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Holyrood Elections 2021


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6 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

👍 totally agree. There is nothing wrong with setting an aspirational goal. Not that long ago I chucked everything into the one bin and every week bought a slab of small bottles of water. Now I drink only tap water and have 4 recycling bins. In fact I drive everyone mad , pulling out all the shit that is getting put in the wrong bin. I even have labels on them and my family still cant work our which one paper goes in 🙄

Are your recycling bins made of plastic by any chance? ;)

I'm all in favour of recycling but I want us to recycle everything, not just plastic. Cloths, furniture, TVs, computers the lot. Even human waste should be recycled -"Keep the poop in the loop". Have you ever tried to research where your "recycled" plastic ends up? We have some problems to overcome now that China has stopped allowing their country to be our dumping ground. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

 The main political reason he is doing this is to increase the pace at which we move towards independence.

What's the mechanism to do that?

There's more than a whiff of delusion in Salmonds abilities as well. However there isn't an avenue for rational discussion when certainty grips someone. After all how can you even entertain being wrong when you're certain.

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1 minute ago, phart said:

What's the mechanism to do that?

There's more than a whiff of delusion in Salmonds abilities as well. However there isn't an avenue for rational discussion when certainty grips someone. After all how can you even entertain being wrong when you're certain.

Putting pressure on the leadership of the SNP. He still has lots of allies in the SNP. He still thinks he can influence SNP policy but if he doesn't gets elected he will probably realise that the game is up and just head off to retirement on the golf course and maybe do some after dinner speaking and stuff like that to keep himself entertained. I still can't attempt to guess how many seats he will win. Could be anything between zero and 12.

 

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3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Putting pressure on the leadership of the SNP. He still has lots of allies in the SNP. He still thinks he can influence SNP policy but if he doesn't gets elected he will probably realise that the game is up and just head off to retirement on the golf course and maybe do some after dinner speaking and stuff like that to keep himself entertained. I still can't attempt to guess how many seats he will win. Could be anything between zero and 12.

 

Maybe I am too optimistic, but I can see Alba getting at least one seat e.g his. Surely they'll get over 5-6% in the NE region - and it's a massive region Dundee to Banff. 

I was hoping to find a Alba over 0.5 seats punt somewhere, but the bookies are offering slim pickings this year. Only thing on 365 is most seats ; most seats outwith the SNP and SNP majority or not odds. SNP are 1/100 for most seats and the SNP majority or not is basically evens each way. 

Like Loon said, after the initial shite in the press about him being a thorn in the SNP's side etc, it'll calm down and he/they'll be a rather good opposition, much rather a pro-indy opposition poking the SNP with a stick than a clown like Galloway or another Alexander Burnett or Cole-Hamilton sitting in Holyrood.

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15 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Are your recycling bins made of plastic by any chance? ;)

I'm all in favour of recycling but I want us to recycle everything, not just plastic. Cloths, furniture, TVs, computers the lot. Even human waste should be recycled -"Keep the poop in the loop". Have you ever tried to research where your "recycled" plastic ends up? We have some problems to overcome now that China has stopped allowing their country to be our dumping ground. 

 

They are ! However I can convince myself that the items I recycle far outweigh the plastic used for the bins as they are integrated into my kitchen units . Since I dont have a rich Tory donor willing to donate £58k for a refurb, and do have a husband that is frugal to the point he still wears vests that belonged to his dead uncle,  I fully expect my kitchen, and the recycling bins,  to outlive me 😁

I will have a look at where plastic ends up because admittedly I am a bit naive and hope that if I do my bit then the government is doing theirs. 

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8 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Putting pressure on the leadership of the SNP. He still has lots of allies in the SNP. He still thinks he can influence SNP policy but if he doesn't gets elected he will probably realise that the game is up and just head off to retirement on the golf course and maybe do some after dinner speaking and stuff like that to keep himself entertained. I still can't attempt to guess how many seats he will win. Could be anything between zero and 12.

 

I'd like a quicker route to another referendum, I just don't know enough to work out how to do it. Salmond knows essentially infinitely more than me but we'll have to see if there is a path for him to do it.

I hope ALBA some seats I have the same reservations I had when the SNP got a lot of seats in Westminster and you had muppets as representatives due to a large influx. A diverse environment provides the best environment for good ideas.

With Wightman away i'm actually struggling to find someone I can easily vote for.

