Holyrood Elections 2021

[Orraloon]

2 minutes ago, Lamia said:

Can I ask if it matters who the candidates are and what they say or will you vote for them regardless?

On the constituency vote it doesn't matter to me who the candidate is. In most constituencies SNP are the only independence candidate. It might make a difference if it was a candidate who I detested so much that I couldn't vote for them. But I don't take politics seriously enough to hold any politician to that level of hate.

Because I have a choice of independence candidates on the Regional List, the candidates had some bearing on my decision. Probably more to do with how the SNP candidates were selected, rather than the candidates themselves, pushed me towards ALBA.

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

It's just part of our good cop, bad cop routine. Can you tell which is which?

The decision is easy.

Constituency - SNP

Regional - ALBA.

Once you have made the decision you will feel much better. You can always change your mind again later.  But, don't let any of that twitter crap influence your decision, that's all totally irrelevant.

 

😂 that might explain the state the polis are in .

Seriously though, for example, I am open to giving my second vote to another party, but I honestly do not know anyone I could convince to vote Alba, and these are not woke folk. I know my wee group of friends and family is hardly representative of the entire scottish public but my concern is that there is not enough of a buy in and that it has an adverse affect on the number of seats . 
Also, no one answered my question ( least I dont think they did) about what is likely to hold more weight legally for a referendum , a small SNP majority or a SNP minority but with a larger number of seats for pro independence parties than we currently have ? 

[thplinth]

Westminster is looking pretty good right now versus Holyrood. I can't remember the last time a sitting Prime Minister at Westminster attempted to stitch up and imprison their predecessor to stop them re-entering politics and threaten their position.

If any of this had been attempted there I doubt they would have got away with it.

Indeed it was only in Westminster that David Davis was able to blew the whistle on it. In Scotland everyone else had been silenced by the SNP's bully boy Lord Advocate and COPFS.

When the SNP tried to silence Davis at Westminster they were politely told to do one. 

So Westminster might have a lot of faults but compared to the over flowing sewer that is the SNPG these days it is starting to look relatively good.

Edited April 12, 2021 by thplinth

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

It's just part of our good cop, bad cop routine. Can you tell which is which?

The decision is easy.

Constituency - SNP

Regional - ALBA.

Once you have made the decision you will feel much better. You can always change your mind again later.  But, don't let any of that twitter crap influence your decision, that's all totally irrelevant.

 

Twitter is toxic

[Orraloon]

4 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

😂 that might explain the state the polis are in .

Seriously though, for example, I am open to giving my second vote to another party, but I honestly do not know anyone I could convince to vote Alba, and these are not woke folk. I know my wee group of friends and family is hardly representative of the entire scottish public but my concern is that there is not enough of a buy in and that it has an adverse affect on the number of seats . 
Also, no one answered my question ( least I dont think they did) about what is likely to hold more weight legally for a referendum , a small SNP majority or a SNP minority but with a larger number of seats for pro independence parties than we currently have ? 

I don't think there is an answer to that question. It would need to be tested in court. In the Martin Keatings case the courts said that they wouldn't rule on a hypothetical. 

[exile]

2 hours ago, Lamia said:

But also vote for them! 😳 They are making no sense - they demand you vote SNP for the consistency whilst listing a bunch of reasons you shouldn't and then claim it is all the other indy supporters who are working against indy!

This is indeed very strange. Alba seems to have a lot of supporters who are genuinely ordinary independence supporters who are indistinguishable from SNP supporters - and as others have said the exact same people. While some of us may disagree on tactics or the value of 'gaming the list' or 'supermajorities', the party seemed otherwise normal.

But they seem to also have a minority who are fixated on genitalia and/or the idea that Scotland's traditional party of independence doesn't want independence (two things I wouldn't have imagined seeing in a crystal ball 5 years ago!).

So ironically, the Alba party supposedly set up to 'max the Yes' and put independence central to the campaign, as opposed to a 'woke' SNP leadership that is disproportionatey fixated with trans rights and so on, ends up being the ugly mirror image of the very thing they were attacking, namely, Alba seems to be becoming a party that is seemingly putting disproprotionate attention on a relatively small side issue that is not intrinsically annything to do with independence.

Which is their right, and they (like the SNP) can stand or fall by their choice of priorities.

But as you say, it means that while some are trying to say let's support each other, vote SNP 1 Alba 2, others are going around with vicious attacks on SNP leadership and on some particular individuals, that looks very much like online bullying, attacks probably worse than most Unionist attacks, which could be fine in a healthy democracy... but then also expect SNP supporters to lend them their vote. Seems counter-productive to me.

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, Lamia said:

I quite fancy a nice bowl of cereal!

 

During the indyref campaign for the 2014 vote I felt a sense of hope and optimism for a better future now our politics is starting to stink just about as much as UK politics and I am beginning to wonder if we can achieve that hopeful future building a new country. If it is being built by some of those at the heart of the SNP and Alba I very much doubt it! There are some incredibly toxic and unpleasant individuals trying to shape our future.

