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Holyrood Elections 2021


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12 hours ago, biffer said:

There’s your problem right there. Independence isn’t your priority, because the other green policies put you off. If it was truly about Indy, you wouldn’t care about their other policies. 

This hits the nail on the head. Alba voters refuse to vote Green because of their other policies but attack people who refuse to vote Alba because of their other policies and stance and don't see the hypocrisy. 

Edited by Lamia
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2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Can Wings post on what happened to Eck please? Can they let us know how the wholly one could only pull on just over 5,000 votes in his own backyard? I await how it is all SNP's fault that Eck could not appeal to voters in his own neighbourhood given that he is the messiah after all.

It is all the SNP and Media's fault and the stupid "Tartan Tories" who voted SNP and as long as they keep blaming everyone else then they will continue to be an irrelevance.

Their failure was in fact Alba and Salmond's fault and if they actually took a look at themselves and addressed the issues that would be the only way they could actually make progress but they won't, they will continue to blame others and abuse people and wonder why they remain an irrelevance. 

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18 minutes ago, Lamia said:

This hits the nail on the head. Alba voters refuse to vote Green because of their other policies but attack people who refuse to vote Alba because of their other policies and stance and don't see the hypocrisy. 

That's hardly surprising as they're largely the same people who have spent the last 7 years shouting loudly at No-voters because that's the way to get people to change their minds.

They do a nice line in casual homophobia as well.

 

184060847_447436199753756_11353114039418895_n.jpg

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2 minutes ago, aaid said:

That's hardly surprising as they're largely the same people who have spent the last 7 years shouting loudly at No-voters because that's the way to get people to change their minds.

They do a nice line in casual homophobia as well.

 

184060847_447436199753756_11353114039418895_n.jpg

Is that the Alba twitter account?

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23 minutes ago, Lamia said:

This hits the nail on the head. Alba voters refuse to vote Green because of their other policies but attack people who refuse to vote Alba because of their other policies and stance and don't see the hypocrisy. 

I think that’s a good point that Alba supporters on social media seem to miss. 

I’d personally never vote for the greens, at least in their current form but acknowledge that they are an Indy supporting party. 

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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Even with a supermajority it was possibly not going to be enough.

But with this... it is  nowhere nearly enough.

Why? because almost nothing has changed as a result of this election., what two extra SNP MSPs and one short of a majority... I am sure Boris will be shitting himself. 

Nothing has changed, so nothing will change. 

There’s an independence majority of 72-57. 

The idea that a bigger majority would influence tory party thinking is a real denial of reality.

The whole Alba thing is basically a group of dinosaurs who put other things above independence - that’s why they won’t vote for the greens. Either they’re anti trans, anti woke, just don’t like Patrick Harvie, or they’re just plain anti green. So they jumped onto AS’s ego trip to try and hide their own prejudice and to make sure they could continue to pretend they didn’t put anything else above Indy. 
 

If independence was your priority, why didn’t you vote for the Greens on the list?

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2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Is that the Alba twitter account?

No, it's BridgesForIndy which is the guy who organises the flag displays on bridges - I think but don't quote me on this - he was also behind the protests on the border last year.  He's a very vocal Alba supporter thigh.

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37 minutes ago, thplinth said:

ALBA said vote SNP1/ALBA2.

If people had we would have a whopping supermajority right now.

But even that might not have been enough for the reason that it was still based around the same vote, but it would have been a hell of a lot stronger and better than what we have now, i.e. exactly the same dead-end status quo that we have had for the last five years.

The SNP said vote SNP1/SNP2.

Of course, they knew it was stupid and futile but it was more important to them to kill off Alex Salmond, even if it killed off our chances of indyref2. They have succeed in doing both for the foreseeable future.

I guess if you were happy with the last five years you will be happy with the next five. I wonder if this thread will still be going then. What are we now into year 6 of it. It is amazing how the same trick keeps on working...

"If people had" is the crucial point.

SNP made it clear that independence wasn't their priority right now and people have voted for that. They could have voted for Alba if they wanted.

Alba got their message out well (in my opinion). Without intending, I saw the online advert and got the leaflet through the door. They were both excellent. But obviously the electorate have rejected the message and the man. 

As for the foreseeable future, I would encourage lengthening your foresight. Yes a supermajority would have made it easier to get a referendum. But you know, easy rarely works. And in this case it definitely wouldn't have worked - we'd have seen 53% NO, after another wasted 2 years. 

We have to face into the reality that a large number of people voted No simply because they don't believe we are capable of going it alone and/or they don't like the SNP (as utterly bizarre as that is). What more could prove that they are wrong than to come storming out of this pandemic stronger than before. 

Yes the matter of a referendum is reserved for Westminster. And they have good reasons for resisting. But nothing will do more for the independence movement than a constitutional stooshie with Westminster that goes all the way to the Supreme Court or UN. Parliamentary sovereignty vs the right to self determination - it's going to be blockbuster stuff!

