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McTominay and our centre-back options


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40 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Liam Morrison is 17. I reckon he might make our team in about 18 months. What a talent he is. Normally you’d be worried about a centre half being bullied at that age, but not in this case. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.sundaypost.com/fp/008ei2308sub_6/amp/

Should he be in our under 21 squad and the best defender in the under 21 squad in the full squad?

Or are we best waiting a few years just to make sure they are good enough

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4 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

I have not see Morrison play, are we looking at a De Ligt or are we looking at a Zander Diamond? 

Well, Morrison is good in the air, on the ground and he has pace. Xander Diamond was only really good in the air.

Leon King is another quality center back on the horizon. Too bad he signed a new Rangers contract instead of moving abroad.

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3 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Should he be in our under 21 squad and the best defender in the under 21 squad in the full squad?

Or are we best waiting a few years just to make sure they are good enough

Porteous will be nowhere near the level of Morrison, even though he’s a decent enough prospect.

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It's funny because not so long ago people on here were waxing lyrical about our young up and coming centre back options. I remember the list, Souttar, Bates, McKenna, Hendry with Jason Kerr and the likes thrown in for good measure! These guys were bummed up as per usual because they played a few games in the SPL and so that has proved to be their level. Potentially maybe SPL to Championship maybe a game for a bottom side in the Premier League at a push. Maybe McKenna could still achieve this as for the others no chance. But this is nowhere near the standard we require to start qualifying for major tournaments again. We need centre backs playing consistently in the Premier League for at least a mid table side before we can even start to think about qualifying again. Need to stop holding out for these lads to blossom into centre backs they are never going to become and hope the next batch are better. Personally I think Morrison and King etc already look better at their age than McKenna and the likes did at 16 and 17 so here's hoping.

Souttar I must add has been very unfortunate with injuries but it seems one too many now for him. I always remember the best prospect I have seen in my time watching Scotland, John Kennedys career ruined by injury too, very unfortunate.

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25 minutes ago, bazmidd said:

It's funny because not so long ago people on here were waxing lyrical about our young up and coming centre back options. I remember the list, Souttar, Bates, McKenna, Hendry with Jason Kerr and the likes thrown in for good measure! These guys were bummed up as per usual because they played a few games in the SPL and so that has proved to be their level. Potentially maybe SPL to Championship maybe a game for a bottom side in the Premier League at a push. Maybe McKenna could still achieve this as for the others no chance. But this is nowhere near the standard we require to start qualifying for major tournaments again. We need centre backs playing consistently in the Premier League for at least a mid table side before we can even start to think about qualifying again. Need to stop holding out for these lads to blossom into centre backs they are never going to become and hope the next batch are better. Personally I think Morrison and King etc already look better at their age than McKenna and the likes did at 16 and 17 so here's hoping.

Souttar I must add has been very unfortunate with injuries but it seems one too many now for him. I always remember the best prospect I have seen in my time watching Scotland, John Kennedys career ruined by injury too, very unfortunate.

 

Of the ones you mention

Mckenna - regressed last season but so far has his head screwed on this season. His performances for scotland were arguably postive.

Souttar - fucked with injuries

Hendry - went to celtic so we rightly hoped he would be better than he turned out to be 

Bates - i cant remember many waxing lyrical about him but ill take your word for it

Kerr - i had to look him up and definitely dont remember anyone bigging him up

So not really sure what your point is here. Should we not discuss the potential of our young players? Should we wait till they reach the EPL? Should we wait for bazmidd to tell us when we can discuss their potential? 

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1 hour ago, bazmidd said:

It's funny because not so long ago people on here were waxing lyrical about our young up and coming centre back options. I remember the list, Souttar, Bates, McKenna, Hendry with Jason Kerr and the likes thrown in for good measure! These guys were bummed up as per usual because they played a few games in the SPL and so that has proved to be their level. Potentially maybe SPL to Championship maybe a game for a bottom side in the Premier League at a push. Maybe McKenna could still achieve this as for the others no chance. But this is nowhere near the standard we require to start qualifying for major tournaments again. We need centre backs playing consistently in the Premier League for at least a mid table side before we can even start to think about qualifying again. Need to stop holding out for these lads to blossom into centre backs they are never going to become and hope the next batch are better. Personally I think Morrison and King etc already look better at their age than McKenna and the likes did at 16 and 17 so here's hoping.

