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Best Uncapped Scottish Players


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58 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Brewster's team mate when he was capped, albeit several years younger.

Watched them together against a Western Isles Select. Brewster was brilliant at least two classes higher than any one else on the pitch, Crawford would have struggled to get a game for my mob.

Edited by ceudmilefailte
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22 minutes ago, aaid said:

That's easy to say with the benefit of hindsight but I don't recall any clamour to call him up when he was playing for a struggling Oxford United team.

Which player would you have left out of the 86 World Cup squad to accommodate him?

 

He only came to prominence post 86 aaid, so wouldn't have made the 86 squad. That squad was already written in stone anyway due to the turmoil after Big Jock's death.

Who would he have replaced in squads thereafter? Brian McClair.

And yes, I understand that it is easy to be wise 35 years on, but really if Ireland managed to identify him then why didn't we?

Same situation, same era was Tommy Coyne, but with Johnston, McCoist and McInally as competition he was never going to be a pick. Hell, Eric Black couldn't break through in the late 80s so what chance did Coyne have? 

Missing out on Ray Houghton was criminal though.

Edited by Barney Rubble
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6 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

He only came to prominence post 86 aaid, so wouldn't have made the 86 squad. That squad was already written in stone anyway due to the turmoil after Big Jock's death.

He was already an Ireland player by the time Mexico 86 came around.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

He only came to prominence post 86 aaid, so wouldn't have made the 86 squad. That squad was already written in stone anyway due to the turmoil after Big Jock's death.

Who would he have replaced in squads thereafter? Brian McClair.

And yes, I understand that it is easy to be wise 35 years on, but really if Ireland managed to identify him then why didn't we?

Same situation, same era was Tommy Coyne, but with Johnston, McCoist and McInally as competition he was never going to be a pick. Hell, Eric Black couldn't break through in the late 80s so what chance did Coyne have? 

Missing out on Ray Houghton was criminal though.

That's the whole point with Houghton, he came to prominence after he'd pored for the ROI, he played his first international for them in March 1986.  If we'd had made an attempt to cap him first, it would've been at the expense of someone else at that point.  So would you have left out Souness, Strachan, McStay or Bett to accommodate him?

Eric Black was crocked by the time he went to Metz.

Edited by aaid
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2 minutes ago, aaid said:

That's the whole point with Houghton, he came to prominence after he'd pored for the ROI, he played his first international for them in March 1986.  If we'd had made an attempt to cap him first, it would've been at the expense of someone else at that point.  So would you have left out Souness, Strachan, McStay or Bett to accommodate him?

Apologies aaid, hadn't realised he had been identified by the Irish pre-86 World Cup.

To address your question, I wouldn't have left any of the players you mention out - he wouldn't have made the 86 WC squad for me irrespective of if we had identified him.

What grinds my gears is that we didn't identify him, as he demonstrably proved he was more productive until beyond WC 1994 than any of the four you mention plus Aitken and McClair.

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46 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Apologies aaid, hadn't realised he had been identified by the Irish pre-86 World Cup.

To address your question, I wouldn't have left any of the players you mention out - he wouldn't have made the 86 WC squad for me irrespective of if we had identified him.

What grinds my gears is that we didn't identify him, as he demonstrably proved he was more productive until beyond WC 1994 than any of the four you mention plus Aitken and McClair.

Houghton really was a great example of a late developer and I think it's only when he joined Liverpool - which  I seem to recall was considered a bit of a surprise move at the time - that he really took off, possibly he became a better player by playing alongside better players.

You have to also remember that his age group got to the quarter finals of the U20 World Cup in Mexico in 1983, so we weren't exactly short on talent, so it's no real surprise that he didn't get enywhere close to our U21s when you had guys like Paul McStay and Neale Cooper who were playing regularly for their clubs in the SPL.

We could have undoubtedly have done with him from 1990 onwards and he's the only player we've "lost" to the ROI that I think would've made a real difference to us but I wouldn't criticise anyone for not picking him up at an early age.

