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Asked whether the official Alba Party position was the one put forward by Ms Lynch and whether it believed the Scottish Government was complicit, the party declined to answer. "...

One of the signatories is ILGA World, a global LGBT charity whose 1,614 member organisations from 158 countries and territories include Stonewall Scotland, LGBT Youth Scotland, Unite the Union, the Universities and College Union, and the LGBT arm of the Labour Party.

This link was used as evidence that the Scottish Government is directly funding organisations who want to lower the age of consent.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alba-candidate-criticised-for-dangerous-and-irresponsible-claims-about-age-of-consent-by-charity-3196491

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39 minutes ago, phart said:

Asked whether the official Alba Party position was the one put forward by Ms Lynch and whether it believed the Scottish Government was complicit, the party declined to answer. "...

One of the signatories is ILGA World, a global LGBT charity whose 1,614 member organisations from 158 countries and territories include Stonewall Scotland, LGBT Youth Scotland, Unite the Union, the Universities and College Union, and the LGBT arm of the Labour Party.

This link was used as evidence that the Scottish Government is directly funding organisations who want to lower the age of consent.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alba-candidate-criticised-for-dangerous-and-irresponsible-claims-about-age-of-consent-by-charity-3196491

I honestly can't work out if the Alba party is trying to smear the SNP, or trying to distance themselves from the smear, while agreeing with the sentiment of the smear. Either way, can't see how this is helping win support to independence.

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  ALBA & THE SNP need to get a grip and focus on the goal, theres plenty time to argue and throw dirt after mays elections. WOS is a lost cause and although he has been useful,, he is a lose bloody cannon.. one thing is have noticed since joining twitter is the echo chamber it creates,, its really not a nice place 

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7 minutes ago, exile said:

I honestly can't work out if the Alba party is trying to smear the SNP, or trying to distance themselves from the smear, while agreeing with the sentiment of the smear. Either way, can't see how this is helping win support to independence.

I don't understand the whole thing, there's much more woman's groups that are signatories to that thing that LGBT groups but they only highlight one group

The same with "puberty blockers" they've been given to children for decades in treating precocious puberty and no one has said anything that I can see. it only becomes an issue again when Trans comes into it.

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I can't believe how divisive some of these people are. Groups which have been alleged to support lowering age of consent should simply post a public statement clearly stating that is not their intent. Alba candidate makes public apology and we all move on.  

either Scotland gets a pro-Indy majority or it will remain part of Toryland for most of not all of life times and people should shudder at that thought, more poverty, more foodbanks, more mental health problems, more nukes.

 

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3 hours ago, phart said:

I don't understand the whole thing, there's much more woman's groups that are signatories to that thing that LGBT groups but they only highlight one group

The same with "puberty blockers" they've been given to children for decades in treating precocious puberty and no one has said anything that I can see. it only becomes an issue again when Trans comes into it.

Probably because the former is evidence based treatment and the latter isn’t. 

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8 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Probably because the former is evidence based treatment and the latter isn’t. 

It's the same treatment for the same result, delaying onset of the activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal.

What's the qualatative difference that differentiates one from the other in regards to one being evidence based and the other not.

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Women's rights is actually an important area where policy between the SNP and ALBA differs.

As an example do people recall this...

How have we got to a place where female victims of sexual violence have to go public on their suffering and plead with MSPs to pass a legislative amendment that would mean they get to choose the sex of the person that examines them following rape?

How have we got to a place where women who have been sexually brutalised have to run the gauntlet of gender ideology just so they can specify they want a biological woman to examine them rather than a man?

How have we got to a place where women who have been raped get called transphobes, bigots and TERFs for insisting a woman carries out what must be the most hellish of procedures after their body has been so violated by a man?

And how have we got to a place where the national support service, set up by women for women to support women through the trauma of rape, tells victims that they have got it wrong?

Last week an important piece of policy reached its final stages in the Scottish Parliament: The Forensic Medical Services (Victims of Sexual Offences) (Scotland) Bill. It is a well overdue piece of legislation designed to improve access to healthcare services for victims of rape and sexual assault.

It follows on from the haunting revelations, back in 2017, of rape victims having to wait for up to three days without washing while a female forensic examiner could be sourced.

Imagine, three days after a sexual assault without a wash. And then think, we had then, as we still do, a woman first minister and a woman in charge of health.