Souttar I must add has been very unfortunate with injuries but it seems one too many now for him. I always remember the best prospect I have seen in my time watching Scotland, John Kennedys career ruined by injury too, very unfortunate.

John Kennedy was very promising but Morrison is the most best I’ve seen since watching the youths from the 80s till now. Leon King certainly up there, too, but he’s a bit younger.

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On 9/11/2020 at 8:03 PM, ErsatzThistle said:

He's at Stoke City now. He was in the team for a while and they went through a terrible period of form, then they dropped him and started winning again .....

Well down the list.

I've seen him a few times for Stoke and think he got lumbered with a lot of blame that should have been at Butland's door.  Butland has been absolutely shocking for two seasons now so has made our defence look crap - we went through a phase every other shot on target was a goal!  Lyndsay's problem though is he has made some massive howlers too where he's let balls bounce or passed straight to an attacker.  Its a shame because he played his way back in, played decent for a couple of games then made a stupid mistake again and his confidence just went.

He's probably 7th choice centre back for us at the moment so defo needs a move.       

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6 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

 

Of the ones you mention

Mckenna - regressed last season but so far has his head screwed on this season. His performances for scotland were arguably postive.

Souttar - fucked with injuries

Hendry - went to celtic so we rightly hoped he would be better than he turned out to be 

Bates - i cant remember many waxing lyrical about him but ill take your word for it

Kerr - i had to look him up and definitely dont remember anyone bigging him up

So not really sure what your point is here. Should we not discuss the potential of our young players? Should we wait till they reach the EPL? Should we wait for bazmidd to tell us when we can discuss their potential? 

My main point is too many on here are guilty of overrating the potential of young players in Scotland and then tearing them to pieces when they don't match unrealistic expectations of them. People on here spoke of these great young hopes at centre back like it was some sort of golden generation when in reality we had a few decent centre backs at SPL level of a similar age with decent potential. But guys like Hendry and Bates now get slaughtered when they are actually still carving out half decent careers for themselves and are at where realistically they were always going to get to.

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5 hours ago, bazmidd said:

My main point is too many on here are guilty of overrating the potential of young players in Scotland and then tearing them to pieces when they don't match unrealistic expectations of them. People on here spoke of these great young hopes at centre back like it was some sort of golden generation when in reality we had a few decent centre backs at SPL level of a similar age with decent potential. But guys like Hendry and Bates now get slaughtered when they are actually still carving out half decent careers for themselves and are at where realistically they were always going to get to.

Yes, many overrate them, we are so desperate for quality I completely understand, we have been in the shadows for 20 years - its a long time. We big up our youngsters and slam our middle aged ones, we get behind them for 1 good performance (SOD) and then slag them off after their second appearance(SOD).

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10 hours ago, bazmidd said:

My main point is too many on here are guilty of overrating the potential of young players in Scotland and then tearing them to pieces when they don't match unrealistic expectations of them. People on here spoke of these great young hopes at centre back like it was some sort of golden generation when in reality we had a few decent centre backs at SPL level of a similar age with decent potential. But guys like Hendry and Bates now get slaughtered when they are actually still carving out half decent careers for themselves and are at where realistically they were always going to get to.

You have been just of guilty as the rest of us for saying you have high hopes for players and at no point do i remember anyone coming close to thinking we had a golden generation coming through. As scotland fans i dont think we hace high expectations of our players, in fact over the last 20 years i woild say we are the opposite, we almost expect failure now

Hendry and bates get criticism because they failed to realise their potential. Hendry has a decent career? Really?You might want to check that. Mckenna got the same criticism last season and he deserved it. 

I dont really understand your point, probably because you made some of it up. 

 should we not discuss our players with potential? Should we not get our hopes up? 

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6 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

You have been just of guilty as the rest of us for saying you have high hopes for players and at no point do i remember anyone coming close to thinking we had a golden generation coming through. As scotland fans i dont think we hace high expectations of our players, in fact over the last 20 years i woild say we are the opposite, we almost expect failure now

Hendry and bates get criticism because they failed to realise their potential. Hendry has a decent career? Really?You might want to check that. Mckenna got the same criticism last season and he deserved it. 

I dont really understand your point, probably because you made some of it up. 

 should we not discuss our players with potential? Should we not get our hopes up? 

I get the feeling your angling for an argument rather than a discussion... But anyhow..

