Black Lives Matter... in Scotland

[ParisInAKilt]

12 hours ago, exile said:

Yes, that's the same parallel I was saying earlier. People can criticise a specific party or organisation, but you can still support the more general movement.

It depends if by "BLM" you mean you support a particular organisation, such as this, or just mean you "support black people" in some other way. 

I guess everyone has a different take on it but for me, the important point of the broader "black lives matter" agenda is to be on the side of reform, and not only recognising but rebalancing things to redress systematic disadvantage; rather than simply saying all races are or should be equal. Everyone is free to adopt a position on the spectrum. But I guess I'm saying that criticism of BLM the US organisation isn't / needn't / shouldn't be taken as an argument to resist reform here.

 

Suppose it depends what reform looks like etc BLM apparently thinks white supremacy is everywhere so I wouldn’t expect rationale solutions when that’s your starting point. 

[exile]

22 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Suppose it depends what reform looks like etc BLM apparently thinks white supremacy is everywhere so I wouldn’t expect rationale solutions when that’s your starting point. 

I'd say it doesn't matter what "BLM" says, or what any group who we suspect are extremists might say. Pointing out the flaws in militant/extremist positions doesn't seem to get very far.

I think the better starting point is whether we think there is need for reform, and then explore the possibilities for what kinds of reform would be appropriate.

If we take the Scottish Parliament once more as an example. If we think the current ethnic composition - or gender balance - is OK, then there is no need for reform, and there may be little point in discussing solutions. But if we think, this proportion is less than ideal, let's actually do something about it, say in time for Holyrood 2021, then we could get somewhere. 

[ParisInAKilt]

46 minutes ago, exile said:

I'd say it doesn't matter what "BLM" says, or what any group who we suspect are extremists might say. Pointing out the flaws in militant/extremist positions doesn't seem to get very far.

I think the better starting point is whether we think there is need for reform, and then explore the possibilities for what kinds of reform would be appropriate.

If we take the Scottish Parliament once more as an example. If we think the current ethnic composition - or gender balance - is OK, then there is no need for reform, and there may be little point in discussing solutions. But if we think, this proportion is less than ideal, let's actually do something about it, say in time for Holyrood 2021, then we could get somewhere. 

Not sure they are seen as extremists. Anyway I find it all very depressing this culture war pish online. I can’t pretend to know what it’s like in America so whatever happens from this will happen. 

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, exile said:

I'd say it doesn't matter what "BLM" says, or what any group who we suspect are extremists might say. Pointing out the flaws in militant/extremist positions doesn't seem to get very far.

I think the better starting point is whether we think there is need for reform, and then explore the possibilities for what kinds of reform would be appropriate.

If we take the Scottish Parliament once more as an example. If we think the current ethnic composition - or gender balance - is OK, then there is no need for reform, and there may be little point in discussing solutions. But if we think, this proportion is less than ideal, let's actually do something about it, say in time for Holyrood 2021, then we could get somewhere. 

Who decides if there is a need for reform or not though?

 

[exile]

10 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Who decides if there is a need for reform or not though?

 

Any of us.

[phart]

10 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Who decides if there is a need for reform or not though?

 

If you think the situation is as good as it can realistically be then you don't need reform, if you think it's not then you need reform.

[ParisInAKilt]

[aaid]

38 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I'm not sure if it's just you, the person who drew the cartoon or both of you that's missing the somewhat obvious point there.  

[ParisInAKilt]

 

[exile]

1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

But nothing is immutable. That's the point, at least of those advocating reform.

Things don't need to be the way they are. We can change them. If we want.

Edited July 3, 2020 by exile

[biffer]

On 7/1/2020 at 9:03 PM, thplinth said:

Arrogance is a poor imitation of intelligence.

🤣🤣 of all the people to post this.

[biffer]

2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Seriously, what point do you think that’s making? 

[phart]

2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Whoever drew that has a simpletons undertsanding of the situation. Also they need to look up what immutable means.

Did you find it profound lol?

[thplinth]

23 minutes ago, biffer said:

🤣🤣 of all the people to post this.

...of all the people to quote it. A guilty conscience really does need no accuser.

[phart]

What trait is a white person born with that gives them an immutable advantages, can we have an example? With trait being: a genetically determined characteristic.

Also demonstrate the aboves assertion has a preponderance of support in both the KKK and BLM movement.

There we go a nice wee exam question.

[phart]

We can settle the intelligence debate easily. There's a plethora of measuring methods related to trying to objectively measure it. Instead of everyone saying how fast they(or rather how slow someone else is) are we can just run a race and sort it that way. A nice wee bit of drama for the board as well. Could even crowd source it a wee prize pool etc.

Edited July 3, 2020 by phart

[ParisInAKilt]

14 minutes ago, phart said:

Whoever drew that has a simpletons undertsanding of the situation. Also they need to look up what immutable means.

Did you find it profound lol?

 

10 minutes ago, phart said:

What trait is a white person born with that gives them an immutable advantages, can we have an example? With trait being: a genetically determined characteristic.

Also demonstrate the aboves assertion has a preponderance of support in both the KKK and BLM movement.

There we go a nice wee exam question.

I read it as a dig at white privilege 

[thplinth]

I am not getting into this particular bitch fest but my read of the cartoon is that authour is (rightly or wrongly) suggesting that the KKK and BLM are just different sides of the same racist coin. (Don't shoot the messenger folks.) So I can see why it pulled so many triggers and I am not touching it! Oh and the word immutable is fine. That does not make the statement true but.

 

 

[phart]

Guys i'm not getting involved in this bitch fest but...

 

Different sides of the samer racist coin by both believing the white "race" have  traits that give them immutable advantages over other races?

Makes no sense, but i also am not getting involved in this bitch fest, well apart from actually getting involved insinuating secret knowledge that I wont disclose cause i'm taking the high road.

I know why you think it's fine but I won't be touching it.

[thplinth]

19 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

 

I read it as a dig at white privilege 

Don't you mean priviledge.

[ParisInAKilt]

3 minutes ago, phart said:

Different sides of the samer racist coin by both believing the white "race" have  traits that give them immutable advantages over other races?

Both are wrong

[thplinth]

And that is me doing them a favour as they missed out the second 'i' as well. lol.

[aaid]

57 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

 

I read it as a dig at white privilege 

In what way do you see that as a dig at white privilege? 

[ParisInAKilt]

15 minutes ago, aaid said:

In what way do you see that as a dig at white privilege? 

Because it uses that term and the statement from both characters is obviously nonsense 

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Because it uses that term and the statement from both characters is obviously nonsense 

In what way is the statement obviously nonsense - would you disagree that to be born white doesn't set you up with inherent advantages over every other race on the planet?

Before anyone tries to imbue that as some sort of "white supremacist" message, it is a reflection that power and wealth lies primarily with white people, not that being white itself makes you in anyway special.