aaid Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said: Crimes will be allowed to be reported through smartwatches and Alexa devices as part of a communications overhaul by Police Scotland. Control room staff will also be able to remotely control the mobile phones of those calling in and use them to record continuing incidents. The changes are outlined in a draft strategy document which has been submitted to the Scottish Police Authority for consideration. What is the fundamental difference between allowing something like Alexa or an Apple Watch to report a crime - or order a pizza in fact - and using a land line or mobile phone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 11 hours ago, phart said: What's the specifics of the bill that are bad i've never read it. in general its not a bad thing, its the finer detail thats the problem, then humza starts coming away with pish about hate crime discussions in ones home , it leaves an open goal for opposition and pining the snp with wanting to ban free speech and being a dictatorship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 4 hours ago, aaid said: What is the fundamental difference between allowing something like Alexa or an Apple Watch to report a crime - or order a pizza in fact - and using a land line or mobile phone? Real question? This is going to levels that the stasi could only dream of. We should not be snooping on people with no criminal history in their home, which this effectively is. I’m an SNP member, who donates every month, but some of the shite that a few MPs come out with is ridiculous. I can only imagine how they come across to their detractors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said: in general its not a bad thing, its the finer detail thats the problem Like what exactly? 28 minutes ago, kumnio said: Real question? This is going to levels that the stasi could only dream of. We should not be snooping on people with no criminal history in their home, which this effectively is. I’m an SNP member, who donates every month, but some of the shite that a few MPs come out with is ridiculous. I can only imagine how they come across to their detractors. It’s not for me but if people have these digital personal assistants what’s wrong with “Alexa get me the police” as opposed to picking up a phone and dialling 999? How about someone who collapses and can’t get to the phone? This idea that the police will be using this to spy on people is Trumpian nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 53 minutes ago, aaid said: Like what exactly? It’s not for me but if people have these digital personal assistants what’s wrong with “Alexa get me the police” as opposed to picking up a phone and dialling 999? How about someone who collapses and can’t get to the phone? This idea that the police will be using this to spy on people is Trumpian nonsense ok so a comedian takes the piss out a certain part of society,, which happens to every every race, gender or religion..who decides whether that falls under the hate bill as people do get offended by comedians, rightly or wrongly...its a dangerous bill. I see the good intent but it really needs binned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: ok so a comedian takes the piss out a certain part of society,, which happens to every every race, gender or religion..who decides whether that falls under the hate bill as people do get offended by comedians, rightly or wrongly...its a dangerous bill. I see the good intent but it really needs binned I don’t believe that’s true. There was some talk that that might be the case but I understand that’s not correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, aaid said: Like what exactly? It’s not for me but if people have these digital personal assistants what’s wrong with “Alexa get me the police” as opposed to picking up a phone and dialling 999? How about someone who collapses and can’t get to the phone? This idea that the police will be using this to spy on people is Trumpian nonsense I’d bet that almost everyone that has Alexa will have an iPhone, so Siri can call 999, or an android alternative. I think you’re being quite gullible if you don’t there’s very serious issues with. It’s not being brought into legislation to simply be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Was the GRA reforms or new Hate Crime Bill in the SNP Manifesto in the 2016 Holyrood elections ? Will the SNP put either in their manifesto for the 2021 Holyrood elections ? Rightly or wrongly if the 2021 election is (once and for all) about Independence or the right to choose it is a fucking stupid gamble trying to push something through that can easily be misrepresented by the opposition and the media when you need a majority Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, kumnio said: I’d bet that almost everyone that has Alexa will have an iPhone, so Siri can call 999, or an android alternative. I think you’re being quite gullible if you don’t there’s very serious issues with. It’s not being brought into legislation to simply be helpful. So Siri is okay but Alexa isn’t? Edited November 11, 2020 by aaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 29 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Was the GRA reforms or new Hate Crime Bill in the SNP Manifesto in the 2016 Holyrood elections ? Will the SNP put either in their manifesto for the 2021 Holyrood elections ? Rightly or wrongly if the 2021 election is (once and for all) about Independence or the right to choose it is a fucking stupid gamble trying to push something through that can easily be misrepresented by the opposition and the media when you need a majority No idea about Hate Crime but GRA certainly was - it was also in the manifestos of every major party including the Tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, aaid said: I don’t believe that’s true. There was some talk that that might be the case but I understand that’s not correct. You dont believe it to be true however cant guarantee it, the vagueness of the bill is the problem Edited November 11, 2020 by hampden_loon2878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 34 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Was the GRA reforms or new Hate Crime Bill in the SNP Manifesto in the 2016 Holyrood elections ? Will the SNP put either in their manifesto for the 2021 Holyrood elections ? Rightly or wrongly if the 2021 election is (once and for all) about Independence or the right to choose it is a fucking stupid gamble trying to push something through that can easily be misrepresented by the opposition and the media when you need a majority Brilliant point and to me this will be the proof in the pudding, if they put these two issues on the manifesto folk might perceive this as a intentional way of losing a few votes that