Scotland vs Israel - Match Thread [08/10/2020]

[Rolling hIlls]

2 minutes ago, killiefaetheferry said:

Just saw the video 😂. Sorry for trying to be a clever clogs without reading all the posts!

Aye I think that was it mate.  But Mr Gaddafi was right.  But it is always down to the refs decision.

[killiefaetheferry]

32 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

And hence is our problem.  Football is a sport and supposed to be entertainment.  Setting up a team that is 'hard to beat' is the mentality that has got us where we are.  You obviously agree with that as did every other manager since Roxburgh.  When I first saw Scotland it was Get in to them.  Might not have won every game but gave it a go.  I coach my boys and never ever would say that we cant win so we need to sit back and hope we get a breakaway. Pish attitude.

That misrepresents so much of what I posted that I can't be arsed deconstructing it 😂

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Aye I think that was it mate.  But Mr Gaddafi was right.  But it is always down to the refs decision.

Pretty certain the ref was Clive Thomas.

[Rolling hIlls]

Just now, Rolling hIlls said:

Aye I think that was it mate.  But Mr Gaddafi was right.  But it is always down to the refs decision.

Sorry, not Gaddafi, Mulgrahie.  Stand on.  I feel a warning coming on!  Naw, good banter boys.

[vanderark14]

48 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Fraser and forrest are the only proper wingers out of that list.

We need guys who have a bit of trickery and confidence to take ppl on. It's something we always lacked. Mikey Johnston is a young and upcoming winger who was getting games for celtic and scoring in the Europa league before he got injured. Why wait til he's 24 before we cap him let's get him in while he's 21 and let him gain international experience.  I am not suggesting calling him up while injured but once he's back from injury and getting game time he should be called up. He should of actually been called up when he was 19/20. Can you name me any other decent young Scottish wingers coming through because I can't. 

Morgan is starting to do well for inter miami and as I said we don't have many young wingers coming through so it would be good to give him a chance. Forrest is by no means a starter and fraser is hardly in the squad. 

You didnt say winger, you mentioned creativity. The players i mentioned can all create somwthing

 

[Toepoke]

Social distancing oot the window, but who gives 

 

 

 

[sandyb]

Don’t really care how we got through but I am glad it was not a glorious defeat...

Marshall is a great keeper but distribution was poor and put pressure on us.

Jack put a shift in but won the ball only to give it back in crucial areas.

Lack of creativity...... we need a Gilmour, Forest and Fraser on the pitch. McGinn was dropping back to make things happen and we need him in their box. I thought all the front guys worked hard  with only scraps to go at.

The defence was better and McTom didn’t look out of place

Not sure what has happened to McGregor but looks a bit out sorts for Scotland. He usually controls possession but its not happening at the moment.

Short time but Clarke seems to be getting us to a small club mentality - hard to beat but we need creativity from somewhere

Great to see the passion of the guys when we won.

Serbia can be beaten but it will be tough....... don’t give a shite if its ugly....just win.

[bigfingers]

3 minutes ago, sandyb said:

Don’t really care how we got through but I am glad it was not a glorious defeat...

Marshall is a great keeper but distribution was poor and put pressure on us.

Jack put a shift in but won the ball only to give it back in crucial areas.

Lack of creativity...... we need a Gilmour, Forest and Fraser on the pitch. McGinn was dropping back to make things happen and we need him in their box. I thought all the front guys worked hard  with only scraps to go at.

The defence was better and McTom didn’t look out of place

Not sure what has happened to McGregor but looks a bit out sorts for Scotland. He usually controls possession but its not happening at the moment.

Short time but Clarke seems to be getting us to a small club mentality - hard to beat but we need creativity from somewhere

Great to see the passion of the guys when we won.

Serbia can be beaten but it will be tough....... don’t give a shite if its ugly....just win.

We need Christie for the final more than anyone who was unavailable IMO. 

[mccaughey85]

Is it a case of inglorious victory instead of glorious defeat these days. We certainly never had any luck in the past. 

[killiefaetheferry]

1 minute ago, bigfingers said:

We need Christie for the final more than anyone who was unavailable IMO. 

Nah mate, that would be Dalglish.

Seriously, I would have Christie in for one of the front 2 to allow McGinn to support the one striker. Armstrong rather than Jack. Tierney rather than O'Donnell. McTominay looked good - old fashioned libero bringing the ball out of defence and trying to dictate the play, but dropping back out of possession.

[bigfingers]

3 minutes ago, killiefaetheferry said:

Nah mate, that would be Dalglish.

