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Holyrood Elections 2021


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13 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Defections? No not that i am at all aware of or never considered,, you are putting words in my mouth. I am very single minded and dont go with the crowd rightly or wrongly,, there are some very unpleasant folk in the snp and yes that can be said of alba too,, that stewart macdonald is horrendous,, really horrible guy.. 

i have maybe been naive in thinking indy should come first and foremost,that certainly is not the case.. in what regards have i had the wool pulled over my eyes? I voted snp 1 and alba 2 that if adopted would have had maximum effect, donyou agree with that? 

A couple of weeks ago you told us you'd met Salmond and that he'd told you that everything was going to be good.  You constantly stated that you thought the polls were underestimating Alba.  Then on Friday you come out and say that it wasn't a surprise as internal polling was showing them at 3% or whatever.  I could repeat that for just about everything related to Alex Salmond that you've said over the last two years.

So either you're being fed falsehoods and believe them or you know its false but push it regardless.

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22 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

The SNP manifesto doesn't say that they won't have a referendum on rejoining the EU. For me the annoying bit is that they don't say that they will have one either. I can't see any way that Scotland could rejoin the EU without having a referendum at some point. I can't see any reason why they aren't specifically saying this though. Maybe they just haven't got to that level of detail yet? We can't join the EU before becoming independent and that bit seems a long way off at present.

 

That is too far down the line at the moment and it would be prudent if they held the line that they'd offer people the chance to decide on the EU should we become independent. That stance would keep all people with an open mind on independence.

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56 minutes ago, exile said:

There is talk of love bombing us. Or throwing us cash - look at Hartlepool, people like promises of jobs and money.

Let's expect money will be no object, suddenly HS2 will come to Scotland, there will be an HS4 from Cairnryan to Aberdeen, Global Britain Freeports on the Clyde, 40 new hospitals, a new National Stadium, etc. 

All funded direct from the Union Unit with a Union Flag on it.

Let them splash the cash and then we vote for independence. Cheers Boris :ok:

 

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18 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

The SNP manifesto doesn't say that they won't have a referendum on rejoining the EU. For me the annoying bit is that they don't say that they will have one either. I can't see any way that Scotland could rejoin the EU without having a referendum at some point. I can't see any reason why they aren't specifically saying this though. Maybe they just haven't got to that level of detail yet? We can't join the EU before becoming independent and that bit seems a long way off at present.

 

The manifesto may not explicitly say that but every time I hear an SNP MP talk about independence they do so on the basis that it means rejoining the EU. All this leave a light on stuff makes me cringe out my box as does the stop brexit stuff on the side of buses. The UK voted to leave the EU so what right did we have to stop that?

The fact that the UK voted to leave and we voted to remain was the material set of circumstances we needed to make the argument that another independence referendum was justified. It should not be the basis for automatic application to rejoin the EU first day we get our independence, the whole point of indy is that Scotland gets to choose. They are separate constitutional issues.

If we want to maximise the number of people who are going to vote yes next time then we need to be explicitly clear that they are separate issues and bring brexiteers on board because if we don't we've already lost.

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2 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

The manifesto may not explicitly say that but every time I hear an SNP MP talk about independence they do so on the basis that it means rejoining the EU. All this leave a light on stuff makes me cringe out my box as does the stop brexit stuff on the side of buses. The UK voted to leave the EU so what right did we have to stop that?

The fact that the UK voted to leave and we voted to remain was the material set of circumstances we needed to make the argument that another independence referendum was justified. It should not be the basis for automatic application to rejoin the EU first day we get our independence, the whole point of indy is that Scotland gets to choose. They are separate constitutional issues.

If we want to maximise the number of people who are going to vote yes next time then we need to be explicitly clear that they are separate issues and bring brexiteers on board because if we don't we've already lost.

Fully agree once again.

If we want to make a case for independence where Scots choose their future then they have to display that in matters such as EU membership. Yes I know how we voted in the UK Brexit vote but that was under totally different circumstances and conditions.

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Just now, Toepoke said:

Let them splash the cash and then we vote for independence. Cheers Boris :ok:

 

I was thinking that. Anyone remember in the 90s they threw money at the M74 and even brought back the Stone of Destiny in a big splash of patriotic publicity. And then they were turfed out all their seats in Scotland. 

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2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

We have to have ideas/policies in place that BetterTogether2 can't pick holes in like last time on stuff like currency and EU membership. If we go in with no real plan then we are done.

Yes, we've had seven years to think about it. The SNP are clearly in charge of the movement going forward, so what exactly have they learned? 

