Plus points tonight ?

[Parklife]

20 minutes ago, SWMM82 said:

Souttar’s career has been blighted by injury. If he had a consistent run of games, there is no doubt to me, that he would be a better option than McKenna. 

When he has had that and made it to the Scotland team, he's shown he's not. 

[SWMM82]

47 minutes ago, Parklife said:

When he has had that and made it to the Scotland team, he's shown he's not. 

Souttar has never had a consistent run of games in his short career to date.... how many serious injuries has he amassed at just 23 years old?

My issue with McKenna is that for a player that showed a lot of promise 2/3 years ago, he hasn’t improved. In fact he has probably regressed. I would sooner have Porteous in there. Also keeping a close eye on George Johnstone at Feyenoord.

[SWMM82]

Let’s just hope the cb debate is inconsequential in a few years time..... we’ve arguably got the best centre half pairing in Europe at youth level in Liam Morrison and Leon King👌🏼
 

The future back THREE....

King    Morrison    McTominay 😜

[Toepoke]

5 hours ago, ProudScot said:

McLean gave the ball away atleast 6 times last night 

Including for the Czech goal.

 

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

Mckenna has shown both domestically and at international level that he's better than Souttar. He's also been pretty comfortable in both our games, so it's weird he's the one getting picked out for criticism. 

McKenna was just about the only plus point for me over the weekend. Your in a better position than me to decide what he is capable of.

Bottom line he played slap bang central of the back three and seemed more than comfortable with  the change of system. Like all our central defenders he plays on the left but would he be able to cope with moving  more right again to take up the right sided central defender role if we move to a back four.

McKenna and Tierney (maybe Dykes) were the only two players who looked liked they had a clue what their jobs were over the two games.

If Tierney could have played the second game Clarke should be  shot for not continuing with that pairing.

[PASTA Mick]

I think the biggest concern for me is that after 10 games, Clarke doesn't seem to know his best XI or even his preferred formation and system.  I understand that teams need to have multiple ways of playing and as an average international side we will play very differently against the top teams in Europe than we will against the weakest teams.

On Friday he appeared to be trying to get all his best players on the pitch and it didn't work.  Last night he made 5 changes but things didn't really improve.  The only players missing that you'd want to include are probably Fraser and McBurnie.

On paper, we've played our easiest and most difficult match, but in reality, we've probably played our easiest two matches of the six games.  Next month is huge.  IF we can beat Israel and then get 4 or 6 points against Slovakia and Czech Rep, thing will be looking really good for us.  However, lose against Israel and the last 4 games could be a complete nightmare.  

One good thing is all the players should be match sharp in October.  I'm not sure that was the case for these two matches for most of the squad. 

[vanderark14]

53 minutes ago, SWMM82 said:

Souttar has never had a consistent run of games in his short career to date.... how many serious injuries has he amassed at just 23 years old?

My issue with McKenna is that for a player that showed a lot of promise 2/3 years ago, he hasn’t improved. In fact he has probably regressed. I would sooner have Porteous in there. Also keeping a close eye on George Johnstone at Feyenoord.

Mckenna wasn't great last season but has started this season differently, I actually think he was one of the few who looked reasonably composed for most of the two matches. People can talk about the opposition all they want but Mckenna did what was asked in a make shift partnership and a midfielder to his right. Give him and Cooper time to form a partnership in a back 4 with Tierney and Robertson along side them. 3 EPL defenders and a SPFL one with great potential sounds decent to me. 

[ParisInAKilt]

3 points. 

[Third Lanark]

2 hours ago, SWMM82 said:

Let’s just hope the cb debate is inconsequential in a few years time..... we’ve arguably got the best centre half pairing in Europe at youth level in Liam Morrison and Leon King👌🏼
 

The future back THREE....

King    Morrison    McTominay 😜

Now, King, Morrison and Tierney is appetising.

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, PASTA Mick said:

I think the biggest concern for me is that after 10 games, Clarke doesn't seem to know his best XI or even his preferred formation and system.  I understand that teams need to have multiple ways of playing and as an average international side we will play very differently against the top teams in Europe than we will against the weakest teams.

On Friday he appeared to be trying to get all his best players on the pitch and it didn't work.  Last night he made 5 changes but things didn't really improve.  The only players missing that you'd want to include are probably Fraser and McBurnie.

On paper, we've played our easiest and most difficult match, but in reality, we've probably played our easiest two matches of the six games.  Next month is huge.  IF we can beat Israel and then get 4 or 6 points against Slovakia and Czech Rep, thing will be looking really good for us.  However, lose against Israel and the last 4 games could be a complete nightmare.  

One good thing is all the players should be match sharp in October.  I'm not sure that was the case for these two matches for most of the squad. 

