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Holyrood Elections 2021


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We are past the days of (many) people paying much attention to the BBC in my opinion. 

Their audience is coffin dodging auld fucks, who are both the likely COVID victims, and no voters. 

Most people think the BBC can’t be trusted, and they are correct. 

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20 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I try not to use the bbc much these days but seeing folk talk about how the COVID situation is being covered by the unionist media, I thought I would go and have a wee look. It looks to me like the Holyrood campaign has already started and the bbc will be (as is usual) the main unionist cheerleaders. I was greeted with this headline on the "Scotland" section. 

"Covid in Scotland: Case numbers continue to soar"

So, I thought "If they are "soaring" in Scotland what word are they using for the UK?". The headlines are much more positive giving their Tory pals a platform to spout their usual pish. Not a mention of "soaring numbers", well not in the headlines anyway. 

Now, I am as worried as anybody about the high number of cases in Scotland but are they as bad as the UK as a whole? The 7 day average in Scotland is about 2300. The equivalent number for the UK would be about 28,000 but it is actually running at more than double that, at 60,000 per day. 

The bbc know as well as any of us, that a lot of people only read the headlines. This is going to be an even dirtier campaign than normal.

 

I just posted this chart on the Coronavius thread. It illustrates what you are getting at. The BBC will never use a chart like this to assure people in Scotland that the infection rate isn't out of control but is the best (least worst) in 'these islands' by some margin. It's not something to boast about or score political points over but you can't have a mature discussion about how well a Government is doing if you dont' have these basic statistics in circulation.

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9 minutes ago, kumnio said:

We are past the days of (many) people paying much attention to the BBC in my opinion. 

Their audience is coffin dodging auld fucks, who are both the likely COVID victims, and no voters. 

Most people think the BBC can’t be trusted, and they are correct. 

Still too many for my liking. But you probably tend to interact with a more youthful crowd than I do, right enough. ;)

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14 minutes ago, exile said:

I just posted this chart on the Coronavius thread. It illustrates what you are getting at. The BBC will never use a chart like this to assure people in Scotland that the infection rate isn't out of control but is the best (least worst) in 'these islands' by some margin. It's not something to boast about or score political points over but you can't have a mature discussion about how well a Government is doing if you dont' have these basic statistics in circulation.

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Holy fuk, what's happening in Ireland?

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2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Holy fuk, what's happening in Ireland?

The pubs were opened up for December, plus restrictions on house visits were relaxed. There are also thousands of Irish that work in England (London mainly) and come home every year for Xmas.

Some folk took the piss with the pubs opening up. I know of 1 person that organised meeting up with a different set of pals every night of the week.

In short, lots of super-spreading is my guess.

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7 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

The pubs were opened up for December, plus restrictions on house visits were relaxed. There are also thousands of Irish that work in England (London mainly) and come home every year for Xmas.

Some folk took the piss with the pubs opening up. I know of 1 person that organised meeting up with a different set of pals every night of the week.

In short, lots of super-spreading is my guess.

Really bad news. I hadn't noticed any mention of that surge until I saw that graph that exile posted. I initially thought it must be a mistake. It had been going so well (relatively speaking anyway) over there too. Just goes to show how easy it can get out of control. Should have shut the borders. Which is what we should have done as well. 

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1 hour ago, Dave78 said:

The pubs were opened up for December, plus restrictions on house visits were relaxed. There are also thousands of Irish that work in England (London mainly) and come home every year for Xmas.

Some folk took the piss with the pubs opening up. I know of 1 person that organised meeting up with a different set of pals every night of the week.

In short, lots of super-spreading is my guess.

Also I think that the holidays may have come at just the wrong time relative to the realisation of the virulence of the new strain. That is, it was discovered in SE England first so it had already become a noticeable problem there by mid December, that the UK Govt couldn't ignore, so had time to do a U turn on the Christmas relaxations (around 19th IIRC). But the new strain was maybe not yet so manifestly obvious in Ireland to trigger a U turn before Christmas?

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A culling of Tories, falling behind Labour.

"The poll, by SavantaComRes for The Scotsman, puts the SNP on course for a comfortable majority at the Scottish Parliamentary elections in May, with opposition parties failing to make a dent in the overall support across the country for Ms Sturgeon’s party.

Pollsters interviewed 1,016 Scottish adults aged 16 or over online between January 8 and 13 for the survey." (Scotsman)

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17 hours ago, exile said:

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A culling of Tories, falling behind Labour.

