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thesaint

scotland top 50 players

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4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Sure, assuming someone made a thread about it. If raising the exposure of the female game is the ultimate end game, this isn’t the way to go about it I think. 

It might not be. But it certainly has us talking about them hahaha. More so than a thread about top female players I would suggest.

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2 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

There almost certainly are. I'm not sure the argument of if they had more supporters they would get the recognition makes sense. I think that should be the other way around right?

No, if the womens league were getting Championship or even League 1 or 2 crowds, then their games would get reported more, as it would be a clear sign of there being reasonable interest in it.

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11 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

Maybe it's not about you, or even me? Maybe there's a wee boy or girl who sees the list and asks their dad who Julie Fleeting is? I think it's a nice thing. But I also understand why you guys don't. 

What has nice got to do with it.It should be based on the truth.That's what matters.The truth isn't always popular.

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Just now, kumnio said:

No, if the womens league were getting Championship or even League 1 or 2 crowds, then their games would get reported more, as it would be a clear sign of there being reasonable interest in it.

What I'm trying to say is if they get more exposure and recognition they will get larger crowds.

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7 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

Firstly, that's very impressive. Well done! Secondly, no. You don't strike me as someone who would benefit greatly from affirmative action.

Haha sadly you’re right. Although I did get to meet Davie Provan ... 

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Just now, Orraloon said:

Aside from the women. Kenny Miller at no.26 and Scott Broon at no. 12?????? Holy fuk.

hahaha now that's a bigger point of contention. 

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4 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

What I'm trying to say is if they get more exposure and recognition they will get larger crowds.

Its 2020, if people don't know women play fitba, then im not sure Id trust them to attend a fitba game.

Edited by kumnio

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3 minutes ago, thesaint said:

What has nice got to do with it.It should be based on the truth.That's what matters.The truth isn't always popular.

Haven't you heard buddy? We're living in a post-truth era.

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4 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Aside from the women. Kenny Miller at no.26 and Scott Broon at no. 12?????? Holy fuk.

Both should be top 10

  • Haha 2

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1 minute ago, kumnio said:

Its 2020, if people don't know women play fitba, then im not sure Id trust them to attend a fitba game.

Why isnt ice hockey or speedway being promoted on the BBC like womens fitba. Male sport tends to get the exposure and recognition it deserves.

Well, ice hockey gets a lot more promotion in Canada than football does. I'm pretty sure Canadians know male football exists. So what's going on there? 

I think you might be surprised by some of the attitudes and levels of ignorance that prevail in 2020.

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2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Both should be top 10

Neither of them are top 10 material

  1. Jim Leighton
  2. John Greig
  3. Alex McLeish
  4. Willie Miller
  5. Maurice Malpas
  6. Paul McStay
  7. Graeme Souness
  8. Gary McAllister
  9. Kenny Dalglish
  10. Joe Jordan
  11. John Collins

Theres 11 for a start

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4 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

Well, ice hockey gets a lot more promotion in Canada than football does. I'm pretty sure Canadians know male football exists. So what's going on there? 

I think you might be surprised by some of the attitudes and levels of ignorance that prevail in 2020.

Ice hockey is Canadas national sport, along with lacrosse, so they will get much more recognition, the way it should be.

Of course ignorance exists, but thats trying to paint a picture that probably doesn't exist. I find it hard to believe that even 10% of people in the UK dont know that womens fitba exists, they just don't care. 

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4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Is it ignorant to think women’s football is a bit pish? 

Not at all. It would be ignorant to think that it's incapable of becoming not a bit pish.

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Just now, mrniaboc said:

Not at all. It would be ignorant to think that it's incapable of becoming not a bit pish.

And maybe in 2060 there really will be a woman capable of being in top 50, but currently, its just utter nonsense. Thats the important bit in this issue.

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1 minute ago, kumnio said:

Ice hockey is Canadas national sport, along with lacrosse, so they will get much more recognition, the way it should be.

Of course ignorance exists, but thats trying to paint a picture that probably doesn't exist. I find it hard to believe that even 10% of people in the UK dont know that womens fitba exists, they just don't care. 

indeed, but my point is that I think the percentage of people caring has increased under recent promotional efforts, such as the World Cup on BBC etc.

Promotion leads to recognition. 

