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Hopes for 2020/21


SkyBlueScot

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7 hours ago, syecosse said:

Another decent prospect is the Reading Centre back Mcintyre he was apparently excellent on Saturday, Reading fans really rate him and hope he now keeps his place. 

No idea how he has struggled to get game time at Reading, no long term injury as far as I saw. He played very well at left back the week before so we could play him there if needed.

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4 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Hmm is this the same Che Adams who had a worse strike rate in several seasons in non-league football than Fraser Hornby had in Belgium (and yes he could score there he netted three goals in twelve games). The same Che Adams who has one goal in 25 in the EPL - makes Ollie McBurnie look like Pele to me. Nah leave him on the rubbish tip - we do not need to go head hunting his sort with neither the record or the heart for the job. I'd sooner stick with Shankland who has shown he can score at international level or even Oliver Burke now playing in the top flight in Spain with a better strike rate than Adams.

Adams played non league football when he was 17, his record in the last 3 seasons in the championship with Birmingham was 38 goals in 123 games. The season before his move to the epl he scored 22 league goals and was one of the top goal scorers in the championship. This is what earned him a 20m move til the epl. To suggest that hornby who Tbf could end up better than him is somehow a better choice currently is daft imo. Hornby has scored a grand total of 4 goals in his career. 

Shankland hasn't proven he can score at international level. One goal v san marino is not proof. 

End of the day I don't want Adams nor do I think hes a very good striker but to suggest he wouldn't walk into our squad tomorrow is silly. Theres only 2 available strikers that could be argued are better than him and thats mcburnie and Griffiths, suggesting shankland is a better striker or a guy whos 20 and scored 4 goals at Pro level is better than him is daft imo. 

 

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3 hours ago, scotlad said:

The casual observer might conclude that there could be some correlation between this and our continuing failure to qualify for a major tournament (since we haven't done so since the 1990s). This is the TAMB though, and we know the real reason is because the SFA just keep hiring managers who get their tactics wrong.

Other than Griffiths and McBurnie, our current options at centre-forward are: Lawrence Shankland (who has an excellent scoring record - against part-time players), Steven Naismith (34 on his birthday), Callum Paterson and Chris Martin (who have both scored fewer between them in the same division that McBurnie scored 20 odd goals last season), Oliver Burke, Matt Phillips and Johnny Russell (who aren't really centre-forwards). It's not hard to imagine that someone like Grant, who's still only 22 but has scored nearly 18 goals for a poor team, could improve on that - if he opts to play for us.

Its pretty obvious but ppl on here can't see past the whole he "doesn't want to play for us" when judging a players ability. I don't want any English rejects but fact is if in three years time grant or even Adams decides to play for us then theres a good chance we will bend over and accommodate them. We did it with matt Ritchie, quashie, James morrison and lots more. 

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8 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Ritchie, Quashie and Morrison all appear to have said "yes" the first time when they were approached.

They didn't need to be chased for years and years until they finally said "yes".

Adams can GTF. Don't need or want him.

"I have been asked to prove my grandfather came from Scotland, but that is no problem. He was born in Glasgow and I'd be very interested in playing for Scotland. I'd never given up hope of forcing my way into the full England set-up but I would consider playing for Scotland." 

Thats a quote from quashie. 

Morrison later chose to represent Scotland, claiming that he felt his "opportunities with England will be limited"

Quote from morrison

You telling me these guys wanted to choose us over England? 

Edited by mccaughey85
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13 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Adams played non league football when he was 17, his record in the last 3 seasons in the championship with Birmingham was 38 goals in 123 games. The season before his move to the epl he scored 22 league goals and was one of the top goal scorers in the championship. This is what earned him a 20m move til the epl. To suggest that hornby who Tbf could end up better than him is somehow a better choice currently is daft imo. Hornby has scored a grand total of 4 goals in his career. 

Shankland hasn't proven he can score at international level. One goal v san marino is not proof. 