Seriously, I would have Christie in for one of the front 2 to allow McGinn to support the one striker. Armstrong rather than Jack. Tierney rather than O'Donnell. McTominay looked good - old fashioned libero bringing the ball out of defence and trying to dictate the play, but dropping back out of possession.

Definitely more confident for the final the fact we have players to come in who are playing at much higher level than some last night.

[Fish Supper]

2 hours ago, Rolling hIlls said:

You are correct.  But refs have a law unto thereselves!!

Of course we do! Why do you think we chose to become officials?

[HandofRhod]

2 hours ago, Rolling hIlls said:

And hence is our problem.  Football is a sport and supposed to be entertainment.  Setting up a team that is 'hard to beat' is the mentality that has got us where we are.  You obviously agree with that as did every other manager since Roxburgh.  When I first saw Scotland it was Get in to them.  Might not have won every game but gave it a go.  I coach my boys and never ever would say that we cant win so we need to sit back and hope we get a breakaway. Pish attitude.

Football is a sport , but nowhere does it say it’s meant to be entertainment. Films, Music, theatre and books - this is where you should look if its solely entertainment you are after. Sport is meant to be competitive. Entertainment from sport is a by-product of the competitiveness. The joy of sport comes from winning at something which was competitive. If you can’t compete it’s not going to be entertaining, it doesn’t matter how much silky creative football is on show in a game if you get beat 6 – nil, your not going to enjoy it. When you have a squad of limited ability, like Scotland do now, then being organised and hard to beat allows you to be competitive. It gives us a chance to win games and get to a championship which is the main goal in this and the thing that will actually bring joy to the nation. Although I guess not to the miserable f**ks on here who seem to love us getting beat as they think it proves them right.

[Bristolhibby]

6 minutes ago, HandofRhod said:

Football is a sport , but nowhere does it say it’s meant to be entertainment. Films, Music, theatre and books - this is where you should look if its solely entertainment you are after. Sport is meant to be competitive. Entertainment from sport is a by-product of the competitiveness. The joy of sport comes from winning at something which was competitive. If you can’t compete it’s not going to be entertaining, it doesn’t matter how much silky creative football is on show in a game if you get beat 6 – nil, your not going to enjoy it. When you have a squad of limited ability, like Scotland do now, then being organised and hard to beat allows you to be competitive. It gives us a chance to win games and get to a championship which is the main goal in this and the thing that will actually bring joy to the nation. Although I guess not to the miserable f**ks on here who seem to love us getting beat as they think it proves them right.

Spoken like a true Bobby Williamson “if you want entertainment go to the cinema”.

I get what you are saying, but some times it would be nice to play with a bit of urgency, width and pace.

Still, thinking back to Kazakstan away when the Euros fell from our grasp after one game and getting humped 3-0, followed by a flattering 0-2 over San Marino, I would have bitten your hand off for 90 minutes v Serbia in a one off game to qualify. 

J

[HandofRhod]

I absolutely agree it would be great to play with urgency, width and pace, but I’m not sure we have the players to play that way, I don’t think we have any genuinely rapid players at all.

I think only McTom, Robbo and KT have realy high quality athleticism.  Mcginn is a terrier and the rest of the midfield get by through sensible positional play on the most part.

I would like to see more width. But we only have Forrest and Fraser as decent wingers.  1 was injured last night and 1 had only played a couple of hours since march. Playing both of them also takes away from our ability to be urgent, as neither are the most athletic. They do tho both bring creativity which we have lacked recently. I would have liked to have seen Chris Burke in this squad, i think he could be an option to bring a bit of width.

With everyone fit I think my preffered team would be 

Marshall

KT - Gallagher - Cooper - Robbo

McTom - Jack 

Christie - Mcginn - Fraser

Dykes

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by HandofRhod

[Rolling hIlls]

35 minutes ago, Fish Supper said:

Of course we do! Why do you think we chose to become officials?

I tried it once when I was Junior.  Went to an amateur game and ref never turned up so they asked me.  Never again.  The abuse is something awful and still is at all levels.  Talk about eyes in the back of your head.  So I take my hat of to refs.

[Rolling hIlls]

40 minutes ago, HandofRhod said:

Football is a sport , but nowhere does it say it’s meant to be entertainment. Films, Music, theatre and books - this is where you should look if its solely entertainment you are after. Sport is meant to be competitive. Entertainment from sport is a by-product of the competitiveness. The joy of sport comes from winning at something which was competitive. If you can’t compete it’s not going to be entertaining, it doesn’t matter how much silky creative football is on show in a game if you get beat 6 – nil, your not going to enjoy it. When you have a squad of limited ability, like Scotland do now, then being organised and hard to beat allows you to be competitive. It gives us a chance to win games and get to a championship which is the main goal in this and the thing that will actually bring joy to the nation. Although I guess not to the miserable f**ks on here who seem to love us getting beat as they think it proves them right.

