Dave78 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 14 minutes ago, Tartan_Don said: Why the red flag ? See the post above from exile, and the link aaid posted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_Don Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Thanks, I had a read over it. BLM - you are supporting an injustice in society WLM - you are racist and oppressive Every life matters - you are ignoring the injustice in society and therefore giving preferencal treatment to racism and oppression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 BLM just seems like an obvious divide and conquer tactic, it has almost universal establishment backing from google to the Bundesliga. It’s not a revolutionary movement, not that I doubt the intentions of most involved. I’ve never experienced systemic racism so wouldn’t pretend to know what it feels like. Just can’t help but feel that stuff like this is engineered to create racial tensions between normal folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 The only issue i hace with the BLM movement is when the attention turns to football. Lampard and gerrard are often compared to campbell and cole because of the jobs thet arw in, even the idiot john barnes used that example, thats despite him walking into a high profile job at celtic like gerrard did at rangers. It was refreshing to see lampard say sterling is wrong to compare the four mentioned above. The question has to be asked why there are not any more black coaches??? Is it because of their skin colour? Is it because the black players dont go on to get their badges? If not then why dont they get their badges? Jermaine defoe doesnt think its worth it because he doesnt think he will get a chance if he gets his badges, thats the spirit jermaine, give up before you even start. How many black coaches have applied for jobs and been declined and who were they up against? Its not exactly yesterday but both ruud gullit and frank rijkaard got high profile jobs very quickly so it can be done, one of them won a champions league with barca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 16 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: The only issue i hace with the BLM movement is when the attention turns to football. Lampard and gerrard are often compared to campbell and cole because of the jobs thet arw in, even the idiot john barnes used that example, thats despite him walking into a high profile job at celtic like gerrard did at rangers. It was refreshing to see lampard say sterling is wrong to compare the four mentioned above. The question has to be asked why there are not any more black coaches??? Is it because of their skin colour? Is it because the black players dont go on to get their badges? If not then why dont they get their badges? Jermaine defoe doesnt think its worth it because he doesnt think he will get a chance if he gets his badges, thats the spirit jermaine, give up before you even start. How many black coaches have applied for jobs and been declined and who were they up against? Its not exactly yesterday but both ruud gullit and frank rijkaard got high profile jobs very quickly so it can be done, one of them won a champions league with barca. Worth adding very few English managers get a chance at a top job as it is, without separating them by race. Gerrard and Lampard always seemed more interested and articulate in that side of the game than Campbell and Cole did. Barnes is never off the TV grafting away, good money to be made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 12 hours ago, exile said: The simplest answer is that "Attacker kills some people" is not news in the way that "Police kill someone" is. There are more unarmed white men killed by police than unarmed black men. Without looking them up... name one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86glebestreet Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said: Worth adding very few English managers get a chance at a top job as it is, without separating them by race. Gerrard and Lampard always seemed more interested and articulate in that side of the game than Campbell and Cole did. Barnes is never off the TV grafting away, good money to be made I don’t know how Barnes has got the time to be on tv with all those porn dvds on his shelf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Tartan_Don said: Thanks, I had a read over it. BLM - you are supporting an injustice in society WLM - you are racist and oppressive Every life matters - you are ignoring the injustice in society and therefore giving preferencal treatment to racism and oppression I am not sure what you are getting at. For a quick clarification, that's not what I, for one, am saying. Try the Tony Livesey link? Edited June 26, 2020 by exile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_Don Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 I listened to the Tony Livesey link Exile, no need for your clarification as I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth and I don't want this to become a two person debate Apart from the statistics he mentions, this stood out.. "Black lives need to matter more than they do now, they need to matter equally as much as white lives. Saying white lives matter is not a campaign stance its stating the bleeding obvious" Surely saying Black lives matter is stating the bleeding obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Is it not just the case that they picked a really shit name for the "movement"? I'm not sure whether that was deliberate or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Is it not just the case that they picked a really shit name for the "movement"? I'm not sure whether that was deliberate or not. I think it's a pretty good name, short, sharp and to the point, does what it says on the tin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tartan_Don said: I listened to the Tony Livesey link Exile, no need for your clarification as I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth and I don't want this to become a two person debate Apart from the statistics he mentions, this stood out.. "Black lives need to matter more than they do now, they need to matter equally as much as white lives. Saying white lives matter is not a campaign stance its stating the bleeding obvious" Surely saying Black lives matter is stating the bleeding obvious If it was stating the bleeding obvious, I doubt there'd be a worldwide movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 12 minutes ago, aaid said: I think it's a pretty good name, short, sharp and to the point, does what it says on the tin. I think my brain must work different to most other peoples. It just seems a wee bit daft to me, that folk are trying to tackle prejudice  based on skin colour by highlighting the colour of folks skin.