End of the day I don't want Adams nor do I think hes a very good striker but to suggest he wouldn't walk into our squad tomorrow is silly. Theres only 2 available strikers that could be argued are better than him and thats mcburnie and Griffiths, suggesting shankland is a better striker or a guy whos 20 and scored 4 goals at Pro level is better than him is daft imo. 

 

Take the Adams specs off for a sec eh? He played 73 games at non-league level (some way down the pyramid too) and scored 14 goals averaging a goal every five and a bit games. At Championship level he averages a goal just under every four games. No goals in two appearances for England U-20's which is certainly a level below Shankland netting V San Marino however you wish to paint it. One goal in 25 EPL starts says a heck of a lot and is way below what the likes of McBurnie and what Steven Naismith managed at Everton at that level.

And how would you feel about giving a chance to a player who has already told us all we need to know - HE DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY FOR US.

So not only are his credentials dubious he does not want to play for us. No thanks.

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1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Take the Adams specs off for a sec eh? He played 73 games at non-league level (some way down the pyramid too) and scored 14 goals averaging a goal every five and a bit games. At Championship level he averages a goal just under every four games. No goals in two appearances for England U-20's which is certainly a level below Shankland netting V San Marino however you wish to paint it. One goal in 25 EPL starts says a heck of a lot and is way below what the likes of McBurnie and what Steven Naismith managed at Everton at that level.

And how would you feel about giving a chance to a player who has already told us all we need to know - HE DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY FOR US.

So not only are his credentials dubious he does not want to play for us. No thanks.

Shankland has never even made it to English championship level, I am a fan of shankland but hes proven zero at any kind of respectable level and until he does he is not at Adams level. Your trawling up Adams record from when he was 17. I have already said I don't rate Adams very highly but to suggest the guy wouldn't get in our squads if he was Scottish born and bred is absolutely daft. 

Steven naismith is 33 and going to be playing second tier Scottish football next season. 

Simple question for you, if Adams was Scottish born and bred would you have him in the Scotland squad?

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2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Shankland has never even made it to English championship level, I am a fan of shankland but hes proven zero at any kind of respectable level and until he does he is not at Adams level. Your trawling up Adams record from when he was 17. I have already said I don't rate Adams very highly but to suggest the guy wouldn't get in our squads if he was Scottish born and bred is absolutely daft. 

Steven naismith is 33 and going to be playing second tier Scottish football next season. 

Simple question for you, if Adams was Scottish born and bred would you have him in the Scotland squad?

Shankland is a proven prolific goalscorer - at every level he has played at he has scored goals on an average of a goal every two games. Adams cannot make that claim and himself has very limited experience in the top flight without being a glowing success. Adams has played at levels similar to Shankland with a far worse strike rate. Why?

Yes Steven Naismith is 33 but can still do a job for us as seen with goals recently. So he will be playing in the second tier in Scotland? He has already proven his ability at the highest level.

A simple answer for you - no  I would not have him in the squad. Strikers would be Griffiths, McBurnie, Shankland and Naismith with likes of McNulty and Burke as back up.

You are making the false assumption that because I (and others) don't rate him it is because he is English and that is irrelevant. I have been right behind many English-born players that have represented us over the years - could be because they had the desire to represent us whereas he doesn't. How you can go on pursuing this when he has already kicked you squarely in the nuts is beyond me.

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25 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

"I have been asked to prove my grandfather came from Scotland, but that is no problem. He was born in Glasgow and I'd be very interested in playing for Scotland. I'd never given up hope of forcing my way into the full England set-up but I would consider playing for Scotland." 

Thats a quote from quashie. 

Morrison later chose to represent Scotland, claiming that he felt his "opportunities with England will be limited"

Quote from morrison

You telling me these guys wanted to choose us over England? 

I didn't say that their original preference wasn't for England. That's wilfully misquoting me. Nice try. 