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3 hours ago, aaid said:

 he's the only player we've "lost" to the ROI that I think would've made a real difference to us 

I think with McGeady in the team we might have qualified for Euro 2008. He was sensational around that time. His career petered out a bit afterwards though. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Toepoke said:

I think with McGeady in the team we might have qualified for Euro 2008. He was sensational around that time. His career petered out a bit afterwards though. 

 

 

I get where you're coming from but I'm not so sure, while I'm not saying we had anyone better in his position at the time, I'm not sure he'd have made the difference.  I don't think his career for the ROI was exactly stellar, any of their fans I've spoken to seem to be if the opinion that he flattered to deceive and never really delivered when it mattered.  I know he wasn't an out and out goalscorer but 5 goals in 93 internationals tells its own story.  For me, he got found out when he left Celtic.

Different type of players but I'd put McCarthy in the same btacket, I don't think he'd have made a big enough difference.

 

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15 minutes ago, aaid said:

I get where you're coming from but I'm not so sure, while I'm not saying we had anyone better in his position at the time, I'm not sure he'd have made the difference.  I don't think his career for the ROI was exactly stellar, any of their fans I've spoken to seem to be if the opinion that he flattered to deceive and never really delivered when it mattered.  I know he wasn't an out and out goalscorer but 5 goals in 93 internationals tells its own story.  For me, he got found out when he left Celtic.

Different type of players but I'd put McCarthy in the same btacket, I don't think he'd have made a big enough difference.

 

Agreed. 

Had to check but even his stats for Celtic are pretty average 

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5 hours ago, aaid said:

I get where you're coming from but I'm not so sure, while I'm not saying we had anyone better in his position at the time, I'm not sure he'd have made the difference.  I don't think his career for the ROI was exactly stellar, any of their fans I've spoken to seem to be if the opinion that he flattered to deceive and never really delivered when it mattered.  I know he wasn't an out and out goalscorer but 5 goals in 93 internationals tells its own story.  For me, he got found out when he left Celtic.

Different type of players but I'd put McCarthy in the same btacket, I don't think he'd have made a big enough difference.

 

Agree with that, and McCarthy too. 

He did have a good spell, but on the grander scheme of things I don't think he would have made that much of a difference in regards qualifying. Didn't he start backtracking and saying he picked Ireland because they qualified for things - and you could argue he was right - went to two tournaments (or one at least) - whilst we all know what we've done.

I'm sure I heard Danny Kelly do a long interview with Houghton - think his Dad is from Donegal - and talked about international career. I may be over egging this, but I'm sure Roxburgh invited him to a training camp or something and he thought it was cliquey and didn't like the set up. 

 

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1 hour ago, weekevie04 said:

Agree with that, and McCarthy too. 

He did have a good spell, but on the grander scheme of things I don't think he would have made that much of a difference in regards qualifying. Didn't he start backtracking and saying he picked Ireland because they qualified for things - and you could argue he was right - went to two tournaments (or one at least) - whilst we all know what we've done.

I'm sure I heard Danny Kelly do a long interview with Houghton - think his Dad is from Donegal - and talked about international career. I may be over egging this, but I'm sure Roxburgh invited him to a training camp or something and he thought it was cliquey and didn't like the set up. 

 

If that's true then it would've been in a youth setup since Roxburgh took over as 'A' team manager after Mexico, at which point Houghton was already capped by the ROI.   

All sounds a bit too convenient and sounds like it's a justification after the fact.   I suppose the key would really be whether or not he was asked back. The ROI didn't come in for him until he was 23-24 when Charlton took over as manager and they then really went down the grandparent rule for players - although Houghton was more straightforwards as his father was  from Donegal.

One of the things that surprised me was that although he was born in Glasgow and still has a noticeable accent to this day, his family moved to London when he was 10.  Apparently he was very friendly with the actor Phil Daniels growing up.   I wonder just how bothered he really was about playing for us.

