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[Caledonian Craig]

The logistics here are clear. Clarke won't deviate from a winning side in the near future so that dictates no place for Fleck if he had been fit. On top of that Fleck would need to somehow make his way back into the United team first and impress with match-winning performances all in the space of three weeks to get Clarke even thinking and that showed no sign of happening so, at best, Fleck is a squad member at this moment in time so is NOT a huge miss.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Caledonian Craig

[Taylor1996]

6 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I do love how you paint a picture that everyone here but you are wind-up merchants when quite clearly you are as well. I made this point about Fleck yesterday and you didn't deny what I said but then came back with another post later totally contrary to your original reaction.

Fleck was a squad member in our most recent squad and despite another midfielder pulling out of the squad he still did not feature. Dykes and all other players you mention are NOW first team regulars and Fleck is not. I am not sure how your brain cannot equate those facts. Dykes has won his five caps in a month whereas Fleck has won his four caps in a year.

 

Why is it when people have different opinions, people here jump to the conclusion that they're on the wind up? I don't think think people are wind up merchants. Everyone has different opinions. In a grown-up place, that would be respected, but here? The insults fly.

You're quantifying amounts of caps for the level of importance. In my opinion, Fleck is better than McGregor, McLean and Jack. Not sure how that's baffling you. The number of caps is irrelevant.

[Taylor1996]

7 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

He played one brief sub appearance in our last three matches

He started against Slovakia and lasted 72 minutes.

6 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The logistics here are clear. Clarke won't deviate from a winning side

Oh really? He won't? The midfield trio has only been the same twice and the previous four matches. And the following evidence shows that he will change a winning side.

Last 4 matches:

Czech Republic: Fleck, Armstrong and McLean

Israel: Jack, McGregor and McGinn

Slovakia: Fleck, McGinn, McLean

Czech Republic: Jack, McGregor, McGinn.

 

[Caledonian Craig]

23 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

He started against Slovakia and lasted 72 minutes.

Oh really? He won't? The midfield trio has only been the same twice and the previous four matches. And the following evidence shows that he will change a winning side.

Last 4 matches:

Czech Republic: Fleck, Armstrong and McLean

Israel: Jack, McGregor and McGinn

Slovakia: Fleck, McGinn, McLean

Czech Republic: Jack, McGregor, McGinn.

 

You just do not accept the facts sitting there in front of you. Fleck is not a first team regular for us (four caps in a year says that) and he is not even a first team regular for Sheffield United now as he is in a poor run of form. Even Scotland fans admit that. The current players in our side who I'd say them missing out would be a huge loss would be Marshall, McGinn and Robertson - not Fleck in his current malaise. Its a shame you just cannot accept when you're wrong.

 

[Taylor1996]

15 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You just do not accept the facts sitting there in front of you. Fleck is not a first team regular for us (four caps in a year says that) and he is not even a first team regular for Sheffield United now as he is in a poor run of form. Even Scotland fans admit that. The current players in our side who I'd say them missing out would be a huge loss would be Marshall, McGinn and Robertson - not Fleck in his current malaise. Its a shame you just cannot accept when you're wrong.

 

Facts? You said that Fleck isn't a Sheffield United regular now. What, you mean, now that he's injured? No. I doubt Chris Wilder will start an injured player.

When fit, Fleck is a Sheffield United regular. His 30 matches out of 38 in the EPL would signify this.

I wouldn't even say this is a right or wrong debate. It's about opinions. If you're saying Jack or McGregor are better than Fleck, that would something else entirely.

Who's playing in a better league?

It's my opinion, if fit, John Fleck is a better player than all of our central midfielders, barring McTominay. Don't like it? Fair enough.

 

[Kirk]

10 hours ago, bigfingers said:

As long as we have Mcginn, Mcgregor, Jack, Armstrong, Christie, Mctominay I'm happy enough with that. 

I really dont think Christie and mcgregor are big misses, both been up and down and low on confidence due to celtic being the same. They also dont realise they cant just stroll through games like they are used to at Celtic.  Armstrong was a big miss last few games, needed more creativity and legs at times and he is good for that. 

[Caledonian Craig]

59 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Facts? You said that Fleck isn't a Sheffield United regular now. What, you mean, now that he's injured? No. I doubt Chris Wilder will start an injured player.

When fit, Fleck is a Sheffield United regular. His 30 matches out of 38 in the EPL would signify this.

I wouldn't even say this is a right or wrong debate. It's about opinions. If you're saying Jack or McGregor are better than Fleck, that would something else entirely.

Who's playing in a better league?

It's my opinion, if fit, John Fleck is a better player than all of our central midfielders, barring McTominay. Don't like it? Fair enough.