What I did say was that they appear to have said "yes" to Scotland without the need to be chased for ages.

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Just now, ErsatzThistle said:

I didn't say that their original preference wasn't for England. That's wilfully misquoting me. Nice try. 

What I did say was that they appear to have said "yes" to Scotland without the need to be chased for ages.

Your ignoring the fact that had they been asked at the age of 20/21 to represent scotland their answer would of been no. Theres a reason they never played for us until their mid twenties and that was because we knew they would say no to us. They held out hopes for England and realised they would never be picked and we were the back up option. Adams done what qaushie and morrison would of done had we asked them at 21 and thats said no to us. 

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Just now, mccaughey85 said:

Your ignoring the fact that had they been asked at the age of 20/21 to represent scotland their answer would of been no. Theres a reason they never played for us until their mid twenties and that was because we knew they would say no to us. They held out hopes for England and realised they would never be picked and we were the back up option. Adams done what qaushie and morrison would of done had we asked them at 21 and thats said no to us. 

There's no point debating with you if you keep twisting my answers. Forget it.

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27 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Shankland is a proven prolific goalscorer - at every level he has played at he has scored goals on an average of a goal every two games. Adams cannot make that claim and himself has very limited experience in the top flight without being a glowing success. Adams has played at levels similar to Shankland with a far worse strike rate. Why?

Yes Steven Naismith is 33 but can still do a job for us as seen with goals recently. So he will be playing in the second tier in Scotland? He has already proven his ability at the highest level.

A simple answer for you - no  I would not have him in the squad. Strikers would be Griffiths, McBurnie, Shankland and Naismith with likes of McNulty and Burke as back up.

You are making the false assumption that because I (and others) don't rate him it is because he is English and that is irrelevant. I have been right behind many English-born players that have represented us over the years - could be because they had the desire to represent us whereas he doesn't. How you can go on pursuing this when he has already kicked you squarely in the nuts is beyond me.

So if I score more goals in the Scottish fourth tier or in the Highland league should I be considered before a guy scoring 1 in 4 in the English championship. I don't think you quite get how poor the Scottish championship is. It's a fact that shankland has never scored goals at a respectable level of football. Adams played at shanklands level when he was 16/17 meanwhile shankland at the age of 24 was still playing the equivalent of non league football. Your trying to compare Adams at 16 to shankland at 24.

I find it astonishing you would want mcnulty and burke before Adams(assuming Adams was Scottish). 

Mcnulty has never scored goals at a respectable level and burke isn't even a striker. Burke hasn't scored goals at any level as well. 

Christ why dont you suggest that Peterheads striker is better than Adams because hes scored more goals than him. 

Sorry but if you think Adams wouldn't get in the Scotland squad if he was Scottish then your deluded to say the least. 

"How you can go on pursuing this when he has already kicked you squarely in the nuts is beyond me." 

I have already said I don't want the guy in our squad so where is this coming from? I am able to seperate the issue of whether he wants to play for us and whether hes good enough to play for us. You obviously can't by the fact you want guys playing at non league level over guys playing in the epl. 

Edited by mccaughey85
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17 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

There's no point debating with you if you keep twisting my answers. Forget it.

Never twisted your answers, its pretty obvious that we are not first choice of the guys mentioned and they would of rejected us at 21. They are no different to grant and Adams imo. Only difference is we never bothered asking them when they were 21.

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14 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

So if I score more goals in the Scottish fourth tier of in the Highland league should I be considered before a guy scoring 1 in 4 in the English championship. I don't think you quite get how poor the Scottish championship is. It's a fact that shankland has never scored goals at a respectable level of football. Adams played at shanklands level when he was 16/17 meanwhile shankland at the age of 24 was still playing the equivalent of non league football. Your trying to compare Adams at 16 to shankland at 24.

I find it astonishing you would want mcnulty and burke before Adams(assuming Adams was Scottish). 