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6 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

PS Does anyone know the exact time of counting?

I believe its on the Friday and Saturday, but is it a case of 9-5 on Friday and then back in on the Saturday, or will they count til say 10pm on Friday and then Saturday again?

I saw this

Image

There is some info here: https://www.emb.scot/news/article/20/planning-for-the-count-key-information-for-media-covering-the-scottish-parliament-election

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43 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

. If he hadn't stood down in 2014 we would have had another referendum already. Of that I have absolutely no doubt. 

To me to this is totally delusional. 

How?

When? 

Could he have done this?

Under what circumstances? under what conditions?

All SNPmanifestos in 2015/6 ,17 and 19 had a material change of circumstances before a referendum would be Held , people voted for that.

brexit gave us that, however Brexit didn't happen till JAN 2020, before that there was no mandate.

and then covid hit.

without Brexit there would have been no desire or push for indy2. 

Imo Indy 2 would have been generational  @2030/33 without Brexit.

we have another bite at the cherry here because of Brexit because of a material change in circumstances that people voted for .

now if we had no covid the chat was a referendum last year, the first time we were free to do what the SNP manifestos stated.

i think Nicolas performance and the general politics of covid have helped the indy cause and we are stronger now that we would have been with no covid. Last year would have been another defeat ,closer but a defeat none the less.

a referendum next year should have a majority. As I believe indy has gone from mainstream thinking- 'its a stupid idea' to it being  the default position of most people in Scotland.

Scotland was not ready in 2014, or even 2020, I believe we are almost ready now and will be next year

 We just need Tae keep the heid.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

any indy supporter in fife or the northeast are of their heads not to go snp/alba,, a snp/snp vote is prety much a tory vote... come awa guys get yer alba vote out there

Just out of interest how is your (or anyone's?) feeling for how support is on the ground?

Normally we hear feedback from doorstep opinion but we are not getting that this time. It makes us more (over)reliant on opinion polls (and social media opinions) than normal. 

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9 minutes ago, exile said:

Just out of interest how is your (or anyone's?) feeling for how support is on the ground?

Normally we hear feedback from doorstep opinion but we are not getting that this time. It makes us more (over)reliant on opinion polls (and social media opinions) than normal. 

i really am struggling here, i usually have my prediction of an election set in my mind a few weeks prior to the poll, however this time we have, brexit,covid, a shit tory leader, a shit labour with a new betterish leader, the salmond/sturgeon thing, albas emergence,,, there are so much things at play making the general public having so much issues to contamplate.

 

my projection is the snp are even stevens, tories get thumped more than any poll suggests, greens gain 2, lib dems lol god knows do they exist?labour will gain list seats, Alba will have a good night considering.. the main thing in this election for me is all the right wing list parties that can take a lot of zoomer voters from the tories.

 

on the door steps av had folk not voting snp but will alba, some wont vote alba but snp but most will go snp/alba

 

Edited by hampden_loon2878
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9 minutes ago, exile said:

How is the split looking with regards to giving us an idea of how things may be going by end of day on the Friday ? ie are many of the seats in the Saturday count likely to cause an upset ? I am not familiar enough with the current majorities in each area . 

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11 minutes ago, exile said:

Just out of interest how is your (or anyone's?) feeling for how support is on the ground?

Normally we hear feedback from doorstep opinion but we are not getting that this time. It makes us more (over)reliant on opinion polls (and social media opinions) than normal. 

The canvassing in Renfrewshire North and West has been pretty SNP positive. But it has been curtailed hugely due to covid so not sure how accurate the sampling will be. 

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12 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

None the less - it would be very soft to absolve the Scottish Government of responsibility for the health outcomes of people in Scotland. Would it not?

I'm not sure what your point is. All western European countries suffered from COVID, which was an unprecedented pandemic, and in one sense you could say all governments should be absolved, or all blamed. If all are to be blamed, then  fair enough, but it doesn't seem a great argument in favour of the parties of government of England or Wales. 

If we are not allowed to draw conclusions from other governments, but focus just on Scotland, then we could look at the record of what Scottish opposition parties did in the last year. As far as i can see they did not contribute much positively but rather the reverse, such as in undermining Scots Government messaging, and even trying to suppress it. A particular low was Baillie and Foulkes trying to get the First Minister public health messaging broadcasts taken off air. Then there were the Tories agitating for earlier lockdown release and Eat Out schemes that helped spread the virus, plus arguing for more international travel and arguing against border controls, which could have prevented the second wave at the end of the summer.

