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exile

Black Lives Matter... in Scotland

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Capitalism kills 20 million folk a year so as bad as communism was shown to be and it was bad, it seems humans manage to make other humans suffer regardless of what political theory they're under.

This is a good book on the problems in the West specifically the states. One of the authors was born in Edinburgh, won a nobel Prize too, don't think he has a youtube channel though.

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Hmmm...actually it looks very questionable.

https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/05/04/whats-behind-the-rise-in-deaths-of-despair/

Also I am not sure it is legitimate or even tasteful to equate what is essentially the Opioid Crisis in the USA with The Killing Fields of Cambodia, The Chinese Cultural Revolution and Stalin's Great Purge to name just a few. 

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4 hours ago, exile said:

Back to Scotland here and now...

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This letter has been criticised for implying "equivalence of peaceful anti-racist protestors with violent far-right racist thugs"

I dont think there is anything wrong with the letter. The point they are making ( along with criticising the government ) is that social distancing is recklessly  being ignored by both the protestors and the thugs. 
I sympathise with many of the issues various protestors have , but by grouping together in a pandemic to try and highlight one problem, they are potentially fuelling another problem by creating another spike  . 
 

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2 hours ago, thplinth said:

Hmmm...actually it looks very questionable.

https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2020/05/04/whats-behind-the-rise-in-deaths-of-despair/

Also I am not sure it is legitimate or even tasteful to equate what is essentially the Opioid Crisis in the USA with The Killing Fields of Cambodia, The Chinese Cultural Revolution and Stalin's Great Purge to name just a few. 

Looks questionable over a review in an online conservative magazine created by William Buckley Jr to advance his political views versus research by a nobel prize winner... interesting weighing of the data, can you be anymore specific about why it looks questionable and under what context or did your google search (you've obviously not read the book) not inform you of that?

Here's another follow study they did : http://www.princeton.edu/~accase/downloads/Mortality_and_Morbidity_in_21st_Century_Case-Deaton-BPEA-published.pdf

"Building on our earlier research (Case and Deaton 2015), wefind that mortality and morbidity among white non-Hispanic Americans in midlife since the turn of the century continued to climb through 2015. Additional increases in drug overdoses, suicides, and alcohol-related liver mortality—particularly among those with a high school degree or less—are responsible for an overall increase in all-cause mortality among whites. We find marked dif-ferences in mortality by race and education, with mortality among white non- Hispanics (males and females) rising for those without a college degree, and falling for those with a college degree. In contrast, mortality rates among blacks and Hispanics have continued to fall.."

 

No comparison was done, "This is a good book on the problems in the West specifically the states" was what i said.

If we're just going to do a headcount of deaths caused by regimes under a political systems. We have 6 million in Africa in the 70's by the US alone, see the book in search for enemies John Stockwell for that. We have the Iraq war. We have the Bengali Famine. Opium wars etc. In fact there are so many to list. Free markets gave us slavery and child workers.

Communism isn't the answer to anything really. It's no more a boogey man than Capitalism though.

Edited by phart
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9 hours ago, phart said:

To be fair the letter isn't using it in that context. It's saying there is no mitigating cause to breaking the laws/guidelines for dealing with a pandemic. As opposed to trying to make a comparison between the two camps.

I guess it's all about context. I agree that the letter makes sense in the context of the pandemic; and reminding people that any gathering is illegal is strictly correct.

But my guess is the critics were getting at the wider context of what else is going on. While a peaceful protest is presumably illegal, a violent, disorderly, Nazi-saluting, racially-aggravated one is possibly considered more threatening by most people, as well as presumably breaking more rules - but the letter focuses only on the pandemic rules, not the other offences.

 

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5 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I dont think there is anything wrong with the letter. The point they are making ( along with criticising the government ) is that social distancing is recklessly  being ignored by both the protestors and the thugs. 
I sympathise with many of the issues various protestors have , but by grouping together in a pandemic to try and highlight one problem, they are potentially fuelling another problem by creating another spike  . 
 

