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21 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

No they were very good, I think I said as much about two of them and McCall during the euro 96 re-watch in June. But then you'll get someone on here going on about the options in the 70s and 80s and saying they weren't that good compared to those eras.

I think a little context is required. Paul Lambert was 27 when his contract expired at Motherwell. John Collins was 29 when he won French title.

A decent number of current options are 25 or under so still have time to grow and who knows who'll pick them up in the future and win trophies. I doubt anyone thought when Andy Robertson was 23 he'd be a key part of a european cup winning team two seasons later.

Hadn't McTominay broken through when Man. United won the Europa in May 2017?

No. Every player has a ceiling, and what we're seeing now IS the ceiling of our midfielders.

Collins at Celtic was a Rolls Royce, Lambert was a hidden gem at Motherwell, McAllister captained a team consisting of Cantona. 

If you're saying that our current midfielder are just waiting to blossom, yeah, well, I respectfully disagree.

We have midfielder in the Scotland u17/19 who are light years ahead of players like Jack, McGregor, McArthur, etc. 

And no. McTominay has no medals in his cabinet.

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Yaaaay chripper is back

I don’t remember a default disposition of expecting world elite players. Suddenly we’re supposed to be at Barcelona level? You omitted Billy Gilmour btw.  McTominay, Gilmour, McGinn, Turnbull, Armstro

pretty dire squad that,  be lucky to get 3 full internationals out of that 

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I don't rate McGregor that highly either, certainly shouldn't be an automatic pick in midfield.

Do you not rate Gilmour that highly or is he omitted due to his injury? Could easily win a few trophies at Chelsea by age of 25 if that's the criteria although he probably needs Lampard to stay for a few more years.

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4 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

I don't rate McGregor that highly either, certainly shouldn't be an automatic pick in midfield.

Do you not rate Gilmour that highly or is he omitted due to his injury? Could easily win a few trophies at Chelsea by age of 25 if that's the criteria although he probably needs Lampard to stay for a few more years.

Gilmour is (hopefully) going to be a star. 

He's a performance school graduate.

Watch the Scotland u 17s and the u 19s and you'll know what I'm talking about. The performance schools have been the best thing the SFA have ever done.

So yes, when people say "We're strong in midfield", it's a fantasy. McGregor is a first pick for us, and last night he didn't look any better than a Scott Brown, who is over the hill

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Just now, Taylor1996 said:

Gilmour is (hopefully) going to be a star. 

He's a performance school graduate.

Watch the Scotland u 17s and the u 19s and you'll know what I'm talking about. The performance schools have been the best thing the SFA have ever done.

So yes, when people say "We're strong in midfield", it's a fantasy. McGregor is a first pick for us, and last night he didn't look any better than a Scott Brown, who is over the hill

I’d agree with that, not sure why people think we’re strong in midfield, we’ve a few decent midfielders at best.

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5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I’d agree with that, not sure why people think we’re strong in midfield, we’ve a few decent midfielders at best.

I don't know. If McGregor, etc, joined the EPL they would hold their own. I mean, if James MacArthur can do it...

But you're right, our midfielders are "decent". Nothing more. McTominay,  before the lockdown, was on an upward curve, but since the return, he's been dreadful. 

For anyone to mention McAllister, Collins, Lambert and McCall, in the same sentence as out current midfielder choices, is... Strange. Those four got us to tournaments and won major club honours. They faces top international teams, in finals, and didn't shirk. 

This midfield mob don't have a drop of what the aforementioned quad had.

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1 hour ago, Tartan Chris said:

 

 I doubt anyone thought when Andy Robertson was 23 he'd be a key part of a european cup winning team two seasons later.

 

I suggested it when he was 21. Good old stats

Just about fits into this totally of topic thread

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6 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

I don't know. If McGregor, etc, joined the EPL they would hold their own. I mean, if James MacArthur can do it...

But you're right, our midfielders are "decent". Nothing more. McTominay,  before the lockdown, was on an upward curve, but since the return, he's been dreadful. 

