Dykes vs. Israel (h)

Considine vs. Czech Republic (h)

Hanlon vs. Slovakia (h)

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 10/9/2020 at 9:23 PM, Taylor1996 said:
This was said, on this forum, by a certain someone on October 8, 2019:
 
"It's (three at the back) not a quick fix. It's not a magic wand. We've played with four at the back for seventeen years. Enough's enough. We should give a system of 3/5 at the back at least four years before we make judgements."
 
And of course, he was met with a wave of "No one in our squad play with a 3 at their clubs", "We don't have 3 good center backs", "3 at the back is outdated.
Cut to a year: Cooper, O'Donnel, Gallagher, Fleck, McGregor, Forrest, McBurnie, Burke, etc, play it at club level. And if you look around data sites, you'll see that around 50% of the sides in the UK play with a three. As well as Atalanta, who are tearing teams to shreds in Serie A
 
I'll break it down:
 
Three central defenders are pretty much "strength in numbers". (Which is what Roy Keane said to describe England playing with a three). When there's three, there's less holes.
 
None of our midfielders are partially good at passing, so a tight-knit group of three in the middle of midfield is best, as the midfielders don't get asked to do what their limited skillset stops them from achieving.
 
We have no wingers that can beat people, so wingbacks are the solution.
 
If you play with two strikers it occupies more of their opponents defenders and midfielders, give giving our midfielders more space. Plus it eases the burdon on his strike partner. (Just think how more productive Kenny Miller and Steven Fletcher would've been if they didn't have to run around like a headless chicken)
Here endeth the lesson.
 
It'll be quite fantastic. Scotland have played with a four, for 18 years, which consisted of 9 qualification campaigns. We've gotten to one play off. We switch to a three, and we have a change of qualifying for the next European Championships, in four matches of using a three at the back system. Quite the validation for me.
 
When I learned of the formation (3-4-1-2) I was delighted. I went into the match not caring around the result. It's about the big picture. They say that Christmas is cancelled? Yeah, well, each time we play with a back 3, it's all my Christmases rolled into one.
 
For the record, if we keep to the same system, we can beat Serbia.

(Nothing positive to add? Don't reply. And put me on ignore, while you're at it)

18 years playing four at the back = 0 qualifications.

6 matches playing three at the back = 1 qualification.

Previous three qualifications achieved with three at the back.

Last time Scotland qualified for a tournament with four at the back was 1992.

I am absolutely ecstatic that Steve Clarke saw what was glaringly obvious. The camaraderie, the work ethic, the club ethos, etc, that Clarke has instilled... There's shades of 96 and 98 about this side.

As happy as I am, I genuinely feel a lot of sympathy for players like Ferguson and Darren Fletcher and McFadden, etc, as they were robbed of playing at the biggest stage by Scotland managers who stuck stubbornly to a four. Those three deserved a major finals appearance.

Makes you wonder how many tournaments we would've qualified for if one of 6 previous full time manager's learned from Craig Brown's success.

To pick a random year: 2007/08

                         Gordon

        McManus - Weir - G.Caldwell

Hutton                                        Naysmith

                  Brown - D.Fletcher

                        Ferguson

   Boyd/S.Fletcher/Miller - McFadden

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4 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

(Nothing positive to add? Don't reply. And put me on ignore, while you're at it)

18 years playing four at the back = 0 qualifications.

6 matches playing three at the back = 1 qualification.

Previous three qualifications achieved with three at the back.

Last time Scotland qualified for a tournament with four at the back was 1992.

I am absolutely ecstatic that Steve Clarke saw what was glaringly obvious. The camaraderie, the work ethic, the club ethos, etc, that Clarke has instilled... There's shades of 96 and 98 about this side.

As happy as I am, I genuinely feel a lot of sympathy for players like Ferguson and Darren Fletcher and McFadden, etc, as they were robbed of playing at the biggest stage by Scotland managers who stuck stubbornly to a four. Those three deserved a major finals appearance.

Makes you wonder how many tournaments we would've qualified for if one of 6 previous full time manager's learned from Craig Brown's success.

To pick a random year: 2007/08

                         Gordon

        McManus - Weir - G.Caldwell

Hutton                                        Naysmith

                  Brown - D.Fletcher

                        Ferguson

   Boyd/S.Fletcher/Miller - McFadden

Always had Hutton as a right back?  I prefer a solid 4-4-2 myself.

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1 minute ago, Taylor1996 said:

Nah. He was made to be a right wing-back.

Cool. How's the weather back there in the 80s? ;)

 

A right wing back?  Danny McGrain and Sandy Jardine were right backs but got up and down the park.  Same as Hutton.  This new FIFA 2020 on x-box crap is interfering with your heid kid.  Stand on 👉

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