Sure -  I agree that its irresponsible for people to be protesting in crowded groups (actually I thought the first minister made clear that was out of bounds and did discourage protest)

As I said above, I think the critics' problem with the letter is that it implies the only problem is breaking social distancing - as if violence, racist abuse and intimidation [from whichever side] are not worth a mention.

Edited by exile

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I'll be heading along to the anti racism protest this morning, hopefully a good turnout to show these fascist cunts they are hugely outnumbered in this city.

Might see you there @thplinth, what statue will you be defending? I'll pop over and say hello.

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35 minutes ago, Mox said:

I'll be heading along to the anti racism protest this morning, hopefully a good turnout to show these fascist cunts they are hugely outnumbered in this city.

Might see you there @thplinth, what statue will you be defending? I'll pop over and say hello.

So you are breaking the corona virus advice along with your friends I take it?  Just as bad as the loonies you are against.  Absolute nuts.

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2 hours ago, Mox said:

I'll be heading along to the anti racism protest this morning, hopefully a good turnout to show these fascist cunts they are hugely outnumbered in this city.

Might see you there @thplinth, what statue will you be defending? I'll pop over and say hello.

I can see why.

Crowds of thick racist knuckledraggers shouting moronic abuse at each other. It must be a home from home for you Mox. Enjoy your big day out.

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1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

😂😂😂 looks a cracking day though 

+ Not sure about the social distancing. It's hard to tell.

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1 minute ago, exile said:

+ Not sure about the social distancing. It's hard to tell.

Just a symptom of oppression by the nation state. 

:sing: 

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6 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Just a symptom of oppression by the nation state. 

:sing: 

They are also chanting "No Border, No Nations" "No deportations" "Refugees are welcome here."

So the nation state well and truly on the back foot. Or is it knee?

Edited by exile

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15 hours ago, exile said:

Sure -  I agree that its irresponsible for people to be protesting in crowded groups (actually I thought the first minister made clear that was out of bounds and did discourage protest)

As I said above, I think the critics' problem with the letter is that it implies the only problem is breaking social distancing - as if violence, racist abuse and intimidation [from whichever side] are not worth a mention.

I can understand how some people might feel that way ,he could perhaps have left out, or expanded on,  the second last paragragh which touches on disorder. But, IMO,  too often these days  people are looking to criticise something that , literally , just isnt there. 
I may be being a bit naive here but if I was reading that letter from a neutral stance, all I would see is the condemnation of social distancing rules being broken by both sides which I think is the main focus of the letter. I am pretty sure there are other letters or statements condemning the violence as a separate  issue. 
 

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2 minutes ago, exile said:

They are also chanting "No Border, No Nations" "No deportations" "Refugees are welcome here."

So the nation state well and truly on the back foot. Or is it knee?

It’s a cracking wee tune. I’ll probably be singing it for the rest of the night now.

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48 minutes ago, exile said:

They are also chanting "No Border, No Nations" "No deportations" "Refugees are welcome here."

So the nation state well and truly on the back foot. Or is it knee?

The "no borders no nations" certainly didn't have the participation of the crowd in comparison to the refugees are welcome here. Although the UNITY chant bombed the most. 

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Reading the tweets responding to that I see yet another fake Orwell quote. They're pervasive and it's actually pretty funny so many folk keen to "cite" 1984 without actually having read it.

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2 hours ago, Shaundy said:

Happy summer solstice, mid summer’s day , first day of summer , world humanist day everybody.

Happy solstice, see solstice thread.

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3 hours ago, phart said:

The "no borders no nations" certainly didn't have the participation of the crowd in comparison to the refugees are welcome here. Although the UNITY chant bombed the most. 

Noticed that.

You could almost hear the crowd collectively thinking 'uhhh, but i support Scottish independence, so, ummmm'....

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Green Brigade turning up and getting everyone kettled at the end apparently b

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