 

The facts are that Clarke does not deem him a first pick in his midfield at present so how can someone of that ilk be deemed a huge miss exactly? Fleck has been off-form this season and United's league position indicates that. On current form Fleck is not in line for a place in our side so how the hell that makes him a 'huge' miss is beyond me.

This from a Yorkshire news website about Fleck:-

'However, he has been struggling to regain that form so far during this campaign and had found himself out of the starting XI for the matches against Leeds and Arsenal.

Wilder revealed he has held positive talks with the midfielder about the dip in his performance levels and planned to bring him back for the 1-1 draw on Sunday before injury struck.'

Like I said out of form and out of United side and not a first team pick for us does not equate to a 'huge' miss. This is about the here and now form not about potential or past form or even how anyone rates him as a midfield because, at present, he is not in the form to reproduce that potential.

[ProudScot]

23 minutes ago, Kirk said:

I really dont think Christie and mcgregor are big misses, both been up and down and low on confidence due to celtic being the same. They also dont realise they cant just stroll through games like they are used to at Celtic.  Armstrong was a big miss last few games, needed more creativity and legs at times and he is good for that. 

Certainly agree about McGregor. Christie is quite handy but McGregor is on borrowed time in the side potentially. 

[Taylor1996]

Just now, Caledonian Craig said:

The facts are that Clarke does not deem him a first pick in his midfield at present so how can someone of that ilk be deemed a huge miss exactly? Fleck has been off-form this season and United's league position indicates that. On current form Fleck is not in line for a place in our side so how the hell that makes him a 'huge' miss is beyond me.

This from a Yorkshire news website about Fleck:-

'However, he has been struggling to regain that form so far during this campaign and had found himself out of the starting XI for the matches against Leeds and Arsenal.

Wilder revealed he has held positive talks with the midfielder about the dip in his performance levels and planned to bring him back for the 1-1 draw on Sunday before injury struck.'

Like I said out of form and out of United side and not a first team pick for us does not equate to a 'huge' miss. This is about the here and now form not about potential or past form or even how anyone rates him as a midfield because, at present, he is not in the form to reproduce that potential.

So, you deem Jack and McGregor to be in better form? Celtic are being constantly slaughtered for their performances and Jack is currently propping up one of the worst Rangers midfields in a while.

On current form, the only Scotland midfielders worth a damn are McGinn and McTominay.

Fleck, McGregor and Jack are all interchangeable. Neither are top drawer, but in our current system, I trust all three.

 

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

So, you deem Jack and McGregor to be in better form? Celtic are being constantly slaughtered for their performances and Jack is currently propping up one of the worst Rangers midfields in a while.

 

Of course they have been in better form and is why Clarke selected them above Fleck. Hmm worst Rangers midfields in a while? Top of the SPL after a long time in the wilderness .....no. Just no.

At present Fleck is not in the form to be a starter at present. Clarke sees that and I suggest the Scotland support see that by a big majority. That is at present. Hopefully, he'll return to the form of a year ago and be back in contention again but like I said certainly not a 'huge' miss.

[Taylor1996]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Of course they have been in better form and is why Clarke selected them above Fleck. Hmm worst Rangers midfields in a while? Top of the SPL after a long time in the wilderness .....no. Just no.

At present Fleck is not in the form to be a starter at present. Clarke sees that and I suggest the Scotland support see that by a big majority. That is at present. Hopefully, he'll return to the form of a year ago and be back in contention again but like I said certainly not a 'huge' miss.

Yes. Being on top of a league were 10 out of 12 teams have no money, which are filled with free transfers, et, is an achievement. No. Just no.

Fleck, when fit, is better than Jack and McGregor. That's undeniable. I'd suggest that people watch leagues where teams aren't filled with free transfers.

Scotland are light in midfield. As soon as Billy Gilmour gets back fit and begins playing, either on loan or at Chelsea, the better.

[Kirk]

30 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Certainly agree about McGregor. Christie is quite handy but McGregor is on borrowed time in the side potentially. 

Aye Christie when he is on it is a good player but recently when I've watched him for both celtic and scotland I've been frustrated as he is trying too much instead of the simple pass which would put someone through or allow a cross etc. Mcgregor I've never seen the hype tbh, has the odd flash but not consistently enough.

[Caledonian Craig]

4 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Yes. Being on top of a league were 10 out of 12 teams have no money, which are filled with free transfers, et, is an achievement. No. Just no.

Fleck, when fit, is better than Jack and McGregor. That's undeniable. I'd suggest that people watch leagues where teams aren't filled with free transfers.

