ceudmilefailte Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Just now, dohadeer said: I don’t understand? Just found the final nations league group tables Slovenia were bottom of theirs. Why Israel though have got what should be the easiest route to the finals rather than Hungary