Exam Results

[Parklife]

Aaid making a total cunt of himself here. 
 

You love to see it. 

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, phart said:

 

Every variable has consequences we live in a Causal Universe. What the variable and it's consequence happen to be is what matters. Without those defined it's a vaccous point.

I wondered when the enigmatic statements and the dictionary would come out.

Sophistry is a word you are fond of using.  Your posts on this thread have been a masterclass in sophistry, it's really quite impressive, I take my hat off to you.

[phart]

1 hour ago, exile said:

But if you don't already accept that England is doing the same kind of thing (moderation) then it seems you are seeking a more detailed point by point dissection of education that is beyond the general thrust of the debate, and in that case I'm happy to leave it to the experts. I had heard that the Irish system was similar too (ie with moderation) but I haven't had time to check it.

The important point is that there is a danger that individual students are being disadvantaged - which I said originally - and there should be a way of ensuring that doesn't happen or is minimised.

That said, it's not a black and white issue. It seems that the most deprived schools were 'marked down' more, but, it seems their grades had been overestimated more in the first place, and in the end, their final grades went up more, proportionately, compared to last year, than the less deprived schools, and so the atteinment gap has actually reduced. But from the British media reaction only the first of these points is heard, and I think it's worth airing the other points, not too partisan to do so, I think.

Incidentally I found this explanation of the system

https://theferret.scot/how-were-scottish-pupils-exam-grades-decided/

OK so we're essentially the same as England was the point not "the schools authorities in other countries are doing the same kind of thing"

Now what has been said has moved my opinion moves.

Yeah i've stated that several times in the thread and quoted relevant leading academics stating that as well in this thread. (the important point)

No one has argued it is black and white as far as I can see. I'm arguing it's bullshit that the SNP is defending a system that is fucking over bright pupils at bad schools. (to not put too fine a point on it)

All the other problems with marking are historic and aren't a product of the SNP and have been moaned about on here by me since Mcconnel was FM.

[phart]

Just now, aaid said:

I wondered when the enigmatic statements and the dictionary would come out.

Sophistry is a word you are fond of using.  Your posts on this thread have been a masterclass in sophistry, it's really quite impressive, I take my hat off to you.

You been refreshing this page constantly or something?

You wrote "do you think that an unexpected large increase in the pass rate does not have consequences for the intake into tertiary education? "

It's a nothing statement, vaccous without any actual content, asking me to comment on an undefined consequence, it;s not an argument. You spent an hour asking dumbfuck questions about medical students with zero points being made. When i tire of your nonsense you then come out all Aaid hominem

Away back to defending Rangers you ultracrepidarian.

 

 

[phart]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

I would hate anyone to think the English system will be any better than that in Scotland. The  possibility of taking exams in the autumn looks like P.R. Most A level students will already have been accepted by a university, so they'll not resit. Most who have got a job or apprenticeship will not resit. Those students who got the same or better than they expected will not resit. Only those who aren't in the first two categories and didn't get what they think they deserve might resit. Even then that's a massive ask of students who won't have had any formal education for six months and will not have completed their courses and could be sitting exams in early October. 

At GCSE students will already have been accepted on post16 courses by the time these exams come round in November so I can't see too many retaking them as they'll be three months into new courses. Of course those students who didn't get a grade 4 in Maths or English will already be enrolled on those or similar courses as part of their continuing  post 16 education.Those students probably aren't going to be wanting to 'resit' even more exams if they don't need to. 

I don't know what the appeals procedure is like in Scotland but judging from what I've looked at the system in England is very restrictive and Id be surprised if it resulted in many changes.

The English system keeps getting brought up like England gettng beat as a sop for when Scotland got humped at a game.

I'm sure it's shite as well. Although if it's geting entered into discussion it's good to accurately reflect what it is, which you're doing, but what other posters weren't.

[duncan II]

4 minutes ago, phart said:

You been refreshing this page constantly or something?

You wrote "do you think that an unexpected large increase in the pass rate does not have consequences for the intake into tertiary education? "

It's a nothing statement, vaccous without any actual content, asking me to comment on an undefined consequence, it;s not an argument. You spent an hour asking dumbfuck questions about medical students with zero points being made. When i tire of your nonsense you then come out all Aaid hominem

Away back to defending Rangers you ultracrepidarian.

 

 

Apart from awful spelling of vacuous (deliberate?) this is the best TAMB post in a long time!

[phart]

1 hour ago, exile said:

Incidentally I found this explanation of the system

https://theferret.scot/how-were-scottish-pupils-exam-grades-decided/

Here's the actual source material

https://www.sqa.org.uk/sqa/files_ccc/SQAAwardingMethodology2020Report.pdf

[aaid]

28 minutes ago, phart said:

You been refreshing this page constantly or something?