Mcnulty has never scored goals at a respectable level and burke isn't even a striker. Burke hasn't scored goals at any level as well. 

Christ why dont you suggest that Peterheads striker is better than Adams because hes scored more goals than him. 

Sorry but if you think Adams wouldn't get in the Scotland squad if he was Scottish then your deluded to say the least. 

"How you can go on pursuing this when he has already kicked you squarely in the nuts is beyond me." 

I have already said I don't want the guy in our squad so where is this coming from? I am able to seperate the issue of whether he wants to play for us and whether hes good enough to play for us. You obviously can't by the fact you want guys playing at non league level over guys playing in the epl. 

I could reel off several players who have an even better strike rate at Champioship level than Adams who I would not push for a place in our squad.

McNulty has a goal every two games in the SPL - far better than Adams has managed anywhere in his career and over his career has better strike rate and both have had lengthy spells of football outside the top flight of football. Oliver Burke has played in the top flight in Germany, England, Spain and Scotland and has scored at international level - I'd say those stats alone place him above Adams too.

Hmm so I am deluded? I am not the one pushing for a player to be in the Scotland squad who has already turned us down. Sounds to me like you are the deluded one if you think Adams will play for us or it is even a possibility.

And I suggest you revisit your knowledge on levels of football - I have not put forward anyone to play for Scotland who are currently playing at non-league level. Like Ersatz Thistle said stop twisting my words.

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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9 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I could reel off several players who have an even better strike rate at Champioship level than Adams who I would not push for a place in our squad.

McNulty has a goal every two games in the SPL - far better than Adams has managed anywhere in his career and over his career has better strike rate and both have had lengthy spells of football outside the top flight of football. Oliver Burke has played in the top flight in Germany, England, Spain and Scotland and has scored at international level - I'd say those stats alone place him above Adams too.

Hmm so I am deluded? I am not the one pushing for a player to be in the Scotland squad who has already turned us down. Sounds to me like you are the deluded one if you think Adams will play for us or it is even a possibility.

And I suggest you revisit your knowledge on levels of football - I have not put forward anyone to play for Scotland who are currently playing at non-league level. Like Ersatz Thistle said stop twisting my words.

"I could reel off several players who have an even better strike rate at Champioship level than Adams who I would not push for a place in our squad".

Name them? Chris Martin was named in our squads when he was scoring goals in the championship and Steven fletcher is all but retired. Both those players are hardly doing great at championship level over the past couple of seasons. Adams is 23 and has room for improvement. There are no young upcoming Scottish strikers scoring goals at a decent level barring mcburnie. To suggest we would overlook a 23 year old player who scores at English championship level and has earned a 20m move til an epl club is ridiculous. 

Mcnulty will be getting bought for 20m soon I guess. 

Burke has flopped everywhere he's gone, do you watch alaves games, not to mention hes not even a striker, we only pick him as a striker due to the complete lack of talent in that position. Same with matt Philips, we pick the guy as a forward due to the fact that we have no young strikers scoring at English championship level to pick. If Adams was Scottish we wouldn't even resort to picking Philips and burke up front. 

"Hmm so I am deluded? I am not the one pushing for a player to be in the Scotland squad who has already turned us down. Sounds to me like you are the deluded one if you think Adams will play for us or it is even a possibility." 

You claim I am twisting your words but its you that's doing that, I have never said I want Adams in our squad nor have I pushed for it, I have merely pointed out that we would never turn down a 23 yo 20m striker who has scored at English championship level if he was Scottish. Your suggestion that we would is purely based on the fact he isn't Scottish and he rejected us. Either that or you think that players who score at non league level (Scottish championship) are better than guys who score at relatively high professional level. 

Scottish championship is probably akin to non league football. If you are being kind you could maybe stretch it to league 2. 