Now I know some on here will have apoplexy at this suggestion but Fraser - if he's playing on the right flank for Newcastle - could make a big difference: for one, he will challenge Forrest for his automatic place; and for the other, he could switch wings, so if he's in front of Robertson then Andy will feel more at home. So for me a 3-4-3 with Fraser, Dykes and Christie as the front 3.

[dandydunn]

4 hours ago, Parklife said:

Mckenna has shown both domestically and at international level that he's better than Souttar. He's also been pretty comfortable in both our games, so it's weird he's the one getting picked out for criticism. 

There’s been an agenda for McKenna bashing for quite a while now, on here and the various Facebook pages. I’m not saying he’s the finished article, far from it, but I dunno if it’s jealousy that people pick him out for because he’s been subject to interest from other teams, because he plays for Aberdeen, or because he’s made a couple of errors, but there’s been far worse players than him in every game that he’s played and he’s not the best in a back 3, just like everyone else that’s been asked to play in that position. He’s probably been one of the youngest players to captain the team in recent memory, so someone obviously rates him quite highly. 
 

There’s also a raging hard on for Soutter for some unknown reason, but as far as I can tell, he’s made 99 appearances in 4 seasons in a hearts team that’s been leaking goals for fun, I just don’t see the big deal with him. 

[ErsatzThistle]

Isn't Souttar more of a defensive midfielder anyway ? Circumstances forced him to play at centre back when he isn't out injured.

Anyway, he's just suffered yet another major injury (I think his third in as many years ?) and will be out for several months. In fact one more injury like that might force him to retire very early.

[mccaughey85]

3 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Mckenna wasn't great last season but has started this season differently, I actually think he was one of the few who looked reasonably composed for most of the two matches. People can talk about the opposition all they want but Mckenna did what was asked in a make shift partnership and a midfielder to his right. Give him and Cooper time to form a partnership in a back 4 with Tierney and Robertson along side them. 3 EPL defenders and a SPFL one with great potential sounds decent to me. 

Yeh mckenna is probably one of the few players to get pass marks during those two games. He looked reasonably composed albeit against poor opposition. 

[kiltedlegs]

if only Lee Wilkie was fit

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, dandydunn said:

There’s been an agenda for McKenna bashing for quite a while now, on here and the various Facebook pages. I’m not saying he’s the finished article, far from it, but I dunno if it’s jealousy that people pick him out for because he’s been subject to interest from other teams, because he plays for Aberdeen, or because he’s made a couple of errors, but there’s been far worse players than him in every game that he’s played and he’s not the best in a back 3, just like everyone else that’s been asked to play in that position. He’s probably been one of the youngest players to captain the team in recent memory, so someone obviously rates him quite highly. 
 

There’s also a raging hard on for Soutter for some unknown reason, but as far as I can tell, he’s made 99 appearances in 4 seasons in a hearts team that’s been leaking goals for fun, I just don’t see the big deal with him. 

In fairness a lot of Aberdeen fans  also felt he was going backwards so I'm not sure any stick was just because he played for the Dons. Unfortunately Soutter has picked up an awful lot of injuries for one so young.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Hertsscot

[Parklife]

5 hours ago, SWMM82 said:

Souttar has never had a consistent run of games in his short career to date.... how many serious injuries has he amassed at just 23 years old?

My issue with McKenna is that for a player that showed a lot of promise 2/3 years ago, he hasn’t improved. In fact he has probably regressed. I would sooner have Porteous in there. Also keeping a close eye on George Johnstone at Feyenoord.

Porteous?!?! Jesus. He's a walking liability. 

4 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

McKenna was just about the only plus point for me over the weekend. Your in a better position than me to decide what he is capable of.

Bottom line he played slap bang central of the back three and seemed more than comfortable with  the change of system. Like all our central defenders he plays on the left but would he be able to cope with moving  more right again to take up the right sided central defender role if we move to a back four.

McKenna and Tierney (maybe Dykes) were the only two players who looked liked they had a clue what their jobs were over the two games.

If Tierney could have played the second game Clarke should be  shot for not continuing with that pairing.

Yeah. I'm far from a huge McKenna fan but over the past two games he's been fine. Not quite sure what folk are seeing to be slagging him off over these games. 

4 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Mckenna wasn't great last season but has started this season differently, I actually think he was one of the few who looked reasonably composed for most of the two matches. People can talk about the opposition all they want but Mckenna did what was asked in a make shift partnership and a midfielder to his right. 

Agree totally. He's been decent this season. Hopefully the penny has dropped and he's realised that if he wants a big move, he'll have to kick on again. 

1 hour ago, dandydunn said:

There’s been an agenda for McKenna bashing for quite a while now, on here and the various Facebook pages. I’m not saying he’s the finished article, far from it, but I dunno if it’s jealousy that people pick him out for because he’s been subject to interest from other teams, because he plays for Aberdeen, or because he’s made a couple of errors, but there’s been far worse players than him in every game that he’s played and he’s not the best in a back 3, just like everyone else that’s been asked to play in that position. He’s probably been one of the youngest players to captain the team in recent memory, so someone obviously rates him quite highly. 
 

