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Black Lives Matter... in Scotland


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If you were to say...

All Black people are 'this' or 'that'.

Then whatever you say... it is going to be a racist statement. You are attributing some trait or characteristic to All Black people and it is the 'All' that makes it racist. You are talking about hundreds of millions of people from a vast array of countries and family and societal backgrounds and a huge amount of other variables. So if you attribute something to all of them based on them being black alone it is the very definition of a racist statement.

Another example...

All White people are privileged or racist.

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8 minutes ago, aaid said:

In what way is the statement obviously nonsense - would you disagree that to be born white doesn't set you up with inherent advantages over every other race on the planet?

Before anyone tries to imbue that as some sort of "white supremacist" message, it is a reflection that power and wealth lies primarily with white people, not that being white itself makes you in anyway special.

Yeah I’d disagree with that

Although the bit in bold might be correct, it lies with a very small % of white people, what if someone was to replace Jewish with white?

Edited by ParisInAKilt
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18 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Yeah I’d disagree with that

Although the bit in bold might be correct, it lies with a very small % of white people, what if someone was to replace Jewish with white?

Then they would be wrong.

Okay then.   Two kids, born in the same hospital on the same day, one black, one white.  Which child is more likely to have better outcomes in life.

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9 minutes ago, aaid said:

Then they would be wrong.

Okay then.   Two kids, born in the same hospital on the same day, one black, one white.  Which child is more likely to have better outcomes in life.

Wrong and accused of other naughty words, yet as thplinth points out, white people are x is widely accepted. 

As for your question, it would depend on other variables. I did read or see somewhere that black kids born into middle class families are outperforming white middle class kids in the US now but unsure how accurate that is.  

Edited by ParisInAKilt
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30 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Yeah I’d disagree with that

Although the bit in bold might be correct, it lies with a very small % of white people, what if someone was to replace Jewish with white?

Just as an aside was speaking about this the opposite way around with Starkey:

Slavery was not genocide otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or Britain would there? An awful lot of them survived.

Imagine Starkey had used this type of logic when discussing the Holocaust because about 60-65% of their population survived - police would likely be involved and he'd never work again.  Instead his punishment so far  seems a bit tokenistic and can see him being on QT within a year.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Just as an aside was speaking about this the opposite way around with Starkey:

Slavery was not genocide otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or Britain would there? An awful lot of them survived.

Imagine Starkey had used this type of logic when discussing the Holocaust because about 60-65% of their population survived - police would likely be involved and he'd never work again.  Instead his punishment so far  seems a bit tokenistic and can see him being on QT within a year.

 

 

 

It’s a crude way of making his point that’s for sure, for all his faults I don’t mind Starkey for how he dealt with Laurie Penny 

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Asian Americans are the demographic who are absolutely crushing it right now in the States. Funnily enough all the racism does not hold them back. Weird. And the top of the tree are Japanese Americans (who were rounded up into internment camps during WWII). But despite them doing much better than Whites we don't hear anything about Asian Privilege for some reason.

There are a lot of reasons why one demographic does better than the other. Apparently growing up in a home where both parents were present is a big advantage. Asian kids  on average do significantly more home study than Whites, it pays off. Culturally there is a strong work ethic in some asian countries that see them gradually rise to the top wherever they go. The Chinese in Indonesia are the wealthiest demographic despite suffering heavy oppression. You see this in other countries with a significant Chinese community. How highly regarded is attaining a higher education is another important variable and in particular for the scientific, engineering and technical fields. Drug use is another. Crime rates. There are a lot of far more important variables that determine how well one demographic does versus an other than race..

One of the things that is really taking a toll on the White demographic in the US is the opioid crisis. Devastating.

But race hustlers gotta hustle.

Edited by thplinth
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40 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

 

As for your question, it would depend on other variables. I did read or see somewhere that black kids born into middle class families are outperforming white middle class kids in the US now but unsure how accurate that is.  

Don't duck the question - which kid, given the same basic start in life and the same basic upbringing would be more likely to have better outcomes.

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38 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Wrong and accused of other naughty words, yet as thplinth points out, white people are x is widely accepted. 

As for your question, it would depend on other variables. I did read or see somewhere that black kids born into middle class families are outperforming white middle class kids in the US now but unsure how accurate that is.  

I think it's getting there that's the tricky part.  Random but saw Coach Carter on Netflix and hadn't watched it in yonks.  Essentially they made a film about a guy who got 30% of a school basketball team to college when a school in inner city US with a '1' ranking/funding is lucky to get 1-2 students to college usually per class so he worked wonders.  Only thought after watching it this time about how many kids in US go to college on average  and its 70% so once found that out its a bit weird that something like that is both enough of a success to justify a film and yet a massive failure at the same time.  

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1 minute ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I think it's getting there that's the tricky part.  Random but saw Coach Carter on Netflix and hadn't watched it in yonks.  Essentially they made a film about a guy who got 30% of a school basketball team to college when a school in inner city US with a '1' ranking/funding is lucky to get 1-2 students to college usually per class so he worked wonders.  Only thought after watching it this time about how many kids in US go to college on average  and its 70% so once found that out its a bit weird that something like that is both enough of a success to justify a film and yet a massive failure at the same time.  

Haha I actually watched this as well recently. A lot of black privilege in the NBA ;) 

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13 minutes ago, thplinth said:

One of the things that is really taking a toll on the White demographic in the US is the opioid crisis. Devastating.

 

Funnily enough the reasons for it being a White problem circle right back around to the question at hand. Note the reference to the authors of the study i linked earlier.

"Economists Anne Case and Angus Deaton report that the life expectancy of US White persons has declined...