So if taking a principled stance against the SNP for their COVID record, I'd also take a principled stance against Labour and Tories, and vote for someone completely unconnected with the above problems.

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10 minutes ago, exile said:

I'm not sure what your point is. All western European countries suffered from COVID, which was an unprecedented pandemic, and in one sense you could say all governments should be absolved, or all blamed. If all are to be blamed, then  fair enough, but it doesn't seem a great argument in favour of the parties of government of England or Wales. 

If we are not allowed to draw conclusions from other governments, but focus just on Scotland, then we could look at the record of what Scottish opposition parties did in the last year. As far as i can see they did not contribute much positively but rather the reverse, such as in undermining Scots Government messaging, and even trying to suppress it. A particular low was Baillie and Foulkes trying to get the First Minister public health messaging broadcasts taken off air. Then there were the Tories agitating for earlier lockdown release and Eat Out schemes that helped spread the virus, plus arguing for more international travel and arguing against border controls, which could have prevented the second wave at the end of the summer.

So if taking a principled stance against the SNP for their COVID record, I'd also take a principled stance against Labour and Tories, and vote for someone completely unconnected with the above problems.

I wasn't making a point, I was responding to one - which I think was trying to absolve the Scottish Government for all responsibility, which In my view would be very soft.

And I'm not taking a principled stance against the SNP for their covid record. 

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3 hours ago, exile said:

I'm not sure what your point is. All western European countries suffered from COVID, which was an unprecedented pandemic, and in one sense you could say all governments should be absolved, or all blamed. If all are to be blamed, then  fair enough, but it doesn't seem a great argument in favour of the parties of government of England or Wales. 

If we are not allowed to draw conclusions from other governments, but focus just on Scotland, then we could look at the record of what Scottish opposition parties did in the last year. As far as i can see they did not contribute much positively but rather the reverse, such as in undermining Scots Government messaging, and even trying to suppress it. A particular low was Baillie and Foulkes trying to get the First Minister public health messaging broadcasts taken off air. Then there were the Tories agitating for earlier lockdown release and Eat Out schemes that helped spread the virus, plus arguing for more international travel and arguing against border controls, which could have prevented the second wave at the end of the summer.

So if taking a principled stance against the SNP for their COVID record, I'd also take a principled stance against Labour and Tories, and vote for someone completely unconnected with the above problems.

Have a tick. Well argued. Saves me cos I can’t be arsed.

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3 hours ago, exile said:

I'm not sure what your point is. All western European countries suffered from COVID, which was an unprecedented pandemic, and in one sense you could say all governments should be absolved, or all blamed. If all are to be blamed, then  fair enough, but it doesn't seem a great argument in favour of the parties of government of England or Wales. 

If we are not allowed to draw conclusions from other governments, but focus just on Scotland, then we could look at the record of what Scottish opposition parties did in the last year. As far as i can see they did not contribute much positively but rather the reverse, such as in undermining Scots Government messaging, and even trying to suppress it. A particular low was Baillie and Foulkes trying to get the First Minister public health messaging broadcasts taken off air. Then there were the Tories agitating for earlier lockdown release and Eat Out schemes that helped spread the virus, plus arguing for more international travel and arguing against border controls, which could have prevented the second wave at the end of the summer.

So if taking a principled stance against the SNP for their COVID record, I'd also take a principled stance against Labour and Tories, and vote for someone completely unconnected with the above problems.

This. 👍

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20 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

i really am struggling here, i usually have my prediction of an election set in my mind a few weeks prior to the poll, however this time we have, brexit,covid, a shit tory leader, a shit labour with a new betterish leader, the salmond/sturgeon thing, albas emergence,,, there are so much things at play making the general public having so much issues to contamplate.

 

my projection is the snp are even stevens, tories get thumped more than any poll suggests, greens gain 2, lib dems lol god knows do they exist?labour will gain list seats, Alba will have a good night considering.. the main thing in this election for me is all the right wing list parties that can take a lot of zoomer voters from the tories.

 

on the door steps av had folk not voting snp but will alba, some wont vote alba but snp but most will go snp/alba

 

Thanks. It definitely looks difficult to compare with previous elections especially with Alba, and also maybe COVID and turnout being difficult to call. I suspect the opinion polls must be more dodgy than usual as a result.

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