I am fairly lucky in a way that I never got caught up in all this in 2014  , my push for indy is mainly built on the simple fact we should  be running our own country no matter what, rather than the emotional aspect, though I was totally devastated at the result.

 I think we could still build a better future, after indy the SNP would not have the power they hold, there would be no safe seats and an STV system would work far better than it currently does IMO. It would be pretty ironic if a system that was brought in by unionists to ensure there was not a pro independence majority,  actually ended up being a successful and fair format in an independent Scotland.  

[exile]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Well it didn't take long did it.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/former-snp-councillor-quits-alba-party-amid-hideous-claims-against-lgbt-groups-3197564
 

This looks like a failure of leadership at the first hurdle. Where is Alex Salmond in all this?

Many people criticised Nicola Sturgeon for not reigning in the 'trans faction' in her party, or not speaking up for Joanna Cherry. Fair enough, though I don't know the internal politics of the party.

But in this case, people in the party are making actual (apparently false) claims or smears about other parties and organisations, and the party leader is nowhere to be seen.

And just for fun, the Scotsman uses it as a chance to smear both parties, as it keeps saying it is a former SNP councillor. Well done lads.

[phart]

28 minutes ago, exile said:

This looks like a failure of leadership at the first hurdle. Where is Alex Salmond in all this?

Many people criticised Nicola Sturgeon for not reigning in the 'trans faction' in her party, or not speaking up for Joanna Cherry. Fair enough, though I don't know the internal politics of the party.

But in this case, people in the party are making actual (apparently false) claims or smears about other parties and organisations, and the party leader is nowhere to be seen.

And just for fun, the Scotsman uses it as a chance to smear both parties, as it keeps saying it is a former SNP councillor. Well done lads.

Obvioulsy everywhere has it's own Noosphere but quotes like "there are people who are just itching to find /something/ to associate gay people with paedophilia" are being bandied about online communities like Reddit and others. Gay people talking about how concerned they are.

It's realy regressive thinking and all orchestrated as well considering the timings of multiple people parrotting the same lines. Then disseminated by radicals.

 

[aaid]

1 minute ago, TDYER63 said:

Also, no one answered my question ( least I dont think they did) about what is likely to hold more weight legally for a referendum , a small SNP majority or a SNP minority but with a larger number of seats for pro independence parties than we currently have ? 

There's no legal implications to the size or composition of a majority as regards a referendum.  

If the same approach is taken as in 2014, then that referendum would be legal.   The Scottish Parliament has the power to hold referendums - in principle - on any subject.   Aspects of the constitution - including independence are reserved - so while it's agreed that Westminster would have to legislate to enable independence its an unanswered legal question as to whether the SP can hold a referendum on that reserved matter.

If it comes to that, then it will be a decision for the courts to decide and that will be decided on constitutional law and not how many MSPs there are in parliament for each party.

The concept of a super-majority was introduced following the changes made as part of the Smith Commission post 2014. 

Certain legislation requires a super-majority which requires that a minimum of 86 (two thirds) MSPs must vote for it.

That's limited to aspects surrounding who gets elected to Holyrood, so things like the franchise, how many MSPs there are, the electoral system and the like.    The recent legislation which extends the franchise to all people over the age of 16 who are legally resident in Scotland regardless of their nationality was the first such piece of legislation passed.

The proponents of the super majority are conspicuously vague about what they think constitutes a super majority and what they would intend to do with it.   The best I can gather is that they would see it as an opportunity to call another election early, should there be a failure to secure a referendum and to have that election squarely as a plebiscite on independence with the intention of going down the UDI route should that be successful.  That is my best guess at what could be behind the strategy.  Personally I think its pie in the sky stuff.  My view is that what Alba want to be is the tail that wags the SNP dog and you can make your own mind up as to whether or not you think that is a good thing or not.   

The question of what size and sort of majority is most likely to secure a referendum is a political not a legal one.

It's pretty straightforwards really.   To a greater or lesser extent the electorate is split 50/50.

In those circumstances, if there's a majority of seats for the SNP and any other Indy parties and also a majority - however slim - if the popular vote then it becomes politically very difficult for the UKG to continue to block a referendum as there is a clear and obvious desire for one.  That becomes more difficult as the popular vote increases rather than the number of seats.   If the majority has been manipulated by "gaming the system" then that could be used to discredit the result.  

In this case having say, 60% of the seats off of 55% of the vote is a much more stronger position than having 66% of the seats off of 52% of the vote.

[aaid]

36 minutes ago, exile said:

 

And just for fun, the Scotsman uses it as a chance to smear both parties, as it keeps saying it is a former SNP councillor. Well done lads.

Well it is true that he is a former SNP councillor.  However, he's a former councillor who was in the SNP rather than a current councillor who was formerly in the SNP.

He left the SNP last year to join AFI and must have joined Alba when they basically cut the legs from under them.

[aaid]

6 minutes ago, phart said:

Obvioulsy everywhere has it's own Noosphere but quotes like "there are people who are just itching to find /something/ to associate gay people with paedophilia" are being bandied about online communities like Reddit and others. Gay people talking about how concerned they are.