For anyone to mention McAllister, Collins, Lambert and McCall, in the same sentence as out current midfielder choices, is... Strange. Those four got us to tournaments and won major club honours. They faces top international teams, in finals, and didn't shirk. 

This midfield mob don't have a drop of what the aforementioned quad had.

He probably could but after watching some EPL games towards the end of the season, the quality is shite enough that getting a game for Burnley isn’t much to get excited about. 

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13 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

He probably could but after watching some EPL games towards the end of the season, the quality is shite enough that getting a game for Burnley isn’t much to get excited about. 

Yep. Take out the top 6 and it's just an extension of the English Championship.

People see EPL teams throw around money like it's confetti and it fogs up their judgement.

In this current team, the most Bayern Munich spent on a single player is £27m, and they are an absolute machine. It puts things into perspective.

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15 hours ago, mcnish said:

Can't believe people are still arguing Hornby should still be in the senior team, I thought he'd stopped being flavour of the month by now. Not good enough to get near the Everton first team and discarded by them having not even impressed in Under-23 football, mediocre performances for a mediocre Belgian team who he lost his place at, and looked poor in recent under-21 games. Yet because he's not played senior football in England or SPL people can mythologise about him being a lot better than he is , as nobody can see him in action to disprove it.

And James Scott as well?? Are we that desperate for strikers???

The major issue with Hornby is that he’s not a natural striker. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him used more as an attacking midfielder for Reims. 

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2 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

I don't know. If McGregor, etc, joined the EPL they would hold their own. I mean, if James MacArthur can do it...

But you're right, our midfielders are "decent". Nothing more. McTominay,  before the lockdown, was on an upward curve, but since the return, he's been dreadful. 

For anyone to mention McAllister, Collins, Lambert and McCall, in the same sentence as out current midfielder choices, is... Strange. Those four got us to tournaments and won major club honours. They faces top international teams, in finals, and didn't shirk. 

This midfield mob don't have a drop of what the aforementioned quad had.

McTominay is a good player but he’s never a defensive midfielder. His lack of defensive awareness and inability to read the game will always hold him back. He’s more box to box but unfortunately he’s never going to get a game ahead of Pogba. 

For me McGinn, McGregor and Armstrong are all better than “decent”, and Ryan Jack, while not the most technically gifted, does a good job screening the defence and reads the game well.

Gilmour is the one though... hope the injury doesn’t hold him back. He can play anywhere in midfield and has the ability to be one of the very best.

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2 hours ago, SWMM82 said:

McTominay is a good player but he’s never a defensive midfielder. His lack of defensive awareness and inability to read the game will always hold him back. He’s more box to box but unfortunately he’s never going to get a game ahead of Pogba. 

For me McGinn, McGregor and Armstrong are all better than “decent”, and Ryan Jack, while not the most technically gifted, does a good job screening the defence and reads the game well.

Gilmour is the one though... hope the injury doesn’t hold him back. He can play anywhere in midfield and has the ability to be one of the very best.

Yeah. There's no way that he's an anchorman. He's a box-to-box midfielder. It's a pity that United play with the same system as we do (4-2-3-1) as it doesn't facility a box-to-box midfielder. His main strength is carrying the ball forward.

McGinn is fine, so is Armstrong, but more than decent? No. McGregor and Jack are awful.

Agreed.

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2 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

Yeah. There's no way that he's an anchorman. He's a box-to-box midfielder. It's a pity that United play with the same system as we do (4-2-3-1) as it doesn't facility a box-to-box midfielder. His main strength is carrying the ball forward.

McGinn is fine, so is Armstrong, but more than decent? No. McGregor and Jack are awful.

Agreed.

McGregor and Jack are not awful footballers. I’m disappointed that McGregor hasn’t tested himself elsewhere, but he is more than capable of playing in the EPL. 
I get that Jack isn’t for everyone because of his lack of creativity, but he has shown in Europe and against Celtic he’s effective at breaking up play and keeping it simple. Takes the sting out the game which is vital against stronger teams.