You wrote "do you think that an unexpected large increase in the pass rate does not have consequences for the intake into tertiary education? "

It's a nothing statement, vaccous without any actual content, asking me to comment on an undefined consequence, it;s not an argument. You spent an hour asking dumbfuck questions about medical students with zero points being made. When i tire of your nonsense you then come out all Aaid hominem

Away back to defending Rangers you ultracrepidarian.

 

 

Refusing to engage with substantive points, passing off your own opinion based on your - flawed - perception as fact, deflecting, ignoring inconvenient facts which don't fit your point of view, attempting to change the point of argument when you run into a corner.  

If that isn't sophistry then I don't know what is.

[phart]

15 minutes ago, aaid said:

Refusing to engage with substantive points, passing off your own opinion based on your - flawed - perception as fact, deflecting, ignoring inconvenient facts which don't fit your point of view, attempting to change the point of argument when you run into a corner.  

If that isn't sophistry then I don't know what is.

Sophistry is making an argument that appears real but isn't using deceitful reasoning. a lot of the things listed aren't actually sophistry so it would appear don't know what it is.

Anyway i'll leave you to project your faults onto me. I've already made my points on the subject. Arguing this low level nonsense holds no interest for me.

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by phart

[scotlad]

6 hours ago, phart said:

What consultation was done on problem solving he issue, cause they just implemented a system that gave them the result they always want, a slight increase in results...

Weird that after all the turmoil and upheavel the same result came in. Almost as if the system is gamed to provide it.

I would imagine it stems from a pre-arranged contingency plan, developed for this kind of eventuality and put together by stakeholders. Either that or it was cobbled together on the hoof by the SQA, but the fact that they used a computer programme to mimick the likely results suggests a bit of work has gone into it, so it was the probably the former. Certainly, there needs to be a review of the process to see if it can be improved, or if a better contingency altogether can be developed.

Bringing the pupils back into school at a later date.to actually take their exams would, obviously, have been better, but I don't know how practicable that was.

[phart]

11 minutes ago, scotlad said:

I would imagine it stems from a pre-arranged contingency plan, developed for this kind of eventuality and put together by stakeholders. Either that or it was cobbled together on the hoof by the SQA, but the fact that they used a computer programme to mimick the likely results suggests a bit of work has gone into it, so it was the probably the former. Certainly, there needs to be a review of the process to see if it can be improved, or if a better contingency altogether can be developed.

Bringing the pupils back into school at a later date.to actually take their exams would, obviously, have been better, but I don't know how practicable that was.

We have the timeline

12th March

At present there is no change to the published National Qualifications examination timetable. Our advice therefore is to continue to prepare as normal. All current deadlines for coursework and other assessments remain in place and the exam timetable is currently scheduled to run from 27 April until 4 June 2020. 

Schools and colleges should be gathering any alternative evidence on candidate performance as they would do in the normal way, and as per our guidance every year, to support any consideration of exceptional circumstances. This evidence should inform estimated grades, again as it should every year. "

19th if March

Cabinet Secretary announces the closure of schools in Scotland and the cancellation of Diet 2020 examinations and asks SQA to develop an alternative certification model —including the completion of coursework.

22nd of March

SQA announces that, according to latest public health guidance, coursework should not be completed in schools:

24th of March

SQA announces that, due to public health guidance, coursework for Higher and Advanced Higher, and some National 5 not yet uplifted, will not be considered or submitted for marking:

Edited August 8, 2020 by phart

[phart]

2nd of april

Statement announcing estimate model and that no National 5 coursework will be considered: https://www.sqa.org.uk/sqa/93777.html

SQA issues detailed guidance to teachers on estimate model, also outlining a timeline for further guidance: https://www.sqa.org.uk/sqa/93920.html

Edited August 8, 2020 by phart

[phart]

11 minutes ago, phart said:

We have the timeline

12th March

At present there is no change to the published National Qualifications examination timetable. Our advice therefore is to continue to prepare as normal. All current deadlines for coursework and other assessments remain in place and the exam timetable is currently scheduled to run from 27 April until 4 June 2020. 

Schools and colleges should be gathering any alternative evidence on candidate performance as they would do in the normal way, and as per our guidance every year, to support any consideration of exceptional circumstances. This evidence should inform estimated grades, again as it should every year. "

18th march

Joint statement from Scot Gov / SQA issued: https://www.sqa.org.uk/sqa/93577.html  present —exams going ahead as planned and schools remain open.

19th if March

Cabinet Secretary announces the closure of schools in Scotland and the cancellation of Diet 2020 examinations and asks SQA to develop an alternative certification model —including the completion of coursework.

22nd of March

SQA announces that, according to latest public health guidance, coursework should not be completed in schools:

24th of March

SQA announces that, due to public health guidance, coursework for Higher and Advanced Higher, and some National 5 not yet uplifted, will not be considered or submitted for marking:

Missed out the meeting the day before schools were closed stating they would remain open.

Edited August 8, 2020 by phart

[phart]

 

[slasher]

The bottom line here is that as former leaders in education we should be doing better. Our kids deserve the best our leaders can offer them and they’re not getting it. The current government are showing all the classic signs of people who’ve had it all their own way for too long and I say that as a passionate supporter of independence. Listen!