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3 minutes ago, aaid said:

A couple of weeks ago you told us you'd met Salmond and that he'd told you that everything was going to be good.  You constantly stated that you thought the polls were underestimating Alba.  Then on Friday you come out and say that it wasn't a surprise as internal polling was showing them at 3% or whatever.  I could repeat that for just about everything related to Alex Salmond that you've said over the last two years.

So either you're being fed falsehoods and believe them or you know its false but push it regardless.

a lot of the time i was winding you up as you dislike for salmond is so obvious, i did meet him however and he stated that they would struggle to win a seat, that is the truth.. he also state the the snp are at risk of going down the road that labour did.. he stated " the purpose of alba was to stop the snp taking independence supporters for granted" which they have...

i will express no shame in admitting my respect for salmond as a politician and a person ,, but most of all the part he has played in furthering scottish independence,, amany on here would do well to take this into concideration before throwing him under the bus..

 

yourself aaid have been horrible in your personal attacks on salmond,, you would say that given you employment... i have lived and breathed Scottish politics since 2013 and i am now in a place where i never thought i would end up,, as i said,, there are some real nasty people in the party,, you may see me standing for the alba party if the is no referendum come next elections..(half joking)

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People that back Alba I have absolutely no problem with. If they feel that is the party for them that is going to influence independence in a meaningful way then sobeit. However, this complete denial in accepting Salmond is a busted flush really is harming the party. Various polls on leaders showed us he is even less popular in Scotland than Boris Johnson ......wow.....I didn't think that was possible. On top of that because of what has gone before he is damaged goods and we've seen before with the likes of Michael Barrymore and John Leslie who were both cleared too that there is no way back. Still not convinced? The electorate spoke to him yesterday in his own backyard.

If Alba want to be a meaningful political party then seek out a leader that is not damaged goods.

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22 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

a lot of the time i was winding you up as you dislike for salmond is so obvious, i did meet him however and he stated that they would struggle to win a seat, that is the truth.. he also state the the snp are at risk of going down the road that labour did.. he stated " the purpose of alba was to stop the snp taking independence supporters for granted" which they have...

i will express no shame in admitting my respect for salmond as a politician and a person ,, but most of all the part he has played in furthering scottish independence,, amany on here would do well to take this into concideration before throwing him under the bus..

 

yourself aaid have been horrible in your personal attacks on salmond,, you would say that given you employment... i have lived and breathed Scottish politics since 2013 and i am now in a place where i never thought i would end up,, as i said,, there are some real nasty people in the party,, you may see me standing for the alba party if the is no referendum come next elections..(half joking)

I'm genuinely intrigued as to what you think my employment is as my background is as politically neutral as its possible to get.

As for Salmond.  I used to have a lot of respect for him.  I can never hand on heart say that I liked him, he has, IMHO, an arrogance that goes beyond gallusness and that is a trait in people I don't like.

When he was acquitted I thought - and still think - that was the right verdict as I don't think there was enough evidence to prove criminality.  However the behaviour that came out during the trial - and which was admitted to - was totally unacceptable for anyone in a position of power, let alone a serving FM at *that particular point in time* - what do you think the reaction would have been had it came out in 2014?

Had he shown any level of acceptance or contrition at that point then maybe you think he can move on but since that point up to and including this week he has waged a concerted campaign for retribution against those who he thinks have wronged him, specifically those women who made the accusations and are close to Nicola Sturgeon and to Nicola Sturgeon herself who he thinks should have intervened to make the allegations go away.  You know that is true.

In doing so he's failed at every step and has managed to trash not only his own reputation and legacy but also that of some that have publicly backed him, on Tuesday a man will most likely get a lengthy prison sentence because of this vendetta.

All that respect I have for him disappeared a long time ago, all I feel now is sadness.

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7 minutes ago, aaid said:

I'm genuinely intrigued as to what you think my employment is as my background is as politically neutral as its possible to get.

You're the SNP webmaster, and t-shirt designer. We've already established this aaid, during the great #TshirtGate scandal. :P

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Just now, Dave78 said:

You're the SNP webmaster, and t-shirt designer. We've already established this aaid, during the great #TshirtGate scandal. :P

😄

Well in the past I have built websites and sold T-shirts.  Hell I've even built a website to sell T-shirts.  Never for the SNP though😉

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1 minute ago, aaid said:

😄

Well in the past I have built websites and sold T-shirts.  Hell I've even built a website to sell T-shirts.  Never for the SNP though😉

That sounds exactly like something the person who built the SNP t-shirt website would say. :P

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58 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

People that back Alba I have absolutely no problem with. If they feel that is the party for them that is going to influence independence in a meaningful way then sobeit. However, this complete denial in accepting Salmond is a busted flush really is harming the party. Various polls on leaders showed us he is even less popular in Scotland than Boris Johnson ......wow.....I didn't think that was possible. On top of that because of what has gone before he is damaged goods and we've seen before with the likes of Michael Barrymore and John Leslie who were both cleared too that there is no way back. Still not convinced? The electorate spoke to him yesterday in his own backyard.

