adamntg Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said: The game against the Hong Kong League XI has never been recognised by FIFA so Warren Cummings has no caps for Scotland. Appearances and goals scored in that game don't count either. The SFA arranged that game at the last minute so that Vogts could finally record a win. Bob Malcolm was called up at least once by Vogts but he never played. He has no caps. Jamie Smith was quite a promising young player at Celtic but injuries screwed his career. With the benefit of hindsight, Vogts would have been slightly better off picking players like Robbie Winters, Charlie Miller, Alex Rae & Dougie Freedman (all four of whom he ignored) than some of the others he picked. Kenny Miller kept getting injured during the first half of Vogts time in charge which didn't help either. Again with hindsight, Paul Gallacher should really have been our first choice goalkeeper rather than Rab Douglas. The other Paul Gallagher, the one from Blackburn. Fair enough on WATP Malcolm. Edited September 7, 2020 by adamntg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Should be McLeans last cap. For Christ sake get McTominay back into midfield, so out of place and uncomfortable at the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) The pessimist says we've been too dire too long. But can our fortunate result turn into confidence? Edited September 7, 2020 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu101 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Fuck that. We dont deserve to play at any finals for a long time. The shape, tactics, press, movement, runnning, switching were all over the shop. I'm still not sure who was playing where. Why was McTominay at the back?! Marshall man of the match imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Just now, exile said: The pessimist says we've been too dire too long. But can our fortunate survival turn into confidence? The pessimist says we can't keep playing so rubbish and getting away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) Marshall is the only player to emerge with any credit from that omnishambles Edited September 7, 2020 by slasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, dandydunn said: McTominay was a bomb scare all night. Agreed but it’s not his fault. He should be nowhere near the defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 I don't understand the back three, that's twice now McTominay has (through no fault of his own) been found wanting. If Clarke continues with a three I don't know who would take McTominay's place. The midfield still isn't right, the result is good, Dykes has been a positive but other than that we seem to be no further forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said: And that is why I am not a football manager. Two great crosses from Palmer and a tidy finish from Dykes. Well done to both players. I take the Palmer part back - he reverted to being his normal useless self throughout the entire second half. David Marshall MoM by some distance. Dykes ran his guts out and scored a decent goal. None of the rest put in anything close to an acceptable performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandydunn Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Texas Pete said: Agreed but it’s not his fault. He should be nowhere near the defence. Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 McLean was fucking dreadful. Gave the Czechs the ball every friggin time he could. McKenna needs to realise that he might get away with manhandling players around the box in the Scottish premiership but not at international level. Well done Dykes Was sorry that big Paterson missed that chance he had. He loves playing for Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, mentalist said: Has Crock of Shit said "Scotland always do things the hard way" yet? Cos if he hasn't I guarantee the bastard will soon. Maybe if we stopped supplying him with ample ammunition then he wouldn't have cause to say it. Edited September 7, 2020 by Barney Rubble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLT NY Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, dandydunn said: McTominay was a bomb scare all night. Mclean, Christie, Armstrong were all horrific. This exactly. Marshall was man of the match by a mile. Without him they'd have had 3 or 4, and without the post they'd have had another couple. I'd have been happy with a 2-1 before the game but this performance (and Israel) was so bad I'm feeling nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekevie04 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 That was probably worse than Friday. Well done Czech's make shift team. They were put together on Saturday night, at most they've had two training sessions - two players among their team had been capped. We looked like the side cobbled together. So slow, cumbersome, and poor basic skills - how many times do we needesley give it away or can't even pass it straight or string 5-6 passes together before its back to a red shirt. We were offside about 10 times to their 1 ; they had 7 corners to our 0 ; and they had about 18 chances to our 3. We were lucky with the penalty, incredibly lucky. They had massive gaps (just like we did) yet the Czechs actually caused problems in the gaps. Palmer is mince ; Cooper doesn't look great ; Haaland vs McKenna is a frightening thought ; Armstrong was horrendous ; Christie trying way too much and very little of it paying off ; Fleck did alright ; MacLean isn't good enough