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Just now, mrniaboc said:

indeed, but my point is that I think the percentage of people caring has increased under recent promotional efforts, such as the World Cup on BBC etc.

Promotion leads to recognition. 

It increased in Scotland for a month due to the World Cup, but people watch the hurdles and the javelin at the Olympics, because its a big event and its on TV, the next week, no one cares.

There is a market for womens fitba, but its tiny, and always will be. No amount of promotion will change that IMO. I know 5 women that go to Scotland games, including one that goes to rugby as well, not one of them has been to a female sporting event, and they said they have no interest in womens fitba. 

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3 minutes ago, kumnio said:

And maybe in 2060 there really will be a woman capable of being in top 50, but currently, its just utter nonsense. Thats the important bit in this issue.

Maybe. And perhaps in 2060 people will look back in the records and say "Fuck me, that Fleeting was a player! 116 goals at top level in a Scotland shirt. How sad that she lived in an era where she was not fully recognised her efforts."?

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6 minutes ago, kumnio said:

It increased in Scotland for a month due to the World Cup, but people watch the hurdles and the javelin at the Olympics, because its a big event and its on TV, the next week, no one cares.

There is a market for womens fitba, but its tiny, and always will be. No amount of promotion will change that IMO. I know 5 women that go to Scotland games, including one that goes to rugby as well, not one of them has been to a female sporting event, and they said they have no interest in womens fitba. 

You might be right. But I wonder what would happen if it was on BBC every week. I know I wouldn't be nearly as interested in the EPL if it wasn't for Match of the Day being every present in my formative years. I used to love Italian football because of that highlights show on Channel 4 when I was a kid. I dont think I'm in any way predisposed to liking Italian football more than German football?

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2 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

Maybe. And perhaps in 2060 people will look back in the records and say "Fuck me, that Fleeting was a player! 116 goals at top level in a Scotland shirt. How sad that she lived in an era where she was not fully recognised her efforts."?

This is the issue though, you think she deserves recognition, the vast majority of people simply dont care about a minority sport. She doesn't deserve it simply for being a woman who has done well, thats patronising sexist pish.

No one gives Judo, Cricket, Swimming etc etc etc national champions, even those that do well at European or World level a second  though, because for the most part, no one cares. You cant force people to treat all sportspeople the same as Messi and Ronaldo.

People like certain sports, everyone is different, you cant force people to think all achievements are equal, quite simply because they arent. Julie Fleeting was a good player, but sadly at a sport that almost no one cares about, and thats the pretty simple truth.

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2 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

You might be right. But I wonder what would happen if it was on BBC every week. I know I wouldn't be nearly as interested in the EPL if it wasn't for Match of the Day being every present in my formative years. I used to love Italian football because of that highlights show on Channel 4 when I was a kid. I dont think I'm in any way predisposed to liking Italian football more than German football?

Italian football was exceptional back then. It was miles ahead of Scottish and English fitba, so it was a massive draw, its incomparable to womens fitba IMO.

Those interested in fitba tend to watch SPFL or EPL games, and they will rightly or wrongly compare any womens fitba to that. Even after England doing well at the women World Cup, attendances didnt increase significantly, because it was still viewed as a poor product.

People will watch one off events out of interest, an ongoing weekly attendance, even interest is highly unlikely for womens fitba. How many people watching Hendry or Higgins win at the World Snooker Championship, and less than 0.1% of them/us would even think about attending a snooker league match.

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6 minutes ago, kumnio said:

This is the issue though, you think she deserves recognition, the vast majority of people simply dont care about a minority sport. She doesn't deserve it simply for being a woman who has done well, thats patronising sexist pish.

No one gives Judo, Cricket, Swimming etc etc etc national champions, even those that do well at European or World level a second  though, because for the most part, no one cares. You cant force people to treat all sportspeople the same as Messi and Ronaldo.

People like certain sports, everyone is different, you cant force people to think all achievements are equal, quite simply because they arent. Julie Fleeting was a good player, but sadly at a sport that almost no one cares about, and thats the pretty simple truth.

It wasn't about judo. It was about Scottish football players, and she's scored more goals than any other Scotland player at any level, and it's the top level she's capable of competing at. I have zero issues with it. But it's ok for us to disagree on that.

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