The SNP had been in power for over a decade when it emerged that Scottish Government guidelines to radically improve forensic services, agreed by both the cabinet secretaries for health and justice at the time, had been sitting on a shelf since 2013. Four years when rapes didn’t stop but the government failed to implement change.

And here we are now, three years on from then, arguing about the linguistics in a bill designed to heal.

The Forensic Services Bill secured early cross-party support and at committee stage, and having heard from survivors, there was a recommendation that the use of the word ‘gender’ in relation to the criteria victims could apply pertaining to a request for who examines them was too ambiguous and that this should be changed to ‘sex’.

The Scottish Government rejected the argument for reasons that still make no sense. And, inexplicably, Rape Crisis Scotland agreed.

Meanwhile, the Scottish Labour MSP Johann Lamont, who carries with her gilt-edged credentials in feminism rooted in real women’s experiences of oppression, heroically tabled an amendment.

It was just six little words – “for the word ‘gender’ substitute ‘sex’”.

And for that, Lamont was vilified.

https://www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,six-little-words-for-the-word-gender-substitute-sex

Very simply given the wording there was a chance a rape victim could not actually specify that they wanted an actual woman to examine them. Indeed it would likely be a crime under the Hate Bill (another shocking bit of SNP legislation).

Just to give you an idea of how woke the GREENS are - they voted against it. The SNP finally yielded but only very reluctantly. 

Sounds insane right. Yeah well this is the reality of modern Scotland under Sturgeon's SNP.

Party insiders like the former Trade And Industry spokesman Iain Lawson have been shining light on the arcane and opaque processes of “vetting”, whereby people who want to be candidates themselves astonishingly have the power to block potential rivals and where “woke” candidates are receiving extremely preferential treatment, but the fait accompli is almost complete – by the time the party belatedly elects a new NEC in six weeks, candidates will be in place and it’ll be too late to change anything.

And of course, what’s revealing is who HAS been passed to stand for nomination as well as who hasn’t. Readers, meet a man called Mridul.

mridul.jpg

The person in the picture above with Nicola Sturgeon is both biologically and legally male – he has no Gender Recognition Certificate. His name is Mridul Wadhwa (Mridul is a male name in India, where he’s from) and he’s the manager of Forth Valley Rape Crisis, a job he obtained by concealing the fact that he was a man – something he appeared to enjoy bragging about before suddenly deleting his tweets on the subject.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/waiting-for-the-men/

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ALBA's issued  its official policy manifesto on equalities. Copied from wings who added the bold.

The ALBA party recognises that by dint of birth and happenstance, we are not all created nor do we live our lives as equals. Scotland’s history involves multiple injustices where chance or privilege have dictated outcomes, and today, poverty continues to be the biggest driver of inequality and a blight on our society. These days should by now be past. Surely this modern world and an independent Scotland can cater for all without loss to any.

The Scotland ALBA strives to create, envisions a level playing field where we can become truly equal to each other and where everyone’s rights are respected and protected, but, vitally, not at the cost of others.

ALBA undertakes to protect and preserve women’s rights, not at any expense to others, but as a safeguard for women and girls.

ALBA believes women have the right to discuss all policies which affect them, without being abused and silenced.

ALBA believes women have the right to maintain their sex based protections as set out in the Equality Act 2010. These include female only spaces such as changing rooms, hospital wards, sanitary and sleeping accommodation, refuges, hostels and prisons.

ALBA believes women have the right to refuse consent to males in single sex spaces or males delivering intimate services to females such as washing, dressing and counselling.

ALBA believes women have the right to single sex sports to ensure fairness and safety at all levels of competition.

ALBA believes women have the right to organise themselves according to their sex class across a range of cultural, leisure, educational and political activities.

ALBA acknowledges and promotes all of the protected characteristics of the Equality Act 2010 which are age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage or civil partnership, pregnancy or maternity, race, religion or belief, sexual orientation and sex.

Crucially, ALBA understands the controversy and pain which have characterised Scotland’s recent attempts at reform; there has been much heat and at times little light.

ALBA invites and will endorse a citizens’ assembly on how best to reform the Gender Recognition process in a respectful, sensitive and positive fashion.

ALBA acknowledges that no single protected characteristic is more virtuous or more worthy of recognition and safeguarding than another. They are all fundamentally important, each on their own, and as a collective.