The path is just longer and harder than you want it to be. I understand why that's frustrating. But that is the way it's going to be. 

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2 hours ago, thplinth said:

Had a look on wings...

But the bigger tragedy is that one of those two was Emma Roddick.

Roddick (pictured above left, with infamously loathsome narcissist horrorshow Fiona Robertson) is a truly epic idiot, and if we were to start telling you why we’d end up with a post longer than this one. She only got to the top of the SNP list rankings because she has a mental illness called Borderline Personality Disorder, and readers can decide for themselves if its symptoms sound like good traits for a politician to have:

 

The irony of saying someone is unsuitable for office because of questionable traits coming from someone supporting Alba and Salmond is astonishing. 😆

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So Michael Gove just said on live TV that the union is voluntary, of course we can democratically leave the union and the UK Government isn't going to go to court to stop an indyref. Seems like something has changed since Thursday after all.

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4 minutes ago, biffer said:

There’s an independence majority of 72-57. 

The idea that a bigger majority would influence tory party thinking is a real denial of reality.

The whole Alba thing is basically a group of dinosaurs who put other things above independence - that’s why they won’t vote for the greens. Either they’re anti trans, anti woke, just don’t like Patrick Harvie, or they’re just plain anti green. So they jumped onto AS’s ego trip to try and hide their own prejudice and to make sure they could continue to pretend they didn’t put anything else above Indy. 
 

If independence was your priority, why didn’t you vote for the Greens on the list?

Without going over the gender politics of the SNP and the greens, it’s a bit more complex than just being anti trans or anti Patrick Harvie, at least for some. 

But you’re correct, if it’s Indy before any party policy, then voting Green makes sense. 

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1 minute ago, exile said:

So Michael Gove just said on live TV that the union is voluntary, of course we can democratically leave the union and the UK Government isn't going to go to court to stop an indyref. Seems like something has changed since Thursday after all.

Oooft. They might have realised that if they end up in court with the Scottish Government then the game is up. It is the better approach, if you are a unionist, to permit the referendum and try to win again. 

Would be better for independence if they put up some resistance. 

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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

So ALBA were bang on the money folks.

They said that the 1.100,000 SNP regional votes would be effectively wasted and would only result in 1-2 additional SNP MSPs. That is exactly what has happened. Almost perfectly.

So what they also said was true.

Had just 50% of those 1.100.000 SNP regional votes voted ALBA it would have netted 20-25 additional Pro-independence ALBA MSPs. On top of the 62 constituency SNP MSPs. (Plus the Greens as well if you want to include them.) This would have been a supermajority of pro-independence MSPs.

Instead you don't have even an outright majority of pro-independence MSPs, and even with the Greens it is razor thin, which when you factor in turnout wont amount to fuck all when it comes to pushing Boris for independence.

You are facing five years of fuck all, that is your victory here. There is not even any point in arguing about it anymore, it is done now.

I dont think any Indy voter had / has issue with tactical voting for a 2nd indy supporting party (as many no doubt voted for the greens for this very reason).

The issue with the Alba party is that people dont want to vote for a party headed up by AS. Many see his sexual misconduct in office as making him unelectable. That its a huge stain on his character and credibility and that his presence in the Indy debate actually hinders the chances of success.

AS public perception is toxic. Women simply cant stand him and it seems the vast majority of men agree.

Many seem to take the criminal verdict as meaning that he hasnt done anything wrong when in fact he has just been found by a jury to not have reached the criminal standard of guilt.

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Having had a look at the List results, the nightmare scenario of Alba polling to few votes to secure a list seat but just enough to deny either the SNP or the Greens one.   Their vote share was so low that they had no impact on the list allocations.   

Had some of their votes in Glasgow and South Scotland gone to the Greens then potentially they might have gotten additional seats.  Lets be honest though, the majority of pro-Indy people who would vote Alba would never vote Green.  Anyone who weighed up between voting for Alba and the Greens to try and get an Indy seat and went for the former needs to take a long look at themselves though if they thought they had a better chance of winning.

What seems to really have screwed the Greens up is this Independent Green Voice nonsense and the Electoral Commission really need to answer serious questions about that.   It will be interesting to see whether the Greens raised an objection at the time.

People who decry the both votes SNP message don't really get it.

The SNP "lost" two list seats in South Scotland as a direct result of winning East Lothian and Ayr.  However, had those tight constituencies gone the other way and they hadn't won them, the SNP list vote held up and they would've won three list seats.

Ah, but that's just South Scotland and we know that the SNP need list seats there, I hear you say.

If you look at what happened in the constituencies, there was massive tactical voting by the Unionist parties - Willie Rennie and Alex Cole Hamilton polled around the same number of votes in their constituencies as they got in their entire regions.