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, Orraloon said: I think my brain must work different to most other peoples. It just seems a wee bit daft to me, that folk are trying to tackle prejudice  based on skin colour by highlighting the colour of folks skin.  But when that prejudice is rooted in someone's skin colour it would seem odd not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 11 hours ago, Tartan_Don said: So, if you say "Black lives matter" you are supporting an injustice in society? And if you say "White lives matter" you are racist and oppressive?  11 hours ago, aaid said: That's a fair summary This would be comical if you weren't deadly serious. ----------------- It is funny how the most 'progressive' people enact the most regressive ideas... I would highly recommend this interview with Larry Elder. Over a year old but even more relevant today in light of recent events. It is a conversation between two black conservatives as opposed to flabby old white men shouting 'racist' at other white men. Try it.    Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 11 hours ago, Tartan_Don said: Thanks, I had a read over it. BLM - you are supporting an injustice in society WLM - you are racist and oppressive Every life matters - you are ignoring the injustice in society and therefore giving preferencal treatment to racism and oppression It's when used as a retort. Someone says BLM and then someone says ALM as a retort, as opposed to just saying it as a standalone statement apropos of nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Orraloon said: Is it not just the case that they picked a really shit name for the "movement"? I'm not sure whether that was deliberate or not. I agree with this. ‘Black Lives Matter’ as a statement on its own is simple and true, but as a name for a movement that was tackling racism surely they must have realised it would lead to an outcry of ‘ white lives matter ‘ or ‘all lives matter’ . Maybe it was deliberate to draw attention to the subject, but if anything it seems to have created even more division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Orraloon said: I think my brain must work different to most other peoples. It just seems a wee bit daft to me, that folk are trying to tackle prejudice  based on skin colour by highlighting the colour of folks skin.  So the SNP should get rid of Scotland in their name would be a logical conclusion to my understanding of this line of thinking. Edited June 26, 2020 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Just now, TDYER63 said: I agree with this. ‘Black Lives Matter’ as a statement on its own is simple and true, but as a name for a movement that was tackling racism surely they must have realised it would lead to an outcry of ‘ white lives matter ‘ or ‘all lives matter’ . Maybe it was deliberate to draw attention to the subject, but if anything it seems to have created even more division. I think the unspoken "as well" maybe doesn't occur in everyones heads when they hear it. Althugh how pithy/logically consistent the name of the orginisations name isn't a major concern of mine considering the other concerns around the movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviebee Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 On 6/25/2020 at 11:25 AM, scotlad said: I can't think what actual crime has been committed there (although, to be honest, I'm not qualified to say!). Seemingly the boy behind it has lost his job as a consequence of the banner though - as has his girlfriend. Sounds like he won't be getting his Nat King for the foreseeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 20 minutes ago, phart said: So the SNP should get rid of Scotland in their name would be a logical conclusion to my understanding of this line of thinking. Scotland isn't in their name.  I agree that they could have picked a better name when they started the party many decades ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, phart said: I think the unspoken "as well" maybe doesn't occur in everyones heads when they hear it. Althugh how pithy/logically consistent the name of the orginisations name isn't a major concern of mine considering the other concerns around the movement. I think that is the crux of it. And the racists are taking advantage of that. I cant think of a better alternative off the top of my head , ‘Black Lives Matter Too’ is probably clearer , but it isn’t as snappy as BLM , and it sounds a little bit ‘needy’. The name is of no great concern to me either but it does seem to be important to a lot of people, mainly those who are trying to deflect from the underlying cause and stoke division. I just feel they could have perhaps found a name that was a bit less easy to manipulate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Just now, Orraloon said: Scotland isn't in their name.  I agree that they could have picked a better name when they started the party many decades ago. Why's the name of the movement rather than aims your primary motivation for posting in the subject though?We have all this mentalness and your public comments are on the name? It's like watching the Berlin wall come down and someone going on about the colour of the handles on the hammers used, it's just inane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said: I think that is the crux of it. And the racists are taking advantage of that. I cant think of a better alternative off the top of my head , ‘Black Lives Matter Too’ is probably clearer , but it isn’t as snappy as BLM , and it sounds a little bit ‘needy’. The name is of no great concern to me either but it does seem to be important to a lot of people, mainly those who are trying to deflect from the underlying cause and stoke division. I just feel they could have perhaps found a name that was a bit less easy to manipulate. Trying to excuse proof a name for folk holding irrational views might prove impossible though. Have you an example of what could have been used?  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 11 minutes ago, phart said: Trying to excuse proof a name for folk holding irrational views might prove impossible though. Have you an example of what could have been used?  No, like I said, I really cannot offer a better alternative, but I am not exactly a great visionary or political advisor.  And yes, people who hold irrational views will always find a way to twist things, if it wasn't the name it would be something else. But the name of a movement in a sensitive and high profile  subject such as this I think needs to be solid and not open to misinterpretation.  Between all the violence , and irrational folk twisting things,  balanced people are now starting to think ‘ well, white lives matter too not just black lives’. For me, the words that make up the name is fairly irrelevant, its how those words are spun that is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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