We’re all equal in ALBA.

 

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10 minutes ago, phart said:

It's the same treatment for the same result, delaying onset of the activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal.

What's the qualatative difference that differentiates one from the other in regards to one being evidence based and the other not.

Is it though? 

Abnormally early puberty is called precocious puberty and is characterized by the early development of sexual characteristics in girls before the age of 8 and in boys before the age of 9. Most children with the disorder grow fast at first, but also finish growing before reaching their full genetic height potential. Left untreated, most boys will not grow taller than 5 feet 2 inches, and girls often do not grow taller than 5 feet.

https://childrensnational.org/visit/conditions-and-treatments/diabetes-hormonal-disorders/precocious-puberty

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Nicola Sturgeon has already pissed all over the launch of ALBA. 

Did that really come as a surprise. I could have told you that would happen the second after hearing about ALBA being launched. I could also have scripted the replies on here and told you exactly who would be saying it. (I can't be sure if the pantomime of pretending to make your mind up is for our benefit or for your own.)

So I don't think there is anything the SNP can say at this point that will damage the ALBA vote anymore than it already had.

In fact I think that the continued attempts to rubbish ALBA by elements within the SNP are now likely hurting the SNP1 vote more than the ALBA2 vote. 

I don't think the SNP are going to be able to campaign properly during this election. I think instead we will witness them attacking ALBA. They will be like a dog returning to its own vomit over and over. They wont be able to resist. 

Very hard to predict how that will play out with the voters. Probably just hurt both parties is my guess.

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58 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Women's rights is actually an important area where policy between the SNP and ALBA differs.

As an example do people recall this...

How have we got to a place where female victims of sexual violence have to go public on their suffering and plead with MSPs to pass a legislative amendment that would mean they get to choose the sex of the person that examines them following rape?

How have we got to a place where women who have been sexually brutalised have to run the gauntlet of gender ideology just so they can specify they want a biological woman to examine them rather than a man?

How have we got to a place where women who have been raped get called transphobes, bigots and TERFs for insisting a woman carries out what must be the most hellish of procedures after their body has been so violated by a man?

And how have we got to a place where the national support service, set up by women for women to support women through the trauma of rape, tells victims that they have got it wrong?

Last week an important piece of policy reached its final stages in the Scottish Parliament: The Forensic Medical Services (Victims of Sexual Offences) (Scotland) Bill. It is a well overdue piece of legislation designed to improve access to healthcare services for victims of rape and sexual assault.

It follows on from the haunting revelations, back in 2017, of rape victims having to wait for up to three days without washing while a female forensic examiner could be sourced.

Imagine, three days after a sexual assault without a wash. And then think, we had then, as we still do, a woman first minister and a woman in charge of health.

The SNP had been in power for over a decade when it emerged that Scottish Government guidelines to radically improve forensic services, agreed by both the cabinet secretaries for health and justice at the time, had been sitting on a shelf since 2013. Four years when rapes didn’t stop but the government failed to implement change.

And here we are now, three years on from then, arguing about the linguistics in a bill designed to heal.

The Forensic Services Bill secured early cross-party support and at committee stage, and having heard from survivors, there was a recommendation that the use of the word ‘gender’ in relation to the criteria victims could apply pertaining to a request for who examines them was too ambiguous and that this should be changed to ‘sex’.

The Scottish Government rejected the argument for reasons that still make no sense. And, inexplicably, Rape Crisis Scotland agreed.

Meanwhile, the Scottish Labour MSP Johann Lamont, who carries with her gilt-edged credentials in feminism rooted in real women’s experiences of oppression, heroically tabled an amendment.

It was just six little words – “for the word ‘gender’ substitute ‘sex’”.

And for that, Lamont was vilified.

https://www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,six-little-words-for-the-word-gender-substitute-sex

Very simply given the wording there was a chance a rape victim could not actually specify that they wanted an actual woman to examine them. Indeed it would likely be a crime under the Hate Bill (another shocking bit of SNP legislation).

Just to give you an idea of how woke the GREENS are - they voted against it. The SNP finally yielded but only very reluctantly. 

Sounds insane right. Yeah well this is the reality of modern Scotland under Sturgeon's SNP.