There are plenty of seats that the SNP won - where they were the incumbent - where an even more concerted unionist tactical vote could've seen them lose it and that is the point where the list seats become important as insurance.

That may be a problem for the next election but hopefully this would be the last Holyrood election for a devolved parliament.

If people support the SNP and want to have as many SNP MSPs as possible then that is why BothVotesSNP is important.



 

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14 minutes ago, exile said:

So Michael Gove just said on live TV that the union is voluntary, of course we can democratically leave the union and the UK Government isn't going to go to court to stop an indyref. Seems like something has changed since Thursday after all.

Why it's almost as if people say different things either side of an election and there's a political reality than kicks in when the results become known.

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Listening to Michael Gove...the UK government (or Team UK as they have been re-branded) have got their shit together. They are taking this seriously and are already well-drilled.

They are certainly not making the same mistake as they did last time round, in leaving it to the last week before deploying the machine. 

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11 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Oooft. They might have realised that if they end up in court with the Scottish Government then the game is up. It is the better approach, if you are a unionist, to permit the referendum and try to win again. 

Would be better for independence if they put up some resistance. 

This is why the Scottish Government didn't support Martin Keatings' case.

For maximum political capital, if that is going to be decided in the courts - particularly if the judgement goes against the SG - it *has* to be the UKG that brings the case and so is seen to be acting undemocratically.

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Just watching The Sunday Show and three young first time voters. One of the voters did not vote Snp (think she said Labour) but supports independence. So on the BBC twice in the last 24 hours we have seen two people admitting to NOT voting for a pro-indy vote but supporting independence. That tells me that there are a lot of them around and more so than non-supporting independence SNP voters.

 

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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13 hours ago, biffer said:

There’s your problem right there. Independence isn’t your priority, because the other green policies put you off. If it was truly about Indy, you wouldn’t care about their other policies. 
 

Alba is starting to look like a home for right wing ethnic nationalists.

That's a bit of a stretch. I'd be surprised if a right-wing ethnic nationalist felt comfortable voting for a party that stood several candidates from ethnic minority backgrounds and includes an (ex?) Marxist amongst its more prominent members.

Edited by scotlad
Grammar
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Some Alba people’s response on here and on Twitter has been ridiculous, like a petty angry child shouting and screaming that he didn’t get picked.

The electorate didn’t like what was offered, it’s as simple as that, when this happens, you know what should happen, self reflection, not attacking those who have already rejected you. 

On the flip side of this, there’s been some serious pish from SNP members/supporters towards Salmond, and these people should GTF. 

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30 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Just watching The Sunday Show and three young first time voters. One of the voters did not vote Snp (think she said Labour) but supports independence. So on the BBC twice in the last 24 hours we have seen people admitting to NOT voting for a pro-indy vote but supporting independence.

Are you sure it wasn't the same person they showed twice? I've seen one guy get about fifty COVID jags, he must have super-immunity by now. :lol:

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1 hour ago, thplinth said:

ALBA said vote SNP1/ALBA2.

If people had we would have a whopping supermajority right now.

But even that might not have been enough for the reason that it was still based around the same vote, but it would have been a hell of a lot stronger and better than what we have now, i.e. exactly the same dead-end status quo that we have had for the last five years.

The SNP said vote SNP1/SNP2.

Of course, they knew it was stupid and futile but it was more important to them to kill off Alex Salmond, even if it killed off our chances of indyref2. They have succeed in doing both for the foreseeable future.

I guess if you were happy with the last five years you will be happy with the next five. I wonder if this thread will still be going then. What are we now into year 6 of it. It is amazing how the same trick keeps on working...

Well said. If independence is number one on your agenda then a vote for the SNP on the list was a waste.

Independence is about 5th on the priority list for the greens and they are the party who have maintained that status quo along with the SNP over the last five years, they wont hold the SNP to account like Alba would have. Alba was the obvious alternative for anyone who wanted to make independence the number one issue on the agenda again.

Nobody knew exactly how the election was going to play out but since we are basically back to where we were before, the onus is now very much on the SNP to deliver that referendum. Unfortunately I don't feel optimistic that they can deliver as they are likely to continue with their incoherent vision moving forward, the same vision that cost us the referendum in 2014.

What lessons have they learned since 2014? From what I have seen so far it is basically nothing.

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3 hours ago, thplinth said:

Had a look on wings...

Two seats! ohhhh man. 1.1 millions votes for two seats... well that's genius.  :lol:

But not just any old two seats... oh no. (I honestly don't think people realize just how funny the next five years are going to be.)

Dawn Of The Imbeciles

Posted on May 09, 2021 by Rev. Stuart Campbell
 

 

I'm positive you know how to post a link.   I stopped visiting that site over a year ago.   I suppose you are helping reduce his clicks though.

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