"The poll, by SavantaComRes for The Scotsman, puts the SNP on course for a comfortable majority at the Scottish Parliamentary elections in May, with opposition parties failing to make a dent in the overall support across the country for Ms Sturgeon’s party.

Pollsters interviewed 1,016 Scottish adults aged 16 or over online between January 8 and 13 for the survey." (Scotsman)

 

The Dross effect working well I see. Although will be interesting to see how Labour's Northern Branch vote holds up in the next round of polling now they've got rid of their manager. 

82 / 129 pro-independence an encouraging majority.  

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In all aspects history will decide over sturgeon, in normal times possibly she would have resigned? However the telling part for me is no replacement is being lined up, insane!! She must know That her time will shallow off?  Give me forbes(and i am going out on a limb) Very likeable, strong woman, with strong beliefs, a woman of culture 👍

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7 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

In all aspects history will decide over sturgeon, in normal times possibly she would have resigned? However the telling part for me is no replacement is being lined up, insane!! She must know That her time will shallow off?  Give me forbes(and i am going out on a limb) Very likeable, strong woman, with strong beliefs, a woman of culture 👍

she not a wee free? wonder what her view is on "marches"? would hope the Government at some point would have the bravery to ban these throw-backs or at the very least compel them to walk through parks rather than shut down main streets. 

It's not a high agenda point particularly at this time but given their time in power, I would like to see the SNP SG introduce something truly transformational like this for society. They continue to fudge too many of these issues to try to appeal to all sections and/or as wide a reach as possible - dragging their heels and failing to close loopholes in fox-hunting legislation just one example of this. 

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1 hour ago, Return of Yermaw said:

she not a wee free? wonder what her view is on "marches"? would hope the Government at some point would have the bravery to ban these throw-backs or at the very least compel them to walk through parks rather than shut down main streets. 

It's not a high agenda point particularly at this time but given their time in power, I would like to see the SNP SG introduce something truly transformational like this for society. They continue to fudge too many of these issues to try to appeal to all sections and/or as wide a reach as possible - dragging their heels and failing to close loopholes in fox-hunting legislation just one example of this. 

The Wee Frees are a distinct sect of the Kirk from those adherents who would be associated with Orangism - which what I guess you're getting at with marches.

Those in and around the Orange Lodge would tend to be Reformed Presbyterians, that's the strain of Presbyterianism most common in Ulster, flows from the Covenanters - a lot of Covenanters fled Scotland to Ulster in the 16th and 17th century to escape persecution.

The Free Church was formed out of the schism caused by the Great Disruption of 1843.

On Orange marches, no matter how unpleasant and antiquated they may be, denying the right to protest isn't a great look for any government and not something which should be encouraged, especially as those regulations could be used against you.

By all means reroute away from potential points of conflict, but an all-out ban would be counter-productive.  It's dying on its arse anyway.

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7 minutes ago, aaid said:

The Wee Frees are a distinct sect of the Kirk from those adherents who would be associated with Orangism - which what I guess you're getting at with marches.

Those in and around the Orange Lodge would tend to be Reformed Presbyterians, that's the strain of Presbyterianism most common in Ulster, flows from the Covenanters - a lot of Covenanters fled Scotland to Ulster in the 16th and 17th century to escape persecution.

The Free Church was formed out of the schism caused by the Great Disruption of 1843.

On Orange marches, no matter how unpleasant and antiquated they may be, denying the right to protest isn't a great look for any government and not something which should be encouraged, especially as those regulations could be used against you.

By all means reroute away from potential points of conflict, but an all-out ban would be counter-productive.  It's dying on its arse anyway.

I had to read your first paragraph 3 times before I realised you had typed orangism and not orgasm. I could not see the connection between orgasm and marches at all  😂

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20 hours ago, McDange said:

 

The Dross effect working well I see. Although will be interesting to see how Labour's Northern Branch vote holds up in the next round of polling now they've got rid of their manager. 

82 / 129 pro-independence an encouraging majority.  

Cue the unionist parties using the technique from the last general election should pro-independence parties take over 50% of the votes. I guarantee we'll hear them whine and protest that lots of those voters don't support independence but just like the party policies.