Party insiders like the former Trade And Industry spokesman Iain Lawson have been shining light on the arcane and opaque processes of “vetting”, whereby people who want to be candidates themselves astonishingly have the power to block potential rivals and where “woke” candidates are receiving extremely preferential treatment, but the fait accompli is almost complete – by the time the party belatedly elects a new NEC in six weeks, candidates will be in place and it’ll be too late to change anything.

And of course, what’s revealing is who HAS been passed to stand for nomination as well as who hasn’t. Readers, meet a man called Mridul.

mridul.jpg

The person in the picture above with Nicola Sturgeon is both biologically and legally male – he has no Gender Recognition Certificate. His name is Mridul Wadhwa (Mridul is a male name in India, where he’s from) and he’s the manager of Forth Valley Rape Crisis, a job he obtained by concealing the fact that he was a man – something he appeared to enjoy bragging about before suddenly deleting his tweets on the subject.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/waiting-for-the-men/

It’s like a dystopian novel. 

Appears to be affiliated with the Greens now. 

2C24F401-E869-4392-89D7-0CA437569522.png

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emoji nonce back with the two simultaneous logins. What a circus this place is. 🤣

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23 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Nicola Sturgeon has already pissed all over the launch of ALBA. 

Did that really come as a surprise. I could have told you that would happen the second after hearing about ALBA being launched. I could also have scripted the replies on here and told you exactly who would be saying it. (I can't be sure if the pantomime of pretending to make your mind up is for our benefit or for your own.)

So I don't think there is anything the SNP can say at this point that will damage the ALBA vote anymore than it already had.

In fact I think that the continued attempts to rubbish ALBA by elements within the SNP are now likely hurting the SNP1 vote more than the ALBA2 vote. 

I don't think the SNP are going to be able to campaign properly during this election. I think instead we will witness them attacking ALBA. They will be like a dog returning to its own vomit over and over. They wont be able to resist. 

Very hard to predict how that will play out with the voters. Probably just hurt both parties is my guess.

A lot of people I know, myself included, are pretty much in the vote SNP 1 and Alba 2 (while holding your nose)  Neither of them are coming out of this with much credit IMO. 

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4 minutes ago, Jim Beem said:

A lot of people I know, myself included, are pretty much in the vote SNP 1 and Alba 2 (while holding your nose)  

I'm the same, apart from the hold the nose bit. Very strange phrase, IMO. 

Is your nose held for the SNP bit, the ALBA bit, or both?

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44 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

It’s like a dystopian novel.  

It is a function of us the voters giving the SNP a political monopoly in Scotland. Nothing good typically comes from a monopoly and so it proved yet again.

We were providing a mandate for indyref2, over and over, but instead the party was used as a vehicle for the leaders personal political hobby horses. 

There is no effective opposition to  the SNP, under FPTP they were wiped out. They only really survive in Scotland on the regional vote in Holyrood, where ALBA will eat their lunch if we vote for them.

So ALBA is not an SNP clone. In fact it is going to provide some much needed competition to the SNP by providing a second independence party to vote for (who aren't the GREENS and all the woke madness that comes with them).

The SNP now know that if they do not deliver on independence, if they pursue wildly unpopular policies that no one voted for, if they attempt to bully and intimidate their own MPs or members who disagree with them, or just ignore their voices, or rig the selection process to select only woke nutcases, that an alternative now exists. ALBA's mere existence will temper and moderate all of that.

ALBA is not going to make the SNP 'up it's game' by being just like the SNP, agreeing with everything they do, that was the problem to begin with.

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14 minutes ago, thplinth said:

It is a function of us the voters giving the SNP a political monopoly in Scotland. Nothing good typically comes from a monopoly and so it proved yet again.

We were providing a mandate for indyref2, over and over, but instead the party was used as a vehicle for the leaders personal political hobby horses. 

There is no effective opposition to  the SNP, under FPTP they were wiped out. They only really survive in Scotland on the regional vote in Holyrood, where ALBA will eat their lunch if we vote for them.

So ALBA is not an SNP clone. In fact it is going to provide some much needed competition to the SNP by providing a second independence party to vote for (who aren't the GREENS and all the woke madness that comes with them).

The SNP now know that if they do not deliver on independence, if they pursue wildly unpopular policies that no one voted for, if they attempt to bully and intimidate their own MPs or members who disagree with them, or just ignore their voices, or rig the selection process to select only woke nutcases, that an alternative now exists. ALBA's mere existence will temper and moderate all of that.

