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Holyrood Elections 2021


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8 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Both, but he is weil down the list so won't get elected that way. He will need to win his constituency. It's not Jim Fairlie from the TAMB though, it's his son.

Is it his son - I thought he might be a nephew 

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20 hours ago, aaid said:

You are a parody account - right.

No, not at all.  I have been an SNP member for many years, having first joined in 1968 just after Winnie Ewing won Hamilton.  I disagreed with the FM's stop brexit campaign because she was trying to hold back the tide of English opinion, and my view was that her line should have been that Scotland is not going to be dragged out of Europe - Blackford's favourite vacuous soundbite - and the conclusion from that should have been that we wanted another indy vote.  Her insistence on S30 is painting her into a corner.  She is suggesting the British state will play fair, and we know they won't..  I think NS came across very poorly during the enquiries and the impression of a cover up did her no good at all.  Her husband Peter Murrell comes across as either a complete idiot or a devious wee slug and I'd love to hear some of the conversations they must have had at home recently.  I want NS to prove me wrong, but if she insists on pushing through unpopular legislation, she is going to lose support.  It's almost as if she doesn't want a working majority but would prefer to be in a position where she doesn't have to push for indy and has the perfect excuse.  I'd love to be proved wrong.

I think the Alba party will pick up some seats, and as an indy supporter I have no problem with that - but the infighting between Alba and the SNP is not helping either of them, and I have reservations about the back of a fag packet way they have launched - would be better if they had done it a few months ago as very little time and the lack of proper candidate vetting seems to be opening them up to attack.  Be good to see Salmond back if he gets in, but the indy movement needs to stop infighting and I don't see that Sturgeons's detestation of Salmond will be easy to get round.  She sounds as if she would rather not get indy if the crucial vote to get it through had to come from Salmond.  The two parties need to co-operate against the real enemy and if Sturgeon can't be stateswomanlike enough to do that, she will become a liability.  I'd love to know why she actually hates him so much.

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13 hours ago, Lamia said:

How come they cannot design the papers so they easily fit into the envelope for postal votes!

I know some folk don't like to read the instructions but this one isnae rocket science.

" 2. Fold & place your ballot papers into envelope A"

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5 hours ago, Orraloon said:

I know some folk don't like to read the instructions but this one isnae rocket science.

" 2. Fold & place your ballot papers into envelope A"

And I did that! Since they are already folded they could however make them fit without further folding

Edited by Lamia
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4 minutes ago, Lamia said:

And I did that! Since they are already folded they could however make them fit without further folding

At least you managed to work out how to do it. ;)

Maybe it's a krypton factor style test to see if you are worthy of a vote?

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2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

At least you managed to work out how to do it. ;)

Maybe it's a krypton factor style test to see if you are worthy of a vote?

It’s not about it being complicated it’s about making a simple design change to improve it. 

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I was out leafleting today for the alba party, i got a good response in general, not understanding the voting system will be the partys biggest obstacle, i had a guy saying he cant vote for them due to the EU although he was a snp voter his entire life prior brexit, i explained alba is a different party, another snp voter said he wouldn’t  take votes away from the snp and had to explain they were only standing for list votes that returned zero snp msps here last elections 

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4 minutes ago, Redz said:

Has there been any literature released of how to vote by area that will produce the largest / majority of  Indy Indy parties?

I don't think that is possible. 

The only thing that is fairly certain is that you should vote for SNP in any constituency (lilac ballot paper) wherever you are. The Greens are standing in some constituencies but are very unlikely to win any. 

On the Regional list (peach ballot paper) you have a choice of three, ALBA, SNP or Green but nobody can predict with much degree of certainty who you should vote for, because nobody knows who everybody else is planning to vote for. In order to know for sure you would need to be able to predict the outcome before it happens.

Here's wee hypothetical example which gives you an idea how difficult it is to guess.

https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2021/04/how-alba-party-are-running-self.html

 

 

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2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

I don't think that is possible. 

The only thing that is fairly certain is that you should vote for SNP in any constituency (lilac ballot paper) wherever you are. The Greens are standing in some constituencies but are very unlikely to win any. 