yet probably did the best out of the starters in midfield ; Robertson is not a captain, and Tierney is better IMO ; McTominay is rank as a defender. Positives : McGinn actually looked good on the ball and in a better side with quicker thinking players might have caused issues for their team. Dykes looks decent. He's probably not good enough at a high level, but he worked his arse off in both games, and some intelligent play. Looks more a player than McBurnie has in his 9 caps. Marshall is a decent keeper. Not brilliant, but helped us a fair few times. As for Clarke, I am not sure at all. Why try a formation you are supposedly aiming to fit KT and Robbo in to and not play one of them. He's too slow to makes changes, 61st minute before the first change? Is he another Levein with his stubborn ness to show he's boss? I like the guy, but he's not exactly inspirational nor the master coach some have tried to make him out to be. We are top of the group by a massive luck of the green by playing a Czech B/C team. I doubt anyone was predicting us hammering them, but to be under the cosh, have absolutely nothing going forward again, horrendous huge gaps that the normal Czech side would easily open up in to. We would have lost about 4-0 tonight, if not for a huge bit of fortune. You could argue we are top of the group and unbeaten in five games as a positive. And, we've got Israel coming up who we may well sneak though against yet coming up against Serbia or Norway ; we will surely be put to the sword and handsomely so ; and even if we do shit out a sponny 1-0 win in both games, do we really want to be at the Euros? At least we are forgotten about just now ; if we make it and you've got the world viewing us embarrassing ourselves at a major finals? We can't even do basic things right. String 5 or 6 passes together. The panic of just blootering it out to anywhere, no creation or invention in the team. No one good enough to trouble defenders up front. Dykes and Shankland look average enough players and I like what they've done in Scotland jersey, sadly they are not good enough to play against better teams - or to score and break down defenders of better teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 All too familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, weekevie04 said: That was probably worse than Friday. Well done Czech's make shift team. They were put together on Saturday night, at most they've had two training sessions - two players among their team had been capped. We looked like the side cobbled together. So slow, cumbersome, and poor basic skills - how many times do we needesley give it away or can't even pass it straight or string 5-6 passes together before its back to a red shirt. We were offside about 10 times to their 1 ; they had 7 corners to our 0 ; and they had about 18 chances to our 3. We were lucky with the penalty, incredibly lucky. They had massive gaps (just like we did) yet the Czechs actually caused problems in the gaps. Palmer is mince ; Cooper doesn't look great ; Haaland vs McKenna is a frightening thought ; Armstrong was horrendous ; Christie trying way too much and very little of it paying off ; Fleck did alright ; MacLean isn't good enough yet probably did the best out of the starters in midfield ; Robertson is not a captain, and Tierney is better IMO ; McTominay is rank as a defender. Positives : McGinn actually looked good on the ball and in a better side with quicker thinking players might have caused issues for their team. Dykes looks decent. He's probably not good enough at a high level, but he worked his arse off in both games, and some intelligent play. Looks more a player than McBurnie has in his 9 caps. Marshall is a decent keeper. Not brilliant, but helped us a fair few times. As for Clarke, I am not sure at all. Why try a formation you are supposedly aiming to fit KT and Robbo in to and not play one of them. He's too slow to makes changes, 61st minute before the first change? Is he another Levein with his stubborn ness to show he's boss? I like the guy, but he's not exactly inspirational nor the master coach some have tried to make him out to be. We are top of the group by a massive luck of the green by playing a Czech B/C team. I doubt anyone was predicting us hammering them, but to be under the cosh, have absolutely nothing going forward again, horrendous huge gaps that the normal Czech side would easily open up in to. We would have lost about 4-0 tonight, if not for a huge bit of fortune. You could argue we are top of the group and unbeaten in five games as a positive. And, we've got Israel coming up who we may well sneak though against yet coming up against Serbia or Norway ; we will surely be put to the sword and handsomely so ; and even if we do shit out a sponny 1-0 win in both games, do we really want to be at the Euros? At least we are forgotten about just now ; if we make it and you've got the world viewing us embarrassing ourselves at a major finals? We can't even do basic things right. String 5 or 6 passes together. The panic of just blootering it out to anywhere, no creation or invention in the team. No one good enough to trouble defenders up front. Dykes and Shankland look average enough players and I like what they've done in Scotland jersey, sadly they are not good enough to play against better teams - or to score and break down defenders of better teams. Utterly depressing. I'd agree almost 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 feck knows where we go from here Marshall tierney. McKenna Cooper. Robertson Armstrong Mctominay fleck mcginn Christie Dykes its horrible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, mariokempes56 said: Utterly depressing. I'd agree almost 100%. Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 3 hours ago, runningtings said: ------------------- Marshall Palmer Cooper McKenna Robertson ------------- Fleck McLean Christie McTominay Armstrong ------------------ Dykes Shame we never got to see that team tonight in that formation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringo Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, Hertsscot said: I don't understand the back three, that's twice now McTominay has (through no fault of his own) been found wanting. If Clarke continues with a three I don't know who would take McTominay's place. The midfield still isn't right, the result is good, Dykes has been a positive but other than that we seem to be no further forward. Playing McTominay there once was bad enough but to do it twice in a few days is mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProudScot Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, weekevie04 said: That was probably worse than Friday. Well done Czech's make shift team. They were put together on Saturday night, at most they've had two training sessions - two players among their team had been capped. We looked like the side cobbled together. So slow, cumbersome, and poor basic skills - how many times do we needesley give it away or can't even pass it straight or string 5-6 passes together before its back to a red shirt. We were offside about 10 times to their 1 ; they had 7 corners to our 0 ; and they had about 18 chances to our 3. We were lucky with the penalty, incredibly lucky. They had massive gaps (just like we did) yet the Czechs actually caused problems in the gaps. Palmer is mince ; Cooper doesn't look great ; Haaland vs McKenna is a frightening thought ; Armstrong was horrendous ; Christie trying way too much and very little of it paying off ; Fleck did alright ; MacLean isn't good enough yet probably did the best out of the starters in midfield ; Robertson is not a captain, and Tierney is better IMO ; McTominay is rank as a defender. Positives : McGinn actually looked good on the ball and in a better side with quicker thinking players might have caused issues for their team. Dykes looks decent. He's probably not good enough at a high level, but he worked his arse off in both games, and some intelligent play. Looks more a player than McBurnie has in his 9 caps. Marshall is a decent keeper. Not brilliant, but helped us a fair few times. As for Clarke, I am not sure at all. Why try a formation you are supposedly aiming to fit KT and Robbo in to and not play one of them. He's too slow to makes changes, 61st minute before the first change? Is he another Levein with his stubborn ness to show he's boss? I like the guy, but he's not exactly inspirational nor the master coach some have tried to make him out to be. We are top of the group by a massive luck of the green by playing a Czech B/C team. I doubt anyone was predicting us hammering them, but to be under the cosh, have absolutely nothing going forward again, horrendous huge gaps that the normal Czech side would easily open up in to. We would have lost about 4-0 tonight, if not for a huge bit of fortune. You could argue we are top of the group and unbeaten in five games as a positive. And, we've got Israel coming up who we may well sneak though against yet coming up against Serbia or Norway ; we will surely be put to the sword and handsomely so ; and even if we do shit out a sponny 1-0 win in both games, do we really want to be at the Euros? At least we are forgotten about just now ; if we make it and you've got the world viewing us embarrassing ourselves at a major finals? We can't even do basic things right. String 5 or 6 passes together. The panic of just blootering it out to anywhere, no creation or invention in the team. No one good enough to trouble defenders up front. Dykes and Shankland look average enough players and I like what they've done in Scotland jersey, sadly they are not good enough to play against better teams - or to score and break down defenders of better teams. Depressingly accurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrisandmoo Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, weekevie04 said: That was probably worse than Friday. Well done Czech's make shift team. They were put together on Saturday night, at most they've had two training sessions - two players among their team had been capped. We looked like the side cobbled together. So slow, cumbersome, and poor basic skills - how many times do we needesley give it away or can't even pass it straight or string 5-6 passes together before its back to a red shirt. We were offside about 10 times to their 1 ; they had 7 corners to our 0 ; and they had about 18 chances to our 3. We were lucky with the penalty, incredibly lucky. They had massive gaps (just like we did) yet the Czechs actually caused problems in the gaps. Palmer is mince ; Cooper doesn't look great ; Haaland vs McKenna is a frightening thought ; Armstrong was horrendous ; Christie trying way too much and very little of it paying off ; Fleck did alright ; MacLean isn't good enough yet probably did the best out of the starters in midfield ; Robertson is not a captain, and Tierney is better IMO ; McTominay is rank as a defender. Positives : McGinn actually looked good on the ball and in a better side with quicker thinking players might have caused issues