ALBA is not going to make the SNP 'up it's game' by being just like the SNP, agreeing with everything they do, that was the problem to begin with.

You are doing a pretty good job of bullying and intimidating folk yourself. Its not a pantomime to be giving consideration to who you want your vote to go to. 

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It is funny but the way people talk about the SNP and ALBA it almost like they are forgetting a crucial fact.

SNP voters and ALBA voters are nearly always the same person. 

So ALBA is no more of a threat to them than the SNP is, than their own shadow is.

The same voter is animating both parties, creating both by voting for them.

So instead of a failed and vanquished unionist opposition we can now replace that with a second independence party to provide internal opposition within the independence movement while attaining a supermajority.

If we become independent we carry both parties into our new parliament and that is a much healthier state of democracy to be starting off from than one monolithic party with no effective opposition (and a history of authoritarianism).

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8 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

You are doing a pretty good job of bullying and intimidating folk yourself. Its not a pantomime to be giving consideration to who you want your vote to go to. 

Can you quote this bullying and intimidating. This is the second time you have launched and am getting a bit sick of it. 

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13 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Can you quote this bullying and intimidating. This is the second time you have launched and am getting a bit sick of it. 

No , I will reply. I havent launched anything I have replied to your post. 
Its your tone and attitude to the idea that people may not agree that SNP 1 /ALBA 2 is the best option. I am still genuinely undecided and wont be harangued into a decision. I am pretty sure I am not alone. It’s nothing to do with Alba as a party, its knowing if there would be enough support for them. Being told my decision making is a pantomime is doing nothing to encourage me. 

 I am totally fed up with all the fighting between parties and it is totally counterproductive to achieving independence. Sometimes I just wish I could go back to the days I didnt give a fook about it. 
 

43 minutes ago, thplinth said:

It is funny but the way people talk about the SNP and ALBA it almost like they are forgetting a crucial fact.

SNP voters and ALBA voters are nearly always the same person. 

So ALBA is no more of a threat to them than the SNP is, than their own shadow is.

The same voter is animating both parties, creating both by voting for them.

So instead of a failed and vanquished unionist opposition we can now replace that with a second independence party to provide internal opposition within the independence movement while attaining a supermajority.

If we become independent we carry both parties into our new parliament and that is a much healthier state of democracy to be starting off from than one monolithic party with no effective opposition (and a history of authoritarianism).

This on the other hand this would encourage me. Despite what you think not everyone is joined at the hip with a particular party and are open to persuasion if they think it will increase the chance of independence.

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17 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

No , I will reply. I havent launched anything I have replied to your post. 
Its your tone and attitude to the idea that people may not agree that SNP 1 /ALBA 2 is the best option. I am still genuinely undecided and wont be harangued into a decision. I am pretty sure I am not alone. It’s nothing to do with Alba as a party, its knowing if there would be enough support for them. Being told my decision making is a pantomime is doing nothing to encourage me. 

 I am totally fed up with all the fighting between parties and it is totally counterproductive to achieving independence. Sometimes I just wish I could go back to the days I didnt give a fook about it. 
 

This on the other hand this would encourage me. Despite what you think not everyone is joined at the hip with a particular party and are open to persuasion if they think it will increase the chance of independence.

Only problem with that is I didn't tell you that.

I primarily was referring to the Comical Ali level performance that I was discussing (briefly) on the other thread with orraloon. I am not going to single out the guy by name for the very reason that would be picking on him.

Interestingly you took that to mean you. So this is a case of 'a guilty conscience needs no accuser'. I was not bullying anyone. Bullies on here like to go around in wee gangs is more my experience.

 

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8 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Only problem with that is I didn't tell you that.

I primarily was referring to the Comical Ali level performance that I was discussing (briefly) on the other thread with orraloon. I am not going to single out the guy by name for the very reason that would be picking on him.

Interestingly you took that to mean you. So this is a case of 'a guilty conscience needs no accuser'. I was not bullying anyone. Bullies on here like to go around in wee gangs is more my experience.

 

 Funnily enough I was having a joke recently with Orraloon where he was mocking my indecision,  but in a fun way. But I didnt think you were referring specifically to me, it was more collective of any one who was still unsure, quite a few have expressed their uncertainty. I was just using myself as an example. 

We will leave it at that as we have probably both said all that is needed. 

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