Scotland are light in midfield. As soon as Billy Gilmour gets back fit and begins playing, either on loan or at Chelsea, the better.

Right so you are not denying this is certainly NOT Rangers' worst midfield in years?

It is not undeniable as Clarke shows with his team selections.

Light in midfield? All pundits and fans will say that is our strongest areas and is why we brushed off the absence of Armstrong, Forrest and Gilmour and still had our most successful six days ever largely without Fleck.

[mccaughey85]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Right so you are not denying this is certainly NOT Rangers' worst midfield in years?

It is not undeniable as Clarke shows with his team selections.

Light in midfield? All pundits and fans will say that is our strongest areas and is why we brushed off the absence of Armstrong, Forrest and Gilmour and still had our most successful six days ever largely without Fleck.

Your not going to get any sense from this guy, he thinks we need to have a 10 midfielders who play for barca to be strong in midfield. He doesn't understand that we are Scotland and our current set of midfielders are strong relative to other positions and other similar sized countries. You are best just to do what most ppl do and ignore this guy and not get bogged down with his daftness. 

[Third Lanark]

49 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

So, you deem Jack and McGregor to be in better form? Celtic are being constantly slaughtered for their performances and Jack is currently propping up one of the worst Rangers midfields in a while.

On current form, the only Scotland midfielders worth a damn are McGinn and McTominay.

Fleck, McGregor and Jack are all interchangeable. Neither are top drawer, but in our current system, I trust all three.

 

?? Steve Davis? Kamara? Being propped up? 'Complementing' is the word you are fishing for. Also if Arfield had not decamped to Canada he would - IMO - be in the Scotland reckoning now.

[Taylor1996]

22 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Right so you are not denying this is certainly NOT Rangers' worst midfield in years?

It is not undeniable as Clarke shows with his team selections.

Light in midfield? All pundits and fans will say that is our strongest areas and is why we brushed off the absence of Armstrong, Forrest and Gilmour and still had our most successful six days ever largely without Fleck.

This is Rangers worst midfield in years. Do I have to confirm everything I say?

Is Fleck in a better league?

Are you just being contrary on everything? I'd say that left back is our strongest position, central defence (Tierney, McKenna and McToninay and then the strikers (Dykes, McBurnie).

Jack, McGregor are in the SPL. McLean is in the Championship and Fleck is with a team that'llstruggls in the EPL this season. If that is what you class as "strong", then I stand by my thoughts that a lot of people don'tk now much about football.

Forest and Armstrong are closer to being forwards than midfielders. And even if they were, Southampton and Celtic aren't exactly big clubs.

[Taylor1996]

5 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

?? Steve Davis? Kamara? Being propped up? 'Complementing' is the word you are fishing for. Also if Arfield had not decamped to Canada he would - IMO - be in the Scotland reckoning now.

Good point.

Arfield isn't that good, and yet he would be in the Scotland reckoning.

[Caledonian Craig]

21 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Your not going to get any sense from this guy, he thinks we need to have a 10 midfielders who play for barca to be strong in midfield. He doesn't understand that we are Scotland and our current set of midfielders are strong relative to other positions and other similar sized countries. You are best just to do what most ppl do and ignore this guy and not get bogged down with his daftness. 

Agreed. 

[ProudScot]

13 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

This is Rangers worst midfield in years. Do I have to confirm everything I say?

Is Fleck in a better league?

Are you just being contrary on everything? I'd say that left back is our strongest position, central defence (Tierney, McKenna and McToninay and then the strikers (Dykes, McBurnie).

Jack, McGregor are in the SPL. McLean is in the Championship and Fleck is with a team that'llstruggls in the EPL this season. If that is what you class as "strong", then I stand by my thoughts that a lot of people don'tk now much about football.

Forest and Armstrong are closer to being forwards than midfielders. And even if they were, Southampton and Celtic aren't exactly big clubs.

This is Rangers best midfield for about 10 years.

I feel annoyed at myself for interacting but you are on a different planet. And it’s not a good planet. It’s a scary cold uninhabited planet where all there is to drink is dog urine and liptons iced tea. And both those things are horrible. 

[Taylor1996]

Yes. Because Jack (Rangers), McGregor (Celtic) and McLean (Norwich) are top drawer players playing for huge clubs.

For someone to say the aforementioned players are far superrior to Fleck (Sheffield United) is strange. They're all much of a muchness. Fleck is better, though.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Taylor1996

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Yes. Because Jack (Rangers), McGregor (Celtic) and McLean (Norwich) are top drawer players plating for huge clubs.

For someone to say the aforementioned players are far superrior to Fleck (Sheffield United) is strange. They're all much of a muchness. Fleck is better, though.