for their team. Dykes looks decent. He's probably not good enough at a high level, but he worked his arse off in both games, and some intelligent play. Looks more a player than McBurnie has in his 9 caps. Marshall is a decent keeper. Not brilliant, but helped us a fair few times. As for Clarke, I am not sure at all. Why try a formation you are supposedly aiming to fit KT and Robbo in to and not play one of them. He's too slow to makes changes, 61st minute before the first change? Is he another Levein with his stubborn ness to show he's boss? I like the guy, but he's not exactly inspirational nor the master coach some have tried to make him out to be. We are top of the group by a massive luck of the green by playing a Czech B/C team. I doubt anyone was predicting us hammering them, but to be under the cosh, have absolutely nothing going forward again, horrendous huge gaps that the normal Czech side would easily open up in to. We would have lost about 4-0 tonight, if not for a huge bit of fortune. You could argue we are top of the group and unbeaten in five games as a positive. And, we've got Israel coming up who we may well sneak though against yet coming up against Serbia or Norway ; we will surely be put to the sword and handsomely so ; and even if we do shit out a sponny 1-0 win in both games, do we really want to be at the Euros? At least we are forgotten about just now ; if we make it and you've got the world viewing us embarrassing ourselves at a major finals? We can't even do basic things right. String 5 or 6 passes together. The panic of just blootering it out to anywhere, no creation or invention in the team. No one good enough to trouble defenders up front. Dykes and Shankland look average enough players and I like what they've done in Scotland jersey, sadly they are not good enough to play against better teams - or to score and break down defenders of better teams. I'm just going to quote this too. Nothing else needs to be said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningtings Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Well summed up weekev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksburnDandy Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Undeniably poor again tonight but the history books will only show a 2-1 win in the Czech Republic so let's be thankful for that. First the handful of positives - Marshall was superb, Dykes once again very good, Christie looked bright again, Armstrong was decent and McKenna again looked pretty comfortable, twice in a week for the big guy. In terms of players, really not sure how Kenny McLean lasted 90 minutes out there as he was brutally bad. Palmer was dozy tonight, McTominay isn't a centre half but that's not his fault that everyone wants to shoehorn him in there. The same faults as Friday in terms of the formation, it stunted any creativity we had going forward and once Clarke did his usual sitting back tactic once we got the lead, the centre of midfield was too light in numbers leading to an onslaught for the defence. Ultimately we are more comfortable playing 4-5-1/4-2-3-1/4-3-3 and I would like to see us revert back to that for the playoffs. A word for the Czechs who were a decent team and probably would be a good League C outfit if given time and preparation, better than a number of countries we've been beat by (Georgia and Kazakhstan to name two). Ultimately to play poorly over two games and get four points is a positive but we desperately need to see signs of progress soon under Clarke as it was difficult to take too much positives over the last two matches. However, top of the league and probably a point better off than I thought we would be so I'll take that as my positive viewpoint for tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, BucksburnDandy said: Undeniably poor again tonight but the history books will only show a 2-1 win in the Czech Republic so let's be thankful for that. First the handful of positives - Marshall was superb, Dykes once again very good, Christie looked bright again, Armstrong was decent and McKenna again looked pretty comfortable, twice in a week for the big guy. In terms of players, really not sure how Kenny McLean lasted 90 minutes out there as he was brutally bad. Palmer was dozy tonight, McTominay isn't a centre half but that's not his fault that everyone wants to shoehorn him in there. The same faults as Friday in terms of the formation, it stunted any creativity we had going forward and once Clarke did his usual sitting back tactic once we got the lead, the centre of midfield was too light in numbers leading to an onslaught for the defence. Ultimately we are more comfortable playing 4-5-1/4-2-3-1/4-3-3 and I would like to see us revert back to that for the playoffs. A word for the Czechs who were a decent team and probably would be a good League C outfit if given time and preparation, better than a number of countries we've been beat by (Georgia and Kazakhstan to name two). Ultimately to play poorly over two games and get four points is a positive but we desperately need to see signs of progress soon under Clarke as it was difficult to take too much positives over the last two matches. However, top of the league and probably a point better off than I thought we would be so I'll take that as my positive viewpoint for tonight. Not sure everyone was picking the team Just Steve Clarke Shades of levein now Stubbornly continuing with obvious mistakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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