...At the same time, addiction neuroscience, biotechnology, federal regulation, and drug marketing each contributed to the representation of the opioid overdose epidemic as a White problem, subject to interventions distinct from those of the US War on Drugs. The resulting racialized differences between heroin and prescription opioid control resembled those created by the 1986 law distinguishing crack from powder cocaine that led the United States to the highest incarceration rates in the world, with Black and Hispanic men six and three times, respectively, as likely as White men to serve time

Through the 1990s, the US National Institute on Drug Abuse prioritized neuroscience that located addiction in the brain, supporting the idea that technologies such as sustained-release capsules could reduce addiction by preventing the reinforcing “rush” of high blood levels of opioids, while lessening attention to social context. It also made the racial patterning of opioid marketing and regulation less visible for public scrutiny.5 In the United States, where insurance coverage and access to physicians are racially stratified, opioid prescriptions disproportionately went to White patients, whereas non-White patients, even those with access to a physician, were less likely to be prescribed opioids, which increased racial differences in opioid use.

When nonmedical opioid use increased in White communities, rather than arresting consumers, regulators mandated physicians to use Prescription Drug Monitoring Programs, instituted voluntary take-back programs for unused medication, and disseminated the opioid overdose reversal medication naloxone, while passing Good Samaritan laws to protect those calling for emergency assistance during an overdose from drug charges. The arrest rate for sale or possession of manufactured drugs was one-quarter that for the sale or possession of heroin or cocaine,6 even though prescription opioid misuse far exceeded heroin use.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5105018/

Empty slogans and talking about hustling aren't arguments they're demonstrations of partisanship.

Edited by phart
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Just now, ParisInAKilt said:

I answered your question. 

No, you didn't you, you gave some waffle about "oh it depends on lots of circumstances", which is of course true as every kid is different but when you are talking in the general sense, isn't relevant.

I'll try and make it even simpler for you - do you agree with this.    A black kid and white kid, given the same basic upbringing, quality of parenting, access to education, relative prosperity, etc., etc, will have the same general life prospects as each other but with one crucial difference.  The white kid won't suffer from any discrimination* because of his colour, whereas the black kid will be discriminated against and the level of that will have negative impacts on his life prospects.


*and don't give me any crap about affirmative action

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Another paper

The past decade in the U.S. has been marked by a media fascination with the white prescription opioid cum heroin user. In this paper, we contrast media coverage of white non-medical opioid users with that of black and brown heroin users to show how divergent representations lead to different public and policy responses. A content analysis of 100 popular press articles from 2001 and 2011 in which half describe heroin users and half describe prescription opioid users revealed a consistent contrast between criminalized urban black and Latino heroin injectors with sympathetic portrayals of suburban white prescription opioid users. Media coverage of the suburban and rural opioid “epidemic” of the 2000s helped draw a symbolic, and then legal, distinction between (urban) heroin addiction and (suburban and rural) prescription opioid addiction that is reminiscent of the legal distinction between crack cocaine and powder cocaine of the 1980s and 90s.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5121004/

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Just now, aaid said:

No, you didn't you, you gave some waffle about "oh it depends on lots of circumstances", which is of course true as every kid is different but when you are talking in the general sense, isn't relevant.

I'll try and make it even simpler for you - do you agree with this.    A black kid and white kid, given the same basic upbringing, quality of parenting, access to education, relative prosperity, etc., etc, will have the same general life prospects as each other but with one crucial difference.  The white kid won't suffer from any discrimination* because of his colour, whereas the black kid will be discriminated against and the level of that will have negative impacts on his life prospects.

I don’t agree 

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I'm going to get the last word so you pair might as well stop trying to get it.

Not answering questions in a debate disqualifies you from partcipating in said debate in my opinion as well. You have zero credibility when refusing to answer.

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1 minute ago, phart said:

I'm going to get the last word so you pair might as well stop trying to get it.

Not answering questions in a debate disqualifies you from partcipating in said debate in my opinion as well. You have zero credibility when refusing to answer.

Not sure if that’s directed at myself but I did answer his question and tried to quote everyone who replies to the picture post last page

#thelastword

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Surprised no one has mentioned access to Capital as a major factor in aiding your chances of "success".

The Black population  by and large have no access to institutional capital to start new businesses etc. If you are born white and attend elite schools in developed societies you will have almost unlimited access to capital through the social networks inherent in those schools / colleges. 

And then of course there's the whole parenting & financial security thing.

 

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I listen to The Guardian Football podcasts, they had an episode on racism in the UK. Some black ex footballer, I didn’t catch his name, thinks racism in England is worse than America, because in England they are nice to your face, but call you names in private. So black people in America, think you are lucky, only to get killed or even shot. 

While there is obviously an issue, as usual it’s being hijacked by complete wallopers on far left and far right, who are far closer to each other than they would ever think they are. 

Edited by kumnio
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28 minutes ago, phart said:

Another paper

The past decade in the U.S. has been marked by a media fascination with the white prescription opioid cum heroin user. In this paper, we contrast media coverage of white non-medical opioid users with that of black and brown heroin users to show how divergent representations lead to different public and policy responses. A content analysis of 100 popular press articles from 2001 and 2011 in which half describe heroin users and half describe prescription opioid users revealed a consistent contrast between criminalized urban black and Latino heroin injectors with sympathetic portrayals of suburban white prescription opioid users. Media coverage of the suburban and rural opioid “epidemic” of the 2000s helped draw a symbolic, and then legal, distinction between (urban) heroin addiction and (suburban and rural) prescription opioid addiction that is reminiscent of the legal distinction between crack cocaine and powder cocaine of the 1980s and 90s.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5121004/

 

Mark Renton knew the score....

"One bottle of Valium, which i've already procured from my Mother, who is - in her own domestic and socially acceptable way - also a drug addict".

 

 

 

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