We will agree to disagree.  Football is entertainment to me as I love it.  Yes, we all want to win as it is a sport as well.  I watched Rangers go through in Europe last week and the goals were highly entertaining and a joy to watch.  It was better than watching Scooby Doo!  It seems to me you watch football with the broose down.  I like to watch it with them up.  Dont be miserable when you watch a game.  Be happy.  That's all folks 🐕

[weekevie04]

Marshall - a solid, dependable and good keeper. Has made some massive saves in the past for us, but I think his distribution is really poor. I stopped counting, but 8 of his kicks/punts up field went straight to a white jersey.

O'Donnell - I like the guy, he obviously loves playing for his country and runs his heart out, but it really shows at times that he is not good enough at this level. He's a useful squad member to have and he did have a better second half - his passing is very good though - but don't know if that makes up for being exposed time and time again.

Robertson - his best game in donkey's for us? Lots of driving runs and it was fantastic to see him riled up at the breaks between half-time, really impressive performance and his passing, crossing was very good. Well worthy of the captain armband last night.

Cooper - haven't seen enough of him, but he did well. A no-nonsense defender and tight marking.

Gallagher - I've thought he has played excellent for us. A big, bold and sturdy defender. Can spot a pass, and whilst he can be a bit handsy - sent off for Motherwell in Europe - and that incident last night where he went down (he had his hands all over the Israeli lad) He doesn't look out of place at all.

McTominay - did very well considering the last time he played there and even helped out SOD, the few times he was over-exposed. Really like the guy, gives his all, although a bit wasted playing where he has the last few games. Certainly did very well last night, so maybe Clarke is the genius after all?

McGinn - worked very hard, and had some good runs, but maybe his worst game in a while? Whilst it wasn't that bad, he possibly was trying too much considering the players we had out. He's best used further up the field, so hopefully when others are back, we can utilise him to his potential. Saying that, he wasn't bad last night but considering his lofty high standards, it was one of his poorer games which wasn't bad at all, if that makes sense.

Ryan Jack - a good tackler, and a key player to have there. Although felt some of his good work of tackling and intercepting Israeli passes went undone by giving it back to the opposition. I've been impressed though, and he's certainly pushing to be in the starting XI in the future.

Callum McGregor - his best Scotland game in donkeys. He's come in to some form at club level too, and hopefully he pushes on and on to help us in November. Lots of neat, tidy, and clever passes along with good runs and support play. Possibly our best player last night.

Oliver McBurnie - looked like he ran a bit more, and tried harder but no, I don't see it. I'm fairly open minded, but I just don't see what he offers. It's a tough job up there at times for Scotland, but he is constantly tackled or gives the ball back to the opponents. I don't see enough of him in the Premier League, but I don't rate him.

Lyndon Dykes - a quieter game than last month, and whilst similar in style and play to McBurnie, it didn't quite work out for him this time around yet I still think he played better and offered more than McBurnie did. Not sure if he's good enough to be seen as a regular starter, but certainly a valued addition to the squad.

Lawrence Shankland - came on a bit late and considering both teams had almost shut up shop for penalties, didn't have much to work on. He did well. Clever play, and got himself in to a few dangerous positions, had a decent chance and hope to see him start against Slovakia to see what he can do at this level.

Ryan Fraser - did well. Goes down a bit too easy? And similar to Christie in that he tries a lot of things, many don't come off but the ones that do often can lead to goals or the start of a goal. He looked a little unfit, so hoping he can get some more game time at Newcastle and pushF on for November.

Callum Paterson - worked hard and did very well. A very good squad player, and works hard, generally skillful and very handy that he can play almost anywhere. A bit like Fraser, hoping for more game time and wouldn't mind seeing him start in the next two games to see what he can offer.

Kenny McLean - not enough time but didn't do anything out of the ordinary. Scored a cracking penalty too.

It wasn't great nor pretty at times, but we looked a lot more solid at the back - although I'd imagine a better side would have scored or put us under a lot more pressure. A clean sheet isn't to be sniffed at , so there's the bonus of that.

Attacking wise, we didn't create much at all. We looked a little more dangerous when Fraser came on, and we need McGinn to play further up. What we'd give for a very good striker!

Positives are we got through, the psychological boost that will give the players. We have 5-6 players to come back in November and 2/3 of them are huge key players for us.

