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Plus points tonight ?


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1 minute ago, Taylor1996 said:

Well,  you said that it was ridiculous that I think the u17s would beat Czech D and you called me arrogant, even before I suggested that you didn't watch it.

It's cool, though. We'll just agree to disagree. 🙂

I hope that I'm right, too. There's a kid at Man City, Lewis Fiorini, who I hope we cap soon. Otherwise I sense another Rice/Grealish thing. I definitely think the u17/19s are light years above the current players... Even now.

Yeah, I agree with all that.

It's going to be a long road. It'll take patience. We'll look awful and we'll have to endure defeats, but I truly believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

You suggested first of all that I didn't watch closely enough which is when I said you were arrogant and it is ridiculous to suggest the u17s would beat our senior team or any other senior team. 

 

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Big thing for me is how slowly some of our players like McGreggor, McLean and Christie move the ball. Thats the big difference ive seen between them and Mctomminay. McLean and McGreggor in particular never seem to do anything wrong. They get the ball, take a touch, look up and then pass it safely to the player in space. 

Problem with how they do it is that the opposition can see it a mile away and the time afforded gives them time to shuffle across. 

Its noticeable with McTomminay and Gilmour that as they are receiving the ball they already have a picture of whats happening. They then ping the ball with pace to the player. That saved 2 or 3 seconds is the difference between Robertson being able to take a touch and out a cross in and having to take a touch and pass back to a centre half. 

Something our "pundits" seem incapable of picking up on. Its no wonder we cant break teams down with the pace we pass the ball about.

 

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9 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Well,  you said that it was ridiculous that I think the u17s would beat Czech D and you called me arrogant, even before I suggested that you didn't watch it.

It's cool, though. We'll just agree to disagree. 🙂

I hope that I'm right, too. There's a kid at Man City, Lewis Fiorini, who I hope we cap soon. Otherwise I sense another Rice/Grealish thing. I definitely think the u17/19s are light years above the current players... Even now.

Yeah, I agree with all that.

It's going to be a long road. It'll take patience. We'll look awful and we'll have to endure defeats, but I truly believe that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I genuinely think we have the players to qualify for a tournament now. If everyone turned up and our manager could find a system that could utilise our best players, then we should already be capable. 

However, our confidence has been decimated. Even 4 wins out of 5 isn't enough to create belief. A healthier dressing room and some player power could change everything. 

I don't think we should be calling up players that haven't broken into the first team yet, but the likes of Gilmour has already shown he belongs in international football. I was gutted when he got that injury. 

I worry that this playoff is going to come a little bit too soon for this promising group of players.

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Just now, mccaughey85 said:

You suggested first of all that I didn't watch closely enough which is when I said you were arrogant and it is ridiculous to suggest the u17s would beat our senior team or any other senior team. 

 

Fair enough.

It's a great weekend (football wise and in general) so I'm not spoiling for a fight.

We will just wait and see what the future holds. Trust me, though, I am not the most positive of fans, so for me to feel optimistic is quite something.

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1 minute ago, Tartan blood said:

I genuinely think we have the players to qualify for a tournament now. If everyone turned up and our manager could find a system that could utilise our best players, then we should already be capable. 

However, our confidence has been decimated. Even 4 wins out of 5 isn't enough to create belief. A healthier dressing room and some player power could change everything. 

I don't think we should be calling up players that haven't broken into the first team yet, but the likes of Gilmour has already shown he belongs in international football. I was gutted when he got that injury. 

I worry that this playoff is going to come a little bit too soon for this promising group of players.

Oh. This playoff has come three years too soon. 

I think we have a handful of decent players, but not near enough to qualify. I was watching ESPN, Craig Burley was commentating. He said that we would contribute nothing if we qualified I agree. Theresa reason why teams qualify through the back door. We aren't even good enough to do that.

As I said, give it a few years, hopefully the performance kids progress, and then we'll see.

People had better get used to things. This will be normality for a while... And remember... It can always get worse.

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9 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Big thing for me is how slowly some of our players like McGreggor, McLean and Christie move the ball. Thats the big difference ive seen between them and Mctomminay. McLean and McGreggor in particular never seem to do anything wrong. They get the ball, take a touch, look up and then pass it safely to the player in space. 

Brilliant point.

People see McLean in the EPL (last season), McGregor and Christie dominate in the SPL, and they get carried away by thinking that they're good. They aren't good. They're average.