Even stranger that you claim to know better than the Scotland manager who did not select Fleck over McGregor and Jack in the key play-off. And Wilder his club boss who is concerned about his form. At the current moment Fleck is not better as is way off-form yet you think he is a 'huge' miss for us. And McGregor and Jack have something that Fleck does not have - regular first team football recently and plenty of experience in European club football where Celtic and Rangers did do fairly well last season. 

[Taylor1996]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Even stranger that you claim to know better than the Scotland manager who did not select Fleck over McGregor and Jack in the key play-off. And Wilder his club boss who is concerned about his form. At the current moment Fleck is not better as is way off-form yet you think he is a 'huge' miss for us. And McGregor and Jack have something that Fleck does not have - regular first team football recently and plenty of experience in European club football where Celtic and Rangers did do fairly well last season. 

What, knowing better than the Scotland manager, as in, people wanting Clarke fired after the Israel draw? That kind of thinking that they know better than the Scotland manager?

You're talking about players. Fine. I'll make it about formations. Do I know better than Steve Clarke, Strachan, McLeish, etc, etc, etc, with regards to my banging my drum about the systems? Yes. I know better. Apparently, I'm the only person in Scotland who saw that our players aren't suited to four at the back. What reactions did I receive when I first mentioned a three on here? Mockery, rude comments, "You play too much FM", etc.

Taking that into consideration, yes, I do know more than every Scotland manager from 2001 till now. 

It's in no reflection Fleck's abilities that he only has four caps.

If Fleck was fit, he would be had 3 matches for Sheffield United to play himself into form. Who is to say that he wouldn't have?

If you disagree, fine. I maintain that losing Fleck is a high loss as we are thin in ths middle of midfield 

[Caledonian Craig]

19 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

What, knowing better than the Scotland manager, as in, people wanting Clarke fired after the Israel draw? That kind of thinking that they know better than the Scotland manager?

You're talking about players. Fine. I'll make it about formations. Do I know better than Steve Clarke, Strachan, McLeish, etc, etc, etc, with regards to my banging my drum about the systems? Yes. I know better. Apparently, I'm the only person in Scotland who saw that our players aren't suited to four at the back. What reactions did I receive when I first mentioned a three on here? Mockery, rude comments, "You play too much FM", etc.

Taking that into consideration, yes, I do know more than every Scotland manager from 2001 till now. 

It's in no reflection Fleck's abilities that he only has four caps.

If Fleck was fit, he would be had 3 matches for Sheffield United to play himself into form. Who is to say that he wouldn't have?

If you disagree, fine. I maintain that losing Fleck is a high loss as we are thin in ths middle of midfield 

Sorry psl but you know nothing. You are a pariah here and have had more bans than anyone else. You are just a sad individual trying to make yourself look big from behind your keyboard. Where are your coaching badges? Same place as you live. In your dreams.

[Taylor1996]

8 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sorry psl but you know nothing. You are a pariah here and have had more bans than anyone else. You are just a sad individual trying to make yourself look big from behind your keyboard. Where are your coaching badges? Same place as you live. In your dreams.

I know nothing? Really? Scope out the forum.

When I first touched on playing with a three, people mocked the idea of wing backs, three center backs, etc.

And now? People who were obsessed with four at the back, people who thought a three was stuff to make fun on, are accepting it as the new normal. I'd say that that's quite the vindication.

literally years ahead of the mob here.

if you don't like my opinions. Be a grown up and put across your point without using petty insults. If you can't win an argument with me (not even sure what the argument was about, to be honest.) Either be a man about it and debate with respect or put me on ignore.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Taylor1996

[Kirk]

2 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

This is Rangers worst midfield in years. Do I have to confirm everything I say?

Is Fleck in a better league?

Are you just being contrary on everything? I'd say that left back is our strongest position, central defence (Tierney, McKenna and McToninay and then the strikers (Dykes, McBurnie).

Jack, McGregor are in the SPL. McLean is in the Championship and Fleck is with a team that'llstruggls in the EPL this season. If that is what you class as "strong", then I stand by my thoughts that a lot of people don'tk now much about football.

Forest and Armstrong are closer to being forwards than midfielders. And even if they were, Southampton and Celtic aren't exactly big clubs.

 

1 hour ago, Taylor1996 said:

Yes. Because Jack (Rangers), McGregor (Celtic) and McLean (Norwich) are top drawer players playing for huge clubs.

For someone to say the aforementioned players are far superrior to Fleck (Sheffield United) is strange. They're all much of a muchness. Fleck is better, though.

 

 

You bath with yer da!