That said, he was sitting behind me on the flight on the way back from Dublin the last time we played out there and had a brief chat with him.  He mentioned in passing that his brothers were big Scotland fans - I resisted the temptation to ask if they call him a judas bastard.  Very friendly guy actually, was scathing about Martin O'Neill. 

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40 minutes ago, aaid said:

If that's true then it would've been in a youth setup since Roxburgh took over as 'A' team manager after Mexico, at which point Houghton was already capped by the ROI.   

All sounds a bit too convenient and sounds like it's a justification after the fact.   I suppose the key would really be whether or not he was asked back. The ROI didn't come in for him until he was 23-24 when Charlton took over as manager and they then really went down the grandparent rule for players - although Houghton was more straightforwards as his father was  from Donegal.

One of the things that surprised me was that although he was born in Glasgow and still has a noticeable accent to this day, his family moved to London when he was 10.  Apparently he was very friendly with the actor Phil Daniels growing up.   I wonder just how bothered he really was about playing for us.

That said, he was sitting behind me on the flight on the way back from Dublin the last time we played out there and had a brief chat with him.  He mentioned in passing that his brothers were big Scotland fans - I resisted the temptation to ask if they call him a judas bastard.  Very friendly guy actually, was scathing about Martin O'Neill. 

I didn't realise he moved so young and like you said, I'm amazed he still has as Glaswegian-diluated accent as he does. That's maybe another thread, but amazing how some people's accent will change or stay the same. I've got relatives in Canada - some been there 30-40 years and half of them sound a bit mixed, the other half sound like Houghton - mostly Scottish but Canadian words - you wonder if some folk make a point of keeping their accent, anyhoos I'm havering on...

I found this, doing a wee google - similarish to what he said to Danny Kelly about Roxburgh being cliquey 

 

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29 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

I didn't realise he moved so young and like you said, I'm amazed he still has as Glaswegian-diluated accent as he does. That's maybe another thread, but amazing how some people's accent will change or stay the same. I've got relatives in Canada - some been there 30-40 years and half of them sound a bit mixed, the other half sound like Houghton - mostly Scottish but Canadian words - you wonder if some folk make a point of keeping their accent, anyhoos I'm havering on...

I found this, doing a wee google - similarish to what he said to Danny Kelly about Roxburgh being cliquey 

 

Interesting stuff.   When you hear stories like that you realise just how hit and miss it is for players to be picked up.

When Alan Shearer was a youngster he went for a trial for Newcastle and apparently they put him in goals.   He then went to Southampton as an apprentice and then Newcastle had to pay £15 million - which was then a world record fee - to get him back.

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On 4/4/2020 at 9:12 AM, Jersey Jim said:

Ian Scanlon, great player for Aberdeen and St Mirren, came to Saints in a swap deal with Peter Weir going to Dons, both great players and very similar,  but Scanlon scored Treble the amount of goals for saints than Weir did in similar appearances. 

Including the best goal I ever saw at Love Street, 2-0 down to Celtic, came back to win 4-2 with Scanlon scoring the 4th with a sweet volley over 40 yards out ( not exaggerating), totally gutted there is no footage of that goal in existence.

used to have a football card for Scanlon as a kid - always the one i remembered 

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  • 7 months later...

Anyone mentioned Ralph Milne yet? Alistair Dick was another one but injury really finished his career before it got going. Ken McNaught who played for Villa in the 80s was very underrated but we had so many good centre halves back then. Frank McDougall would also be worth a shout but we had a better choice of forwards back then as well.

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Off the top of my head, the best uncapped Scottish player I can remember seeing play by a country mile was Tom Cowan...he was a major player for us for several years & his pumped-up clenched fist salute whenever we won was the stuff of legend.

He nearly always comes out in the top 20 of all-time greats whenever there's a poll of any description.

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