Serbia is going to be a very difficult game, they are a good side ; but if we can keep it tight like last night then who knows.

 

[bigfingers]

25 minutes ago, HandofRhod said:

I absolutely agree it would be great to play with urgency, width and pace, but I’m not sure we have the players to play that way, I don’t think we have any genuinely rapid players at all.

I think only McTom, Robbo and KT have realy high quality athleticism.  Mcginn is a terrier and the rest of the midfield get by through sensible positional play on the most part.

I would like to see more width. But we only have Forrest and Fraser as decent wingers.  1 was injured last night and 1 had only played a couple of hours since march. Playing both of them also takes away from our ability to be urgent, as neither are the most athletic. They do tho both bring creativity which we have lacked recently. I would have liked to have seen Chris Burke in this squad, i think he could be an option to bring a bit of width.

With everyone fit I think my preffered team would be 

Marshall

KT - Gallagher - Cooper - Robbo

McTom - Jack 

Christie - Mcginn - Fraser

Dykes

 

I cant see Clarke changing from a 3 at the back for the final now I'm afraid. 

[ger intae them]

28 minutes ago, HandofRhod said:

I would have liked to have seen Chris Burke in this squad, i think he could be an option to bring a bit of width.

 

Mostly agree..... but this is beyond Chris now!

Much as he’s a part timer for Scotland...... and for that he shouldn’t get much of a look in, I am beginning to think that fraser is the only winger worth a shirt. Last night showed glimpses of the difference he could make.

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by ger intae them

[HandofRhod]

7 minutes ago, bigfingers said:

I cant see Clarke changing from a 3 at the back for the final now I'm afraid. 

I think your right, especially in games agaisnt decent teams where we are going to be under pressure. 

He likes to be solid defensively and then try to find a goal from somewhere and i think after last night that he has got hem looking soild with 3 at the back i dont see it changing.

[bigfingers]

2 minutes ago, HandofRhod said:

I think your right, especially in games agaisnt decent teams where we are going to be under pressure. 

He likes to be solid defensively and then try to find a goal from somewhere and i think after last night that he has got hem looking soild with 3 at the back i dont see it changing.

There was a time when we had next to no centre backs so its quite nice to be playing a 3 and be more solid in there. 

[HandofRhod]

21 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

We will agree to disagree.  Football is entertainment to me as I love it.  Yes, we all want to win as it is a sport as well.  I watched Rangers go through in Europe last week and the goals were highly entertaining and a joy to watch.  It was better than watching Scooby Doo!  It seems to me you watch football with the broose down.  I like to watch it with them up.  Dont be miserable when you watch a game.  Be happy.  That's all folks 🐕

Im not sure you understood my point. I didnt say football wasn't entertaining, I said that as a Sport its not required to be. 

Of course football is entertaining but comes from it being competative.   

If scooby doo is your alterantive choice of entertainment, it does explain alot! 

I love football and I very much enjoyed that game last night and was very Happy. We won and are through to the final of the play offs! Buzzing! 

I enjoyed it much more than beating Gibralta 6-0 or Malta 5-1 although those games had more attacking from us and more creativity and more goals. They were alot less competative and the wins didnt take us much closer to achieving anything great.

[Caledonian Craig]

I get where people are coming from with regards our chances V Serbia being very slim but its a one-off match. If you look at their recent results there are some glimmers of hope there if you consider, in the two years, they have drawn at home to Romania, laboured to a 2-1 win over Montenegro, beaten comfortably at home 4-2 by Portugal, laboured to a 3-2 win at home to Luxembourg and drew 2-2 at home to Ukraine.

They are not unbeatable. Posters on here often claim we are better than Wales well Serbia are ten places below Wales in the FIFA Rankings.

[HandofRhod]

10 minutes ago, bigfingers said:

There was a time when we had next to no centre backs so its quite nice to be playing a 3 and be more solid in there. 

Your right! It is nice that we have options in a previous problem position.

Center Forward aswell we used to struggle but we now have options, Dykes,Mcburnie, Patterson,Shankland, and Griffiths to come back.

Naismith said after the game that he thinks the squad is alot more competative as a whole now, which i agree with. There is now decent competition in most positions.

 

Right back is the one position i think we are still struggling in, for all that I like SOD and think he tries hard and is a okay backup i dont think hes at the level required, neither is Palmer. 

I think KT is our best option out there, Hes a genuine wolrd clas full back,  okay hes left footted but plenty right footers play at left back. KT has the footballing brain and the ability to do a good job there and would do a better job on the pitch there than on the bench if its between him and Robo at left back