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52 minutes ago, SWMM82 said:

McGregor and Jack are not awful footballers. I’m disappointed that McGregor hasn’t tested himself elsewhere, but he is more than capable of playing in the EPL. 
I get that Jack isn’t for everyone because of his lack of creativity, but he has shown in Europe and against Celtic he’s effective at breaking up play and keeping it simple. Takes the sting out the game which is vital against stronger teams.

You can be average and still be able to play in the EPL. That league is good, but let's not pretend that it's filled with Pirlo's and Messi's.

I don't think it's a case of McGregor not testing himself elsewhere, it's more of a case of no one from a better league wanting him. There's a reason for that.

Take Turnbull, for example. In a couple of years he'll be off to the EPL because Celtic will have received an offer that they can't refuse.

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On 8/27/2020 at 5:17 PM, SWMM82 said:

McTominay is a good player but he’s never a defensive midfielder. His lack of defensive awareness and inability to read the game will always hold him back. He’s more box to box but unfortunately he’s never going to get a game ahead of Pogba. 

For me McGinn, McGregor and Armstrong are all better than “decent”, and Ryan Jack, while not the most technically gifted, does a good job screening the defence and reads the game well.

Gilmour is the one though... hope the injury doesn’t hold him back. He can play anywhere in midfield and has the ability to be one of the very best.

Lambert was an attacking midfielder and turned out to be a great defensive one. McTominay can learn. Too much pigeonholing going on here. 

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3 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

Lambert was an attacking midfielder and turned out to be a great defensive one. McTominay can learn. Too much pigeonholing going on here. 

I agree McTominay could develop his game to become a defensive midfielder, but I would much rather he improved in that position at club level before being selected for that role at international level. 
I watched him against Russia at Hampden. Golovin was having a field day picking the ball up in wee pockets which he should’ve been covering. His poor positional play and lack of awareness was shocking. Good range of passing, strong, great energy, has some strike on him too..... but poor defensively at that level. 

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For a year n a half McGregor has regressed big time for us. He’s not the same quality player he was in Brendan Rodgers first 2 n a half seasons, same with Forrest aswell As Christie too. 
 

All 3 have regressed and I’ll put it down to the absolute rotten coach that is Neil Lennon, as much as I like the man. He’s a terrible coach who’s absolutely clueless, I mean he played Christie ( a attacking midfielder) a solo striker ffs.. 
 

sooner he leaves the better, ideally I was hoping after the embarrassment against that Hungarian team he’d have got the sack and maybe be able to save this season and get the players getting played how they used to - under a quality manager. 

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4 minutes ago, ElChris04 said:

For a year n a half McGregor has regressed big time for us. He’s not the same quality player he was in Brendan Rodgers first 2 n a half seasons, same with Forrest aswell As Christie too. 
 

All 3 have regressed and I’ll put it down to the absolute rotten coach that is Neil Lennon, as much as I like the man. He’s a terrible coach who’s absolutely clueless, I mean he played Christie ( a attacking midfielder) a solo striker ffs.. 
 

sooner he leaves the better, ideally I was hoping after the embarrassment against that Hungarian team he’d have got the sack and maybe be able to save this season and get the players getting played how they used to - under a quality manager. 

Christie might have a decent shout of starting for us as a striker if he plays there for Celtic. That said, I’ve no idea how he performed in that role. 

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On 8/30/2020 at 10:01 AM, SWMM82 said:

I agree McTominay could develop his game to become a defensive midfielder, but I would much rather he improved in that position at club level before being selected for that role at international level. 
I watched him against Russia at Hampden. Golovin was having a field day picking the ball up in wee pockets which he should’ve been covering. His poor positional play and lack of awareness was shocking. Good range of passing, strong, great energy, has some strike on him too..... but poor defensively at that level. 

Fair points, but that could equally be down to a failure in management during the game.

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Getting back on topic here, everything to play for in this group. Got to say I thought McCrorie and Ferguson were great for Aberdeen yesterday and their partnership at club level can help them at under 21. Throw in Turnbull and we have a pretty decent midfield.

Always thought this cohort looked good in the Toulon tournaments and hopefully they can take it on toanother stage.  

Home matches against Czech Republic and Croatia will be key to qualifying as long as we beat Lithuania next week. Should have enough quality to do that.

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