On the Regional list (peach ballot paper) you have a choice of three, ALBA, SNP or Green but nobody can predict with much degree of certainty who you should vote for, because nobody knows who everybody else is planning to vote for. In order to know for sure you would need to be able to predict the outcome before it happens.

Here's wee hypothetical example which gives you an idea how difficult it is to guess.

https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2021/04/how-alba-party-are-running-self.html

 

 

👍 Appreciated 

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3 hours ago, Orraloon said:

I don't think that is possible. 

The only thing that is fairly certain is that you should vote for SNP in any constituency (lilac ballot paper) wherever you are. The Greens are standing in some constituencies but are very unlikely to win any. 

On the Regional list (peach ballot paper) you have a choice of three, ALBA, SNP or Green but nobody can predict with much degree of certainty who you should vote for, because nobody knows who everybody else is planning to vote for. In order to know for sure you would need to be able to predict the outcome before it happens.

Here's wee hypothetical example which gives you an idea how difficult it is to guess.

https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2021/04/how-alba-party-are-running-self.html

 

 

I saw a very brief part of Lorna Slater being interviewed yesterday , granted it was very short but it didnt seem to me that independence was a priority for the Greens so that rules out them getting my list vote. I had been considering them along with Alba but if it goes to anyone other than SNP it will be Alba. 

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25 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I saw a very brief part of Lorna Slater being interviewed yesterday , granted it was very short but it didnt seem to me that independence was a priority for the Greens so that rules out them getting my list vote. I had been considering them along with Alba but if it goes to anyone other than SNP it will be Alba. 

That particular criticism of the Greens is levelled out for me by their commitment to abolishing the monarchy. 
 

They need to have a different message from the SNP and the planet / green message is obviously front and centre for them understandably, but they are accepted as pro-Indy so worthy of a vote IMO. 

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32 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I saw a very brief part of Lorna Slater being interviewed yesterday , granted it was very short but it didnt seem to me that independence was a priority for the Greens so that rules out them getting my list vote. I had been considering them along with Alba but if it goes to anyone other than SNP it will be Alba. 

I assume that was the interview with Martin Geissler on the Sunday Show, did you see it live or have you just seen clips?

The reason why I ask that as although I think she dealt with the questions pretty well, I remember thinking this is an interview that could be cut up to give a misleading impression.

He posed a straw man question, which he was totally entitled to do, saying, if I was an environmentalist but was a unionist as well and didn't want independence then why should I vote for the Greens.

She went through the reasons why you should vote for the Greens on the basis of their environmental policies and then reiterated that they believe in the right to choose, ie. there should be a referendum, basically saying if you're this fictional Green Unionist, vote for us in the election and vote No in a referendum.

While it's true that Scottish Independence isn't what gets the Greens out of bed in the morning, support for independence is actually consistent with their wider aims which is all about localism.  There's also a strategic appeal for them as they'd have more influence in an independent Scotland than they do in the UK - which is basically nothing.

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19 minutes ago, aaid said:

I assume that was the interview with Martin Geissler on the Sunday Show, did you see it live or have you just seen clips?

The reason why I ask that as although I think she dealt with the questions pretty well, I remember thinking this is an interview that could be cut up to give a misleading impression.

He posed a straw man question, which he was totally entitled to do, saying, if I was an environmentalist but was a unionist as well and didn't want independence then why should I vote for the Greens.

She went through the reasons why you should vote for the Greens on the basis of their environmental policies and then reiterated that they believe in the right to choose, ie. there should be a referendum, basically saying if you're this fictional Green Unionist, vote for us in the election and vote No in a referendum.

While it's true that Scottish Independence isn't what gets the Greens out of bed in the morning, support for independence is actually consistent with their wider aims which is all about localism.  There's also a strategic appeal for them as they'd have more influence in an independent Scotland than they do in the UK - which is basically nothing.

I think that interview is one that I heard and that is what I took from it. 

In a way it's not much different from what the SNP have routinely said to Unionists in past elections: if you like our devolved policies, free prescriptions and tuition fees, nationalised railways, laptops, generally good government and leadership, etc etc, then vote for us even if you later vote No in a referendum.

Another thing I took from it was they are saying "we see independence as a pathway to the fairer, greener society we want to build".  So independence is part of a wider vision, not simply an end in itself.