 

Yes of course we should discuss the potential of our young players, I love watching the Scotland youth sides in the hope I can see a few potential stars in the making but... As I said they are very few and far between and a lot on here are very guilty of overrating and hyping up our young players.

Bates and Hendry are clearly good examples.. Where exactly did you expect these guys to end up? The Premier League? Because they are now playing at the sort of level I expected them to end up at. I am guessing you overrated them and expected more

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Cracking read about Morrison, have big hopes for the lad. Never had this much excitement for a young Scottish defender at least in my lifetime. The way top level coaches talk about him speaks volumes. 
 

even as a Celtic supporter, I’m glad he moved on from us. Going to a place like Bayern was the dream scenario for his development to fulfil as a young player. Still plenty of time yet of course but he seems like Gilmour and co, a soon to be special talent.

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Watched the game again - https://fullmatchsports.co/czech-republic-vs-scotland-full-match-highlights-unl/?tab=first-half

The defenders weren't the problem. The defence was actually quite good, apart from a couple of hairy moments. The main problem was that they didn't get any protection or help from the anchormen (Fleck and McLean).

Time and time again those two didn't show for the ball, leading the center backs to launch the ball forward. And they didn't provide any cover.

The entire midfield was abysmal. Armstrong, McLean were anonymous (and McLean gave the ball away leading to the Czech goal) and Christie tried, but didn't really do anything of note. Fleck was really the only midfielder that went away with some credit... Which isn't saying much.

As for Robertson, he passes to Palmer (from MIDFIELD), leading to the first goal. And then won a penalty. And yet some people still moan that he doesn't do enough.

Watching the match again, there was more positives than negatives.

Watching the game again, I doubt Clarke will switch to a four.

Most of our players just aren't international quality. 

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1 minute ago, Taylor1996 said:

Watched the game again - https://fullmatchsports.co/czech-republic-vs-scotland-full-match-highlights-unl/?tab=first-half

The defenders weren't the problem. The defence was actually quite good, apart from a couple of hairy moments. The main problem was that they didn't get any protection or help from the anchormen (Fleck and McLean).

Time and time again those two didn't show for the ball, leading the center backs to launch the ball forward. And they didn't provide any cover.

The entire midfield was abysmal. Armstrong, McLean were anonymous (and McLean gave the ball away leading to the Czech goal) and Christie tried, but didn't really do anything of note. Fleck was really the only midfielder that went away with some credit.

As for Robertson, he passes to Palmer (from MIDFIELD), leading to the first goal. And then won a penalty. And yet some people still moan that he doesn't do enough.

Watching the match again, there was more positives than negatives.

Watching the game again, I doubt Clarke will switch to a four.

Most of our players just aren't international quality. 

McLean was bloody dreadful. Constantly giving the ball away to the Czech's for the entire game. He was their twelfth man. He can't pass further than five yards.

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Just now, ErsatzThistle said:

McLean was bloody dreadful. Constantly giving the ball away to the Czech's for the entire game. He was their twelfth man. He can't pass further than five yards.

Yep. Armstrong was the same. The entire match.

I felt, watching it again, that we were playing with 9 men.

And yet people will say "Oh. But both have played in the EPL". as a way of justifying their inclusion.

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2 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

 

 

The entire midfield was abysmal. Armstrong, McLean were anonymous (and McLean gave the ball away leading to the Czech goal) and Christie tried, but didn't really do anything of note. Fleck was really the only midfielder that went away with some credit... Which isn't saying much.

 

 

Perhaps next time we should play with 4 midfielders.

You are right though  the midfield  appeared to be out of it's depth and that didn't help the the defence.

As for "more positives than negatives" I can only assume you were joking.

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1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Perhaps next time we should play with 4 midfielders.

You are right though  the midfield  appeared to be out of it's depth and that didn't help the the defence.

As for "more positives than negatives" I can only assume you were joking.

Three centrally, would be great, instead of two (Fleck and McLean).

The defence wasn't as bad as I thought on first viewing. The problem was, they had no outlet in possession and no protection out of possession.

Talking of, the first goal came when Robertson floated into the middle of midfield and shifted it onto Palmer. Robertson did more in 3 seconds in the center of midfield than McLean and Fleck did in 90 minutes.

We saw who is good enough and who isn't. We saw that our midfielders aren't equipped to play in a pair and we saw that the shape is getting there.

A few tweaks here and there, and keeping with the system for a couple of years. That's my wish.

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