There’s also a raging hard on for Soutter for some unknown reason, but as far as I can tell, he’s made 99 appearances in 4 seasons in a hearts team that’s been leaking goals for fun, I just don’t see the big deal with him. 

Agree on the bashing of McKenna. Folk seem to want to slag him off at every opportunity these days. 

I always liked the idea of a McKenna & Souttar partnership. McKenna is a decent defender But has poor distribution and Souttar is a dodgy defender but can play a bit. If we combine them We've got one very good centre half 😂

[Jim Beem]

1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Isn't Souttar more of a defensive midfielder anyway ? Circumstances forced him to play at centre back when he isn't out injured.

Anyway, he's just suffered yet another major injury (I think his third in as many years ?) and will be out for several months. In fact one more injury like that might force him to retire very early.

Souttar was a superb talent at United but he was, or at least should have been destined for the defensive midfield role. He was forever getting rag dolled at centre back and even more infuriating was that he continually made the same mistakes. I always liked the guy but his inability to learn from the same mistakes had me questioning his attitude or focus at times. Not seen that much of McKenna but he strikes me as a typical big strong centre back, a bit limited and basic but does what it says in the tin. Never going to be a world beater but probably the best we have right now. A completely different player to Souttar in my opinion.  

[mccaughey85]

11 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

Of course. 

Well obviously you disagree but imo we didn't look that great apart from the goal and another nice bit of skill from dapo mebude. We only had about three attempts on goal including the goal and we didn't keep possession particularly well. We defended well but Germany dominated the possession and were really poor in the final third. Its good getting results at youth level but it wasn't some free flowing football from us that some would like you to believe.

 

[er yir macaroon]

38 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Well obviously you disagree but imo we didn't look that great apart from the goal and another nice bit of skill from dapo mebude. We only had about three attempts on goal including the goal and we didn't keep possession particularly well. We defended well but Germany dominated the possession and were really poor in the final third. Its good getting results at youth level but it wasn't some free flowing football from us that some would like you to believe.

 

You’re right, I don’t agree. We were excellent in possession and deserved to win the game. 

[SWMM82]

4 hours ago, Parklife said:

Porteous?!?! Jesus. He's a walking liability. 

Porteous can be rash yes.... but he’s no more of a liability than McKenna. For me, Porteous is more mobile and better on the ball and he’s a leader. McKenna showed promise a couple of years ago but hasn’t kicked on, hence why we’re even debating his inclusion. He should’ve nailed that position by now. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by SWMM82

[mccaughey85]

Anybody watched the Norway v ni highlights. Haaland is a scary good. Guys got unbelievable pace and skill. He's as fast as burke but with finishing, dribbling and passing skills. He is unselfish as well with his pass to sorloth to get the 4th. Can't see us coping with him if we make the final. 

[kiltedlegs]

1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

Anybody watched the Norway v ni highlights. Haaland is a scary good. Guys got unbelievable pace and skill. He's as fast as burke but with finishing, dribbling and passing skills. He is unselfish as well with his pass to sorloth to get the 4th. Can't see us coping with him if we make the final. 

We will be destroyed if we're playing them. 

[Parklife]

36 minutes ago, SWMM82 said:

Porteous can be rash yes.... but he’s no more of a liability than McKenna. For me, Porteous is more mobile and better on the ball and he’s a leader. McKenna showed promise a couple of years ago but hasn’t kicked on, hence why we’re even debating his inclusion. He should’ve nailed that position by now. 

He's none of those things IMO. He's also a total liability. Doubt he'll progress beyond Hibs tbh. I've never quite understood why a few folk think he's something special. 

[daviebee]

15 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Anybody watched the Norway v ni highlights. Haaland is a scary good. Guys got unbelievable pace and skill. He's as fast as burke but with finishing, dribbling and passing skills. He is unselfish as well with his pass to sorloth to get the 4th. Can't see us coping with him if we make the final. 

Aye I'd have nightmares every night before we were due to play them.  20 years old as well.  He's going to be some machine.  Why the hell can't we produce guys like that?

[SWMM82]

5 minutes ago, Parklife said:

He's none of those things IMO. He's also a total liability. Doubt he'll progress beyond Hibs tbh. I've never quite understood why a few folk think he's something special. 

Never said he was anything special, I just don’t rate McKenna. Porteous has played every minute of the season so far for a Hibs side that have started the season well and been solid at the back. Scotland u21s don’t concede many goals either and his leadership at the back is a major factor in that. 

I don’t think it’s bonkers to say he should be considered.... especially when we are so lacklustre at centre half.