While independence maybe not their sole priority, on the indy front they're in some ways bolder than the SNP e.g. on the monarchy, which they seem to be against but I didn't see it in their manifesto. (Not sure what Alba stance on that is?).

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37 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

That particular criticism of the Greens is levelled out for me by their commitment to abolishing the monarchy. 
 

They need to have a different message from the SNP and the planet / green message is obviously front and centre for them understandably, but they are accepted as pro-Indy so worthy of a vote IMO. 

I totally understand that the environment is their priority, and I actually respect them for  putting their principles first. But my immediate priority is independence and I feel Alba are more committed to my priority than the Greens. 
 

28 minutes ago, aaid said:

I assume that was the interview with Martin Geissler on the Sunday Show, did you see it live or have you just seen clips?

The reason why I ask that as although I think she dealt with the questions pretty well, I remember thinking this is an interview that could be cut up to give a misleading impression.

He posed a straw man question, which he was totally entitled to do, saying, if I was an environmentalist but was a unionist as well and didn't want independence then why should I vote for the Greens.

She went through the reasons why you should vote for the Greens on the basis of their environmental policies and then reiterated that they believe in the right to choose, ie. there should be a referendum, basically saying if you're this fictional Green Unionist, vote for us in the election and vote No in a referendum.

While it's true that Scottish Independence isn't what gets the Greens out of bed in the morning, support for independence is actually consistent with their wider aims which is all about localism.  There's also a strategic appeal for them as they'd have more influence in an independent Scotland than they do in the UK - which is basically nothing.

Yes it was that interview, and tbf I did only catch a small part of it.
Martin Geissler said that their manifesto was ‘such and such pages long’ ( can’t remember exactly how many) yet independence wasn’t mentioned until a good bit into it and kind of inferred they werent that committed. Lorna Slater then said independence was just part of the puzzle ( or jigsaw) and that although they felt independence would help achieve their goals on the environment they didnt need independence to push ahead with it. 
I didnt hear Martin Guisslers question about being an environmentalist and unionist, that would perhaps explain her flippant reference to independence. 

I should probably listen to the full interview  to make an informed decision. But as it stands , although I am fairly committed to improving the environment , and there are aspects of Alba I am not too keen on, there is no doubt in my mind that in the short term their priorities are more in line with my own . 

 

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58 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:


I didnt hear Martin Guisslers question about being an environmentalist and unionist, that would perhaps explain her flippant reference to independence. 

I should probably listen to the full interview  to make an informed decision. But as it stands , although I am fairly committed to improving the environment , and there are aspects of Alba I am not too keen on, there is no doubt in my mind that in the short term their priorities are more in line with my own . 

 

That was in the pre-amble to his question.  I didn't take her comment about not needing to be independent to do *all* the things they want to be able to do as being non-committal, rather than them, understandably, trying to show how they are "greener" than the SNP.

 

 

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17 hours ago, Orraloon said:

I don't think that is possible. 

The only thing that is fairly certain is that you should vote for SNP in any constituency (lilac ballot paper) wherever you are. The Greens are standing in some constituencies but are very unlikely to win any. 

On the Regional list (peach ballot paper) you have a choice of three, ALBA, SNP or Green but nobody can predict with much degree of certainty who you should vote for, because nobody knows who everybody else is planning to vote for. In order to know for sure you would need to be able to predict the outcome before it happens.

Here's wee hypothetical example which gives you an idea how difficult it is to guess.

https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2021/04/how-alba-party-are-running-self.html

 

 

That advice should not apply to the South of Scotland area.  The SNP have three list MSPs here.  SNP 1/2 is the only sensible choice in this area.  Elsewhere, I think your advice makes sense.

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5 minutes ago, Alibi said:

That advice should not apply to the South of Scotland area.  The SNP have three list MSPs here.  SNP 1/2 is the only sensible choice in this area.  Elsewhere, I think your advice makes sense.

I don't I gave any advice in that post?

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15 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I don't I gave any advice in that post?

I'm maybe reading a quote within a post or something.  Anyway, SNP 1/2 makes sense in the south of Scotland where there's a fairly strong Tory presence.  Elsewhere, maybe not so much.

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