prevent a majority Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 14 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said: You dont believe it to be true however cant guarantee it, the vagueness of the bill is the problem As I understand it, this is the amendment which addresses those concerns. https://www.gov.scot/news/hate-crime-law-reform/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 This is a great example of how nonsense spreads. First of all, Police Scotland put forward a proposal that would enable digital assistants like Siri or Alexa to route a 999-style request to a emergency call handler. Essentially the same process if you have an iPhone today, have 999 in your contacts and say to the Siri app "dial 999", the difference being that instead of the application on the phone making the connection, it would happen on the server. That's all there is to it. Might not be a massive thing but as these sort of devices become more prevalent it would be seem fair enough to look into how they can be utilised and what safeguards and legislation might need to be put into place to prevent abuse. There's also some stuff about being able to send out drones to investigate calls which seems to me to be a bit less advanced. There was also something in there to allow the police to activate a mobile phone remotely - which is technically but not legally possible - in the specific situation where someone has called 999 to report a live incident and then the phone goes dead for whatever reason. The benefit to this is pretty obvious, it would allow then to monitor an ongoing situation until someone gets there and will record evidence for any future prosecution. None of this is remotely related to the Hate Crime bill. However, you have Humza Yousaf discussing the Hate Crime bill and saying that it could potentially lead to prosecutions for things said in someone's home. That in itself shouldn't be at all controversial as there is no defence of "but it was in ma hoose" for any other crime. If you punch someone in the face, you're likely to be prosecuted if it was in the street or in your house. Then you get bad faith actors conflating the two things and saying that Humza Yousaf is going to use Alexa to spy on people, secretly record their conversations and prosecute them if they say bad things about Muslims. It's obviously complete and utter bollocks but some people buy it. And then people ask why did Trump get elected and why hasn't he conceded defeat in the face of the overwhelming evidence both that he lost and that he has no evidence of fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 To be fair if you don't want recorded etc don't have a smartphone cause it's probably already happening. Don't use social media as smart AI alogorithms are learning and feeding you information to manipulate you into being more of a consumer. Don't get any sort of medical tests as companies like palantir are gathering genetic data to make you a better consumer as well. It's a hugely murky and sophisticated situation with much speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 33 minutes ago, phart said: To be fair if you don't want recorded etc don't have a smartphone cause it's probably already happening. Don't use social media as smart AI alogorithms are learning and feeding you information to manipulate you into being more of a consumer. Don't get any sort of medical tests as companies like palantir are gathering genetic data to make you a better consumer as well. It's a hugely murky and sophisticated situation with much speculation. I'd go further and say if you're concerned about tracking and social engineering, don't use the internet full stop. The internet is an enabler for a huge amount of good and also some bad, as with everything its the bad stuff that gets high lighted - which isn't a problem in itself but shouldn't detract from the positives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 2 hours ago, aaid said: As I understand it, this is the amendment which addresses those concerns. https://www.gov.scot/news/hate-crime-law-reform/ In fortunately that will not cut it with Parts the general public,, the bill is toxic now,,, rightly or wrongly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 17 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said: In fortunately that will not cut it with Parts the general public,, the bill is toxic now,,, rightly or wrongly I'm fairly confident that the majority of the "general public" haven't even heard of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 43 minutes ago, Orraloon said: I'm fairly confident that the majority of the "general public" haven't even heard of it. Or are people who read about it in the Daily Mail or Express and who would never vote for the SNP or Indy in a million years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Orraloon said: I'm fairly confident that the majority of the "general public" haven't even heard of it. Just wait to the run up to election day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 45 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Just wait to the run up to election day you can see it a mile away,, it may cost us a majority, no question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 13 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said: you can see it a mile away,, it may cost us a majority, no question Ach the country will be in the grip of Euros mania come election time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 16 hours ago, Orraloon said: I'm fairly confident that the majority of the "general public" haven't even heard of it. Yup thats me and don't really give one jot about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Toepoke said: Ach the country will be in the grip of Euros mania come election time. Which certainly won't be a bad thing for the SNP or for the wider Yes movement. I still contend that had we not made such an arse of Argentina we'd have secured the Devolution vote in 79. Mind you, if social media were around then, no doubt there'd be reams of nonsense from the tin hat brigade about Ally MacLeod being a plant and deliberately throwing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Like this Bill and Salmond stuff - sorry but its all immaterial to push for independence and to have that push we need a SNP vote share of 50%+ next year. Even if I had strong feeling (one way or the other) on this Bill I'd be smart enough to see the bigger picture. If Independence comes about we then can choose whatever party we want to shape an Independent Scotland and vote against the bill then. Who knows it may be a resurgent Scottish Labour who scrap the bill anyway. But first we need independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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