Your suggesting guys like mcnulty and shankland are better players than Adams which imo is completely rubbish and is shown by the fact that mcnulty will never make it to the epl and couldn't score in the English championship and shankland who was still playing the equivalent of non league football at the age of 24.

Another simple question for you, do you think Clarke would pick Adams if he was Scottish born and bred?

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3 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

"I could reel off several players who have an even better strike rate at Champioship level than Adams who I would not push for a place in our squad".

Name them? Chris Martin was named in our squads when he was scoring goals in the championship and Steven fletcher is all but retired. Both those players are hardly doing great at championship level over the past couple of seasons. Adams is 23 and has room for improvement. There are no young upcoming Scottish strikers scoring goals at a decent level barring mcburnie. To suggest we would overlook a 23 year old player who scores at English championship level and has earned a 20m move til an epl club is ridiculous. 

Mcnulty will be getting bought for 20m soon I guess. 

Burke has flopped everywhere he's gone, do you watch alaves games, not to mention hes not even a striker, we only pick him as a striker due to the complete lack of talent in that position. Same with matt Philips, we pick the guy as a forward due to the fact that we have no young strikers scoring at English championship level to pick. If Adams was Scottish we wouldn't even resort to picking Philips and burke up front. 

"Hmm so I am deluded? I am not the one pushing for a player to be in the Scotland squad who has already turned us down. Sounds to me like you are the deluded one if you think Adams will play for us or it is even a possibility." 

You claim I am twisting your words but its you that's doing that, I have never said I want Adams in our squad nor have I pushed for it, I have merely pointed out that we would never turn down a 23 yo 20m striker who has scored at English championship level if he was Scottish. Your suggestion that we would is purely based on the fact he isn't Scottish and he rejected us. Either that or you think that players who score at non league level (Scottish championship) are better than guys who score at relatively high professional level. 

Scottish championship is probably akin to non league football. If you are being kind you could maybe stretch it to league 2. 

Your suggesting guys like mcnulty and shankland are better players than Adams which imo is completely rubbish and is shown by the fact that mcnulty will never make it to the epl and couldn't score in the English championship and shankland who was still playing the equivalent of non league football at the age of 24.

Another simple question for you, do you think Clarke would pick Adams if he was Scottish born and bred?

I'll leave you to continue your very odd agenda. I have better things to do than argue the toss over a player who has no interest in playing for us and who has scored only one goal at top level football.

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3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I'll leave you to continue your very odd agenda. I have better things to do than argue the toss over a player who has no interest in playing for us and who has scored only one goal at top level football.

Theres no agenda, I have merely pointed out the facts that grant and Adams will be selected if they make themselves available and no amount patriotism and anger on here will change this fact. 

Do you think Clarke would select Adams or grant if they made themselves available?

I have no doubt he would and I have no doubt that they are better options(ability wise) than all our strikers barring 2/3. I am able to seperate the issue of do they want to play for us and are they good enough to play for us. 

And for the record I DONT want them to play for us. I am also a fan of shankland and hopefully he bangs them in at spl level as we are desperate for decent strikers. 

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5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Take the Adams specs off for a sec eh? He played 73 games at non-league level (some way down the pyramid too) and scored 14 goals averaging a goal every five and a bit games. At Championship level he averages a goal just under every four games. No goals in two appearances for England U-20's which is certainly a level below Shankland netting V San Marino however you wish to paint it. One goal in 25 EPL starts says a heck of a lot and is way below what the likes of McBurnie and what Steven Naismith managed at Everton at that level.

And how would you feel about giving a chance to a player who has already told us all we need to know - HE DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY FOR US.

So not only are his credentials dubious he does not want to play for us. No thanks.

As I remember it, when he was asked last year about playing for us he said he didn't want to make a firm commitment about his international allegiance at that time.

Now, that isn't an answer that suggests he's champing at the bit to play for Scotland, but considering he's also eligible for two other countries (Antigua and England) he exactly nailing his colours to either of their masts either.