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Positives from tonight / Friday 

Obviously - 5 games undefeated (4 wins)  and Top of Group B having ticked off probably the hardest fixture 

 

Team performance


GK     -    Marshall looked good in both games

DEF 

  • I though McKenna was good in both games
  • Tierney excellent on Friday
  • I through Robertson was better today. 
  • We defended set pieces pretty well
  • We tried out a new formation with limited success.
    • I think with McTom’s physique, athleticism and passing ability both Clark and Man Utd would love if he could play CB at times, so we have had a fairly free shot at testing him out there for 2 full games, with very little is riding on the games. I’m not sure it worked or that he will play there again anytime soon but at very least he now has some experience in there if he does play there.

Midfield    

  • Jack played well on Friday 
  • McGinn looked good in both games

Attack

  • Lyndon Dykes has been excellent.
  • Really good 1st goal tonight , good build up and finish 
  • His hold up play was pretty good aswell

 

  • Christie took both his pens well and played pretty well in both games.
  • Patterson also looked decent in both boxes when he came on tonight 

        
    

  • We created more tonight that some people seem to remember
  • 3 solid goal scoring chance
    •  Christie shot from robbo cut back just before the pen
    • Patterson shot 
    • Christie / McGregor breakaway 
  • We were on top after they scored right up until we scored and again the start of the 2nd half until we scored.


Areas to improve
We started slowly tonight and  we let them come on to us after we scored.

Midfield is meant to be our areas of strength but ti think they were a bit over run at times tonight with is a bit of a worry, oi though jack played well on Friday and id expect him to return.

I’m not sure the formation entirely worked and id expect use to revert to 4 at the back in the play off.
Forrest struggled as a wing back covering the distances, he is much better in short bursts of speed around the box.

I think u would still get the width from robbo or Tierney as a full back in a 4. My preference would be to play KT at right back, plenty right footed player play left back.

Clark is always going to be a pragmatic manager, so not expecting expansive football,  I think we look more solid than we did before he took over but there is still work to do and really need to be pushing for those clean sheets.  

 

 

Overall I think we should be pretty positive 4 points from 2 games against what is our level.
Ok that was a c team today, but they were still decent and we have struggled against worst teams. We were on a hiding to nothing but we won and go the job done, something we have failed at in the past.

A 3rd goal on he break tonight would have killed the game and put a much more positive spin on the game,

Looking forward to the playoffs and think we have a very strong chance of winning.

 

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4 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Brilliant point.

People see McLean in the EPL (last season), McGregor and Christie dominate in the SPL, and they get carried away by thinking that they're good. They aren't good. They're average.

Yeh no ones suggesting they are world beaters but they should be able to play well against Israel and a Czech c/d team. Our midfield options are better than both the teams we have played this week but they have played poorly. 

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3 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Yeh no ones suggesting they are world beaters but they should be able to play well against Israel and a Czech c/d team. Our midfield options are better than both the teams we have played this week but they have played poorly. 

To be honest, I'm at the stage now where I would do something radical. Players like Forrest, McGregor, etc, have had enough chances.

They might look good in the SPL, but they're playing against free transfers and teams with no disposable money. Clearly, the Czech team tonight wasn't the best, but it would probably best 10 out of 12 SPL sides.

Things will probably get worse before they get better. And tonight, it sounds like most people are on cliffs...

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7 minutes ago, HandofRhod said:

Positives from tonight / Friday 

Obviously - 5 games undefeated (4 wins)  and Top of Group B having ticked off probably the hardest fixture 

 

Team performance


GK     -    Marshall looked good in both games

DEF 

  • I though McKenna was good in both games
  • Tierney excellent on Friday
  • I through Robertson was better today. 
  • We defended set pieces pretty well
  • We tried out a new formation with limited success.
    • I think with McTom’s physique, athleticism and passing ability both Clark and Man Utd would love if he could play CB at times, so we have had a fairly free shot at testing him out there for 2 full games, with very little is riding on the games. I’m not sure it worked or that he will play there again anytime soon but at very least he now has some experience in there if he does play there.

Midfield    

  • Jack played well on Friday 
  • McGinn looked good in both games

Attack

  • Lyndon Dykes has been excellent.
  • Really good 1st goal tonight , good build up and finish 
  • His hold up play was pretty good aswell

 

  • Christie took both his pens well and played pretty well in both games.
  • Patterson also looked decent in both boxes when he came on tonight 

        
    

  • We created more tonight that some people seem to remember
  • 3 solid goal scoring chance
    •  Christie shot from robbo cut back just before the pen
    • Patterson shot 
    • Christie / McGregor breakaway 
  • We were on top after they scored right up until we scored and again the start of the 2nd half until we scored.