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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12 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

In all aspects history will decide over sturgeon, in normal times possibly she would have resigned? However the telling part for me is no replacement is being lined up, insane!! She must know That her time will shallow off?  Give me forbes(and i am going out on a limb) Very likeable, strong woman, with strong beliefs, a woman of culture 👍

Kate Forbes is a talent, definitely, and a potential future leader. She probably doesn't have the experience to be leader just yet but after stepping into the breach as finance minister and doing well she's shown she's a quick learner.

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12 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

In all aspects history will decide over sturgeon, in normal times possibly she would have resigned? However the telling part for me is no replacement is being lined up, insane!! She must know That her time will shallow off?  Give me forbes(and i am going out on a limb) Very likeable, strong woman, with strong beliefs, a woman of culture 👍

If, as expected, Angus Robertson wins Edinburgh Central then you have a ready made replacement if Sturgeon does step down. Was a great leader of the Westminster bloc and would chew up Dross for arsepaper. 

Forbes definitely one for the future.

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19 minutes ago, King Of Paisley said:

If, as expected, Angus Robertson wins Edinburgh Central then you have a ready made replacement if Sturgeon does step down. Was a great leader of the Westminster bloc and would chew up Dross for arsepaper. 

Forbes definitely one for the future.

I suspect Angus Robertson will win Edinburgh Central but it won't be as straightforwards as some suggest. 

It's a real 4-way marginal, with a lot more complex demographics than most constituencies.

In 2007, Labour won the seat with the Lib Dems and SNP neck and neck for 2nd and 3rd.  In 2011, the SNP won it with a majority of 237 from Labour and in 2016 Ruth Davidson won for the Tories.   The Lib Dems have also traditionally done here as well.

This was blamed on the Greens because Alison Johnstone stood and "split the Indy vote", letting the Tories in.   Personally, I don't blame the Greens they're perfectly entitled to stand wherever they want and it didn't change the overall arithmetic and actually meant they picked up and extra list seat as a result of the Tories winning.

Anyway, Alison Johnstone is standing again, so the SNP will have to contend with that.

in 2014, this was a strong No constituency, which in conjuction with the "Ruth factor" was enough to let the Tories come through the middle and take the seat.  However, in the Brexit referendum is was one of the strongest Remain areas in the country and that allied to the SNP having the high profile candidate should be enough to see them get through but it's one that's worth keeping an eye on.

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52 minutes ago, King Of Paisley said:

If, as expected, Angus Robertson wins Edinburgh Central then you have a ready made replacement if Sturgeon does step down. Was a great leader of the Westminster bloc and would chew up Dross for arsepaper. 

Forbes definitely one for the future.

If Angus robertson becomes leader there will be hell on and the party WILL split,, if sturgeon goes down my bet is robertson will also

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5 hours ago, aaid said:

The Wee Frees are a distinct sect of the Kirk from those adherents who would be associated with Orangism - which what I guess you're getting at with marches.

Those in and around the Orange Lodge would tend to be Reformed Presbyterians, that's the strain of Presbyterianism most common in Ulster, flows from the Covenanters - a lot of Covenanters fled Scotland to Ulster in the 16th and 17th century to escape persecution.

The Free Church was formed out of the schism caused by the Great Disruption of 1843.

On Orange marches, no matter how unpleasant and antiquated they may be, denying the right to protest isn't a great look for any government and not something which should be encouraged, especially as those regulations could be used against you.

By all means reroute away from potential points of conflict, but an all-out ban would be counter-productive.  It's dying on its arse anyway.

interesting that you consider Orange matches as a form of protest when the Order are at pains to point out that it is a celebration. Whatever way it is painted it is in reality a bigot-fest and a party in power for as long as the SNP have been should be brave enough to do something about it. If the first step is re-routing to parks, which is something I think is a good initial approach, then they should be brave enough to do that rather than constantly brush it under the carpet. 

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2 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said:

interesting that you consider Orange matches as a form of protest when the Order are at pains to point out that it is a celebration. 

Splitting hairs there.  Either way, you go down the route of banning things because you don't agree with them it doesn't end up well.   

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21 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said:

interesting that you consider Orange matches as a form of protest when the Order are at pains to point out that it is a celebration. Whatever way it is painted it is in reality a bigot-fest and a party in power for as long as the SNP have been should be brave enough to do something about it. If the first step is re-routing to parks, which is something I think is a good initial approach, then they should be brave enough to do that rather than constantly brush it under the carpet. 

Would you ban independence marches as well?

 

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