It's realy regressive thinking and all orchestrated as well considering the timings of multiple people parrotting the same lines. Then disseminated by radicals.

 

There's a very definite whiff of Section 28 about a lot of the comments I've seen.

When the list of donors to Alba are published by the Electoral Commission, I wouldn't be surprised to see a certain bus owner from Perth included.

[aaid]

I remember when he used to promote The Ferret on his blog.

https://theferret.scot/claim-snp-funding-paedophile-charter-groups-ffs/?fbclid=IwAR3zLmfaGrlgkknP8z1d54Ght-znOn-LJbFByGAZcDAlJ9bD8xe7qCiRcyY

[Lamia]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Westminster is looking pretty good right now versus Holyrood. I can't remember the last time a sitting Prime Minister at Westminster attempted to stitch up and imprison their predecessor to stop them re-entering politics and threaten their position.

If any of this had been attempted there I doubt they would have got away with it.

Indeed it was only in Westminster that David Davis was able to blew the whistle on it. In Scotland everyone else had been silenced by the SNP's bully boy Lord Advocate and COPFS.

When the SNP tried to silence Davis at Westminster they were politely told to do one. 

So Westminster might have a lot of faults but compared to the over flowing sewer that is the SNPG these days it is starting to look relatively good.

Top trolling #Not

[exile]

3 minutes ago, aaid said:

Well it is true that he is a former SNP councillor.  However, he's a former councillor who was in the SNP rather than a current councillor who was formerly in the SNP.

He left the SNP last year to join AFI and must have joined Alba when they basically cut the legs from under them.

Yes, it is true, but it's how they spin it. As you say, it's also true that the person was ex AFI. It's also true that Stonewall etc condemned the attacks. And maybe more relevant, and more of a story really, is that members of Alba are publicly quitting already though the party is not even 3 weeks old. But... the Scotsman choose to tag the SNP into it.

[thplinth]

George Galloway actually comes across as all right in this.

 

[exile]

5 minutes ago, aaid said:

I remember when he used to promote The Ferret on his blog.

https://theferret.scot/claim-snp-funding-paedophile-charter-groups-ffs/?fbclid=IwAR3zLmfaGrlgkknP8z1d54Ght-znOn-LJbFByGAZcDAlJ9bD8xe7qCiRcyY

I hadn't seen their Ferret Fact Service rating system before

[Lamia]

55 minutes ago, exile said:

This looks like a failure of leadership at the first hurdle. Where is Alex Salmond in all this?

 

Here he is!

https://www.albaparty.org/alba_draws_a_line

[phart]

What a fucking dumpster fire.

[exile]

28 minutes ago, phart said:

Obvioulsy everywhere has it's own Noosphere

 

Noosphere - that's a new one to me!

 

4 minutes ago, phart said:

What a fucking dumpster fire.

Never let it be said that TAMB isn't a place of rich and robust debate!

[thplinth]

ALEX Salmond has issued a stark warning to those who abuse female Alba party candidates after several are claimed to have received threats over the weekend. 

Mr Salmond issued a statement today claiming the party has reported several threats to their female candidates to the police, including from SNP Holyrood hopefuls.

https://archive.is/W1xkm#selection-1457.3-1461.166

I wonder who that was.

[Archiesdad]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

affect on the number of seats . 
Also, no one answered my question ( least I dont think they did) about what is likely to hold more weight legally for a referendum , a small SNP majority or a SNP minority but with a larger number of seats for pro independence parties than we currently have ? 

My view is . A parliament representative of the people will be respected better than one that is not.

The current Scotland has a slight indy majority and a parliament showing that would be representative of the country.

A parliament having a massive or even just a super majority of indy representative would not be representative. 

Look at what Strathclyde regional council was, a massive labour run sibolith with only a small majority of voters on a low turn out. 

 

We need to show London and the World we are serious, we are not playing games. 

We also need to show the new yessers, the new 20%(45%-55%) that Nicola has brought on board that we are a serious party, a serious movement that they can trust 

We also need to give the nawwers no get out clause.

Tidy I can see you are torn at the moment, but to quote someone else,' now is not the time:' to be phannying about😊

1 +2 SNP in your region will give us Natalie and Michelle. 2 excellent candidates.👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

 

 

FFS everyone if you want a referendum vote SNP 1+2.

It's simple.👍🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

If you want to gamble or play games vote some other way.

 

[aaid]

40 minutes ago, Lamia said:

Here he is!

https://www.albaparty.org/alba_draws_a_line

Alex Salmond, the protector of Women.  Some brass neck that guy.

[thplinth]

Well the SNP do have form threatening women and failing to protect women as the Joanna Cherry example amply demonstrates. 

I can see why ALBA are not tolerating it after the SNP did (and Cherry ended up withdrawing from politics as a result).

Edited April 12, 2021 by thplinth

[Archiesdad]

4 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Well the SNP do have form threatening women and failing to protect women as the Joanna Cherry example amply demonstrates. 

I can see why ALBA are not tolerating it after the SNP did (and Cherry ended up withdrawing from politics as a result).

U don't half haver some shite thplinth.