Areas to improve
We started slowly tonight and  we let them come on to us after we scored.

Midfield is meant to be our areas of strength but ti think they were a bit over run at times tonight with is a bit of a worry, oi though jack played well on Friday and id expect him to return.

I’m not sure the formation entirely worked and id expect use to revert to 4 at the back in the play off.
Forrest struggled as a wing back covering the distances, he is much better in short bursts of speed around the box.

I think u would still get the width from robbo or Tierney as a full back in a 4. My preference would be to play KT at right back, plenty right footed player play left back.

Clark is always going to be a pragmatic manager, so not expecting expansive football,  I think we look more solid than we did before he took over but there is still work to do and really need to be pushing for those clean sheets.  

 

 

Overall I think we should be pretty positive 4 points from 2 games against what is our level.
Ok that was a c team today, but they were still decent and we have struggled against worst teams. We were on a hiding to nothing but we won and go the job done, something we have failed at in the past.

A 3rd goal on he break tonight would have killed the game and put a much more positive spin on the game,

Looking forward to the playoffs and think we have a very strong chance of winning.

 

I think you are putting a positive spin on alot of those bullet points. 

Only a few players get pass marks from these two games. Marshall, Tierney, Dykes and maybe mckenna. We got lucky with two soft penalties. It was hard to watch us struggle against two rubbish sides. 

We could easily of drawn that game tonight and we will struggle in these play off games if we play like we did tonight. 

We have a very slim chance of making the euros, I just can't see this team beating Serbia or Norway. 

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6 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Big thing for me is how slowly some of our players like McGreggor, McLean and Christie move the ball. Thats the big difference ive seen between them and Mctomminay. McLean and McGreggor in particular never seem to do anything wrong. They get the ball, take a touch, look up and then pass it safely to the player in space. 

Problem with how they do it is that the opposition can see it a mile away and the time afforded gives them time to shuffle across. 

Its noticeable with McTomminay and Gilmour that as they are receiving the ball they already have a picture of whats happening. They then ping the ball with pace to the player. That saved 2 or 3 seconds is the difference between Robertson being able to take a touch and out a cross in and having to take a touch and pass back to a centre half. 

Something our "pundits" seem incapable of picking up on. Its no wonder we cant break teams down with the pace we pass the ball about.

 

McLean gave the ball away atleast 6 times last night 

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1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

McLean gave the ball away atleast 6 times last night 

No idea how often they did it but christie, robertson, armstrong and palmer gave the ball away too. 

Liam cooper had the greatest pass to fresh air.

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The only plus point is we somehow managed to come out of both games still unbeaten, but even that may turn out to be a bad point as it is just papering over some massive cracks in the team! Those two performances were up there with some of the worst I have seen from a Scotland team, really really bad, disjointed, slow and ponderous, gave the ball away easily all over the park, pressing was erratic and not as a unit, no pattern to our play or any clear indication of how we were set up to score a goal apart from punt it long to dykes or down the line, it was so bad. Absolute night and day from how Strachan used to set up his team, I thought Strachan had his time, but he had built something, he had a style of play we weren't far away we needed someone to come in and build on it, we have just regressed massively, and even more worryingly after what 10 or 11 games now Clarke still does not have a clue what his best system or best 11 is!! That is dangerous. Clarke is a good manager so I hope this was just experimental from him and I hope he does have a clear plan moving forward but if that was it those last two games then we have no hope 

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8 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Big thing for me is how slowly some of our players like McGreggor, McLean and Christie move the ball. Thats the big difference ive seen between them and Mctomminay. McLean and McGreggor in particular never seem to do anything wrong. They get the ball, take a touch, look up and then pass it safely to the player in space. 

Problem with how they do it is that the opposition can see it a mile away and the time afforded gives them time to shuffle across. 

Its noticeable with McTomminay and Gilmour that as they are receiving the ball they already have a picture of whats happening. They then ping the ball with pace to the player. That saved 2 or 3 seconds is the difference between Robertson being able to take a touch and out a cross in and having to take a touch and pass back to a centre half. 

Something our "pundits" seem incapable of picking up on. Its no wonder we cant break teams down with the pace we pass the ball about.

 

Yup, was saying the same last night. Everything we do is half paced. There's no urgency to move the ball quickly. It's easy to defend against and results in us passing it around our back line for the majority of our possession. 

