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Who invented football, Scotland or England?


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I was recently reading a book by Jonathan Wilson in which he mentioned that although the game its self was probably started in England, the game as we know it today was invented up here i.e the invention of the passing game as opposed to the primitive game the English were playing.

Having read a wee bit further there does seem to be some debate as to the exact origins and seems to be a school of thought that the game started up here, anyone got anything that could shed any further light?

In addition, I read a book about Seville and Real Betis recently and the number of Scottish folk that started and were involved in setting up a number of Spanish clubs is phenomenal, why don't we make more of that? Or do we and have I missed it?

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I’ve read a fair bit on this over the years & I don’t think you can really say either of us invented it as such. The game evolved in various ways, & those developments came from all over. In terms of unifying rules & creating a structure, then you probably are looking at English public schools, but that wasn’t about inventing the game but rather codifying it in a way that they could compete with each other.

Professionalisation & the first key technical developments in the game almost certainly originated in Scotland. At least, Fergus Suter was the first known & semi-legitimate professional. The passing game you mention almost certainly originated in Scotland.

The whole notion of professional sport is linked into lots of other sociological/social history developments at the time. 

In terms of league competitions, these were started in England, but by a Scot. So, much like the first international game, perhaps best to call it a draw!

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There’s a sign up in pittodrie that says something about the first recorded passing rules or something like that was from up here. I’ll try and dig it out, I’ve a photo somewhere. Doesn’t prove anything though 😂

Edited by dandydunn
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4 hours ago, Tartan_McCole said:

Not Scottish, but I'm sure AC Milan were founded by a couple of English geezers.

That's true. Hence the St George Cross still seen on the AC Milan badge to this day. 

 

Seemingly, a Scot who had played for Southampton introduced football to Brazil.

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IIRC on an early version of the TAMB, there was a poster called Sonny who had done a lot of research. He found Callander had a significant part to play in where football was 1st played. There was some good reading back in the early days of the TAMB, before it became a watered down club forum.

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On 5/28/2020 at 11:02 AM, Huddersfield said:

I’ve read a fair bit on this over the years & I don’t think you can really say either of us invented it as such. The game evolved in various ways, & those developments came from all over. In terms of unifying rules & creating a structure, then you probably are looking at English public schools, but that wasn’t about inventing the game but rather codifying it in a way that they could compete with each other.

Professionalisation & the first key technical developments in the game almost certainly originated in Scotland. At least, Fergus Suter was the first known & semi-legitimate professional. The passing game you mention almost certainly originated in Scotland.

The whole notion of professional sport is linked into lots of other sociological/social history developments at the time. 

In terms of league competitions, these were started in England, but by a Scot. So, much like the first international game, perhaps best to call it a draw!

I think you're probably right. It's interesting though that England make much more of it than we do and quite right as well.

I found out today for example that the Scottish guy who founded Sevilla is buried in Cathcart Cemetery which is 10 mins from me. 

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8 minutes ago, Mox said:

I think you're probably right. It's interesting though that England make much more of it than we do and quite right as well.

I found out today for example that the Scottish guy who founded Sevilla is buried in Cathcart Cemetery which is 10 mins from me. 

Willie Maley and Stan Laurel's mother are also buried in there.

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Interesting watching Scotland v Sweden from 1990 tonight. Archie McPherson talking about how Scots had introduced the sport to the Swedes, and suggesting the match was "master v pupil".  Even in the late 20th century there was still that attitude that this was our game.

 

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5 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Interesting watching Scotland v Sweden from 1990 tonight. Archie McPherson talking about how Scots had introduced the sport to the Swedes, and suggesting the match was "master v pupil".  Even in the late 20th century there was still that attitude that this was our game.

 

I found it a hard watch due to his now known about unionism. But maybe that’s just me!

Also can’t understand reason why McStay didn’t get more caps. So assured and good at keeping possession when he came on. Looked like a proper footballer. Didn’t appreciate him so much when I was younger (I wasn’t even that young). But he was kinda like Barry Ferguson but with more forward impetus. Anyway, he wasn’t on for long in this game but it sparked a memory. Maestro indeed.

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2 hours ago, duncan II said:

I found it a hard watch due to his now known about unionism. But maybe that’s just me!

Also can’t understand reason why McStay didn’t get more caps. So assured and good at keeping possession when he came on. Looked like a proper footballer. Didn’t appreciate him so much when I was younger (I wasn’t even that young). But he was kinda like Barry Ferguson but with more forward impetus. Anyway, he wasn’t on for long in this game but it sparked a memory. Maestro indeed.

Only the fifth most capped player ever. 

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10 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Only the fifth most capped player ever. 

Fair enough. Never realised that. What I should have said, surprised he never played a more prominent role. I remember a cracking goal v Iceland. 

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3 hours ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Aye, strange question from Duncan.  McStay was a great player. My best experience ever at a Scotland game that day.  Genoa.

Fantastic player, really should have gone to play in Serie A when he had the chance. He must regret that now.

 

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