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Shankland is a proven prolific goalscorer - at every level he has played at he has scored goals on an average of a goal every two games. Adams cannot make that claim and himself has very limited experience in the top flight without being a glowing success. Adams has played at levels similar to Shankland with a far worse strike rate. Why?

Yes Steven Naismith is 33 but can still do a job for us as seen with goals recently. So he will be playing in the second tier in Scotland? He has already proven his ability at the highest level.

A simple answer for you - no  I would not have him in the squad. Strikers would be Griffiths, McBurnie, Shankland and Naismith with likes of McNulty and Burke as back up.

You are making the false assumption that because I (and others) don't rate him it is because he is English and that is irrelevant. I have been right behind many English-born players that have represented us over the years - could be because they had the desire to represent us whereas he doesn't. How you can go on pursuing this when he has already kicked you squarely in the nuts is beyond me.

Marc McNulty has to be one of the worst players ever to represent Scotland! He can't get a game for a team who play in the same division Adams scored 20+ goals last season. He had a brief purple patch for Hibs last season but other than that he's struggled outside the English lower leagues and our own second tier. You'd pick him over a forward who, granted, has a poor strike rate this season but is at least getting a fairly regular game in one of the most demanding leagues in the world??

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I guess these are the young strikers we'd be hoping to have a breakthrough in these next two seasons:

Fraser Hornby (20) RIEMS(ST)
Jack Aitchison (19) CELTIC ST loan to Forest Green
Dapo Mebude (18) RANGERS ST
Connor Mclennan (20) ABDEEN ST
Kai Kennedy (18) RANGERS ST
James Scott (19) HULL ST
Louis Appere (21) DUNDEE UTD ST
Kieron Bowie (17) FULHAM loan to Raith ST

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1 hour ago, SkyBlueScot said:

I guess these are the young strikers we'd be hoping to have a breakthrough in these next two seasons:

Fraser Hornby (20) RIEMS(ST)
Jack Aitchison (19) CELTIC ST loan to Forest Green
Dapo Mebude (18) RANGERS ST
Connor Mclennan (20) ABDEEN ST
Kai Kennedy (18) RANGERS ST
James Scott (19) HULL ST
Louis Appere (21) DUNDEE UTD ST
Kieron Bowie (17) FULHAM loan to Raith ST

Hornby is probably the most promising imo. Mclennan is more a winger I think. Aitchison did well on his loan but it was league 2 and hes 20. He needs to be playing regular football at a higher level next season. Can't see him getting a game at celtic so it would be best to get a loan move. James Scott has started well at Hull but I am not sure if hes playing striker for Hull. 

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What really excites me is the possibility that in the next season or two we might see the rise of a couple more top class players. In the two years since I joined the TAMB we've seen the stellar rise of 6 players, namely Robbo, McTominay, McGinn, Fraser, KT, and Gilmour. Imagine we could add just two or three to that list over the next two years? Our squads looked a lot worse two years ago, and I hope in two years time I'm saying the same thing about our current squads.

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20 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

What really excites me is the possibility that in the next season or two we might see the rise of a couple more top class players. In the two years since I joined the TAMB we've seen the stellar rise of 6 players, namely Robbo, McTominay, McGinn, Fraser, KT, and Gilmour. Imagine we could add just two or three to that list over the next two years? Our squads looked a lot worse two years ago, and I hope in two years time I'm saying the same thing about our current squads.

I’m hopeful Liam Morrison and Leon King emerge as top class centre backs. If that happens, and we find a striker, then we’re really in business.

I also expect to see Ryan Gauld back in contention next season. 

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5 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

I’m hopeful Liam Morrison and Leon King emerge as top class centre backs. If that happens, and we find a striker, then we’re really in business.

I also expect to see Ryan Gauld back in contention next season. 

If you offered me just one of them playing for a top half league team in any top European league, I would bite your hand off.

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