If Alba want to be a meaningful political party then seek out a leader that is not damaged goods.

salmond running the party from kick off got the party limelight and whether you like it or not it separated them from the other "diidy partys" as a serious consideration, had the alba party launched without him 6 weeks before the election, no one would have batted an eye lid..he will step back from the fore of the party i believe,, i personally think we need them, especially going forward with unionist tactical voting. i really liked their manifesto as well and the snp would do well to adopt some of it as they are mainly running on old tired salmond policies.. i wish the snp well whether i remain a member or not i am not sure..

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43 minutes ago, aaid said:

I'm genuinely intrigued as to what you think my employment is as my background is as politically neutral as its possible to get.

As for Salmond.  I used to have a lot of respect for him.  I can never hand on heart say that I liked him, he has, IMHO, an arrogance that goes beyond gallusness and that is a trait in people I don't like.

When he was acquitted I thought - and still think - that was the right verdict as I don't think there was enough evidence to prove criminality.  However the behaviour that came out during the trial - and which was admitted to - was totally unacceptable for anyone in a position of power, let alone a serving FM at *that particular point in time* - what do you think the reaction would have been had it came out in 2014?

Had he shown any level of acceptance or contrition at that point then maybe you think he can move on but since that point up to and including this week he has waged a concerted campaign for retribution against those who he thinks have wronged him, specifically those women who made the accusations and are close to Nicola Sturgeon and to Nicola Sturgeon herself who he thinks should have intervened to make the allegations go away.  You know that is true.

In doing so he's failed at every step and has managed to trash not only his own reputation and legacy but also that of some that have publicly backed him, on Tuesday a man will most likely get a lengthy prison sentence because of this vendetta.

All that respect I have for him disappeared a long time ago, all I feel now is sadness.

it certainly didn't come across as sadness thats for sure.. i am not getting into the salmond case again, the whole thing stank, right from the top,, there is room for a party such as alba,, the next few months will be interesting thats for sure..i dont thing they are going to"go away" as nicolson has tweeted

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2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Defections? No not that i am at all aware of or never considered,, you are putting words in my mouth.

Ok so what did you mean then?

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4 hours ago, Freeedom said:

This wouldn't surprise me. The myth that Scotland is too poor to look after itself is still absolutely rampant in this country, I was talking to my friends mother about politics and she was telling me how fantastic the furlough scheme was and how lucky we were that "they" gave "us" all this funding. No awareness that it is our tax money that is coming right back to us. This is a woman who voted yes in 2014 but would probably vote no in any new referendum.

We need to tackle this argument.

Its not even tax money its debt that has been created to be funded by future taxes . Any country with borrowing powers could do that and will take decades of tax money to pay it back. Borrowing powers  of course that Scotland does not have as part of this union. And wait till we have the tsunami default on bounce bank loans and business continuity loans .

There is no denying the furlough scheme has been much needed but surely to god no one can be naive enough  to think Boris Johnson woke up one morning having been visited by the 3 ghosts of Christmas . The furlough scheme was created simply because the best chance of an economic recovery is to keep as many companies afloat as possible and to keep money coming into households.  

 

Edited by TDYER63
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2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Its not even tax money its debt that has been created to be funded by future taxes . Any country with borrowing powers could do that and will take decades of tax money to pay it back. Borrowing powers  of course that Scotland does not have as part of this union. And wait till we have the tsunami default on bounce bank loans and business continuity loans .

There is no denying the furlough scheme has been much needed but surely to god no one can be naive enough  to think Boris Johnson woke up one morning having been visited by the 3 ghosts of Christmas . The furlough scheme was created simply because the best chance of an economic recovery is to keep as many companies afloat as possible and to keep money coming into households.  

 

I think you underestimate the ignorance of the general public. And, I don't mean ignorance in a bad way. It's just that so many ordinary folk just don't have enough interest in these things to make themselves fully aware of what is going on.

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2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I think you underestimate the ignorance of the general public. And, I don't mean ignorance in a bad way. It's just that so many ordinary folk just don't have enough interest in these things to make themselves fully aware of what is going on.

Yeah , I do get that, I would never expect the general public to have much knowledge on the actual economics , apart from anything else there is possibly no subject more tedious than economics.

But I would think people would know that a conservative government is not in the habit of splashing the cash and would perhaps question where the money has come from given the fact we keep getting told the country is skint and cant afford more money for essential services. 

Maybe not, maybe they are just grateful for the money and dont think of where its come from. 

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