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9 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Big thing for me is how slowly some of our players like McGreggor, McLean and Christie move the ball. Thats the big difference ive seen between them and Mctomminay. McLean and McGreggor in particular never seem to do anything wrong. They get the ball, take a touch, look up and then pass it safely to the player in space. 

Problem with how they do it is that the opposition can see it a mile away and the time afforded gives them time to shuffle across. 

Its noticeable with McTomminay and Gilmour that as they are receiving the ball they already have a picture of whats happening. They then ping the ball with pace to the player. That saved 2 or 3 seconds is the difference between Robertson being able to take a touch and out a cross in and having to take a touch and pass back to a centre half. 

Something our "pundits" seem incapable of picking up on. Its no wonder we cant break teams down with the pace we pass the ball about.

 

I picked up on this last night about how slow the whole team are in closing down and attacking. Ponderous. The negativity was stark too. There was a point when we were counter-attacking and won a free-kick about 10 yards inside their half. Their players were still back peddling. We got the ball down quickly to take it - and fucking passed it 20 yards back into our own half. That sums up our play in the last two matches.

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Take away from both matches....

First and foremost and this one will really divide opinion.... McTominay is not good enough either as a central defender OR defensive midfielder...... the Man Utd fans will testify to this as well. Sadly his game hasn’t really developed and he has regressed with regards to his position in the Man Utd team. 

McKenna didn’t do much wrong the past two games, rugby tackle aside, but he is not international level. If we could only get Souttar fit again..... 

There’s no doubt McGregor is in poor form but he’s a good player and will be an asset for us. 
I genuinely believe that Jack is our best defensive midfielder at the present time. Not a creative player, but breaks up play better than anyone and he’s comfortable on the ball.

A lot of debate about formation, but the three at the back experiment isn’t working. Nullifies Robertson’s best asset coming from deep and overlapping. Would play Tierney at RB or LCB.

Armstrong was very poor last night, but he is technically one of the best players in the squad and will improve with games. 
Christie again is a player I would always have in the starting line up for his energy, and he’s got good ability... tries too hard at times though!

Forrest is still the best option for me on the right, but not as a wing back. 

Dykes hold up play was generally good and his goal last night showed great strikers instinct but tired quickly in both games. Hopefully fitness isn’t an issue for him because he is a real asset going forward.

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10 minutes ago, SWMM82 said:



McKenna didn’t do much wrong the past two games, rugby tackle aside, but he is not international level. If we could only get Souttar fit again..... .

Mckenna has shown both domestically and at international level that he's better than Souttar. He's also been pretty comfortable in both our games, so it's weird he's the one getting picked out for criticism. 

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10 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Big thing for me is how slowly some of our players like McGreggor, McLean and Christie move the ball. Thats the big difference ive seen between them and Mctomminay. McLean and McGreggor in particular never seem to do anything wrong. They get the ball, take a touch, look up and then pass it safely to the player in space. 

Problem with how they do it is that the opposition can see it a mile away and the time afforded gives them time to shuffle across. 

Its noticeable with McTomminay and Gilmour that as they are receiving the ball they already have a picture of whats happening. They then ping the ball with pace to the player. That saved 2 or 3 seconds is the difference between Robertson being able to take a touch and out a cross in and having to take a touch and pass back to a centre half. 

Something our "pundits" seem incapable of picking up on. Its no wonder we cant break teams down with the pace we pass the ball about.

 

Completely agree. You can see that McTominay and Gilmour are at Man Utd and Chelsea and the others are at Celtic and Norwich.

Robertson was caught offside a few times because the guy that was trying to pass to him couldn't see it quickly enough.

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8 minutes ago, Parklife said:

Mckenna has shown both domestically and at international level that he's better than Souttar. He's also been pretty comfortable in both our games, so it's weird he's the one getting picked out for criticism. 

Souttar’s career has been blighted by injury. If he had a consistent run of games, there is no doubt to me, that he would be a better option than McKenna. 

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2 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said:

Completely agree. You can see that McTominay and Gilmour are at Man Utd and Chelsea and the others are at Celtic and Norwich.

Robertson was caught offside a few times because the guy that was trying to pass to him couldn't see it quickly enough.

I am concerned with Gilmour, just like man utd, chelsea have went for it in the transfer market, his chances may be even more limited at chelsea this season.

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5 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I am concerned with Gilmour, just like man utd, chelsea have went for it in the transfer market, his chances may be even more limited at chelsea this season.

I don't think any of their signings play in his position so unless there are more to come, which of course there could be, then he shouldn't be any further down the pecking order than he was last season.

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