[exile]

17 hours ago, phart said:

OK so we're essentially the same as England was the point not "the schools authorities in other countries are doing the same kind of thing"

 

Why are you trying to say what my point is?  I've said what my point was, not going to keep repeating. I mentioned Ireland, you mentioned England, fair enough, those are other countries.

[Hertsscot]

18 hours ago, phart said:

The English system keeps getting brought up like England gettng beat as a sop for when Scotland got humped at a game.

I'm sure it's shite as well. Although if it's geting entered into discussion it's good to accurately reflect what it is, which you're doing, but what other posters weren't.

I agree that Scotland needs to go beyond just comparing itself to England whether that's football, education or Covid. I'm not defending the SNP record on education as I'm in no position to judge, others on this board are far better placed to judge. What does concern me is that some Unionists are going to use this as a stick with which to beat the SNP when their parties South of the border don't raise a squeak about a system which as far as I can make out is pretty similar. I've seen the same thing with certain teaching unions as well, making a big fuss in Scotland and not raising a whisper about similar matters in England.  As always there are other agendas at work.

at least in Scotland it's raised questions about young people life chances based on educational achievement and schooling, down here I'm not sure anyone's going to give a toss, certainly the media won't make it a big deal.

[phart]

1 hour ago, exile said:

Why are you trying to say what my point is?  I've said what my point was, not going to keep repeating. I mentioned Ireland, you mentioned England, fair enough, those are other countries.

You do realise that i'm quoting you each time? "the schools authorities in other countries are doing the same kind of thing, I wonder why - perhaps it is the least worst solution? "

It's a weak and irrelevant point and arguable not even factually correct used to argue that the current decision by the SQA is "the least worst solution". I'm just arguing that isn't the case. What you think about arguing that is of zero interest to me personally. I'm interested in the merit of the argument not who made it.

[phart]

33 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

I agree that Scotland needs to go beyond just comparing itself to England whether that's football, education or Covid. I'm not defending the SNP record on education as I'm in no position to judge, others on this board are far better placed to judge. What does concern me is that some Unionists are going to use this as a stick with which to beat the SNP when their parties South of the border don't raise a squeak about a system which as far as I can make out is pretty similar. I've seen the same thing with certain teaching unions as well, making a big fuss in Scotland and not raising a whisper about similar matters in England.  As always there are other agendas at work.

at least in Scotland it's raised questions about young people life chances based on educational achievement and schooling, down here I'm not sure anyone's going to give a toss, certainly the media won't make it a big deal.

Yeah but you have to ask yourself what's more important, the future of bright students at bad schools or what the unionist press/parties will say about you.

As essentially they're sacrificing the hard work of already disadvantaged kids to make it a politically more comfortable enviroment for them. That personally doesn't sit well with me.

[Parklife]

22 hours ago, phart said:

You been refreshing this page constantly or something?

You wrote "do you think that an unexpected large increase in the pass rate does not have consequences for the intake into tertiary education? "

It's a nothing statement, vaccous without any actual content, asking me to comment on an undefined consequence, it;s not an argument. You spent an hour asking dumbfuck questions about medical students with zero points being made. When i tire of your nonsense you then come out all Aaid hominem

Away back to defending Rangers you ultracrepidarian.

 

 

The best slap I've ever seen on the TAMB. Outstanding, Mr Phart. "Aaid hominem". Genius. 😂

[phart]

25 minutes ago, Parklife said:

The best slap I've ever seen on the TAMB. Outstanding, Mr Phart. "Aaid hominem". Genius. 😂

thplinth coined it not me.

[Kirk]

On 8/8/2020 at 10:43 AM, Squirrelhumper said:

How do you explain pupils going from A's to C's then if it's not just a guess from the SQA based on historical results of that school?

Sadly the SNP are going to feel the effects of this next year at Holyrood unless they somehow manager to sort this mess. Getting a competent Education Secretary would be a start.

 

I honestly doubt this will make a major difference to how the SNP do at Holyrood

[dipped flake]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:02 PM, phart said:

You can Appeal in England and sit an exam as well.

"According to new clarification from the exam watchdog Ofqual, schools in England will be able to lodge appeals if they can show that grades are lower than expected because previous cohorts are not “representative” of this year’s students."

 

 

Pupils can't appeal in england

[Parklife]

4 hours ago, phart said:

thplinth coined it not me.

Ahh. Apologies @thplinth

[phart]

33 minutes ago, dipped flake said:

Pupils can't appeal in england

That's from a newspaper

"Pupils will be allowed to challenge "unfair" A-level and GCSE grades after the exam regulator changed its stance in the face of a backlash from headteachers."

been widely reported in the last 3 days, what makes you think the reporting is incorrent?

On government guidance too

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/appeal-arrangements-for-as-a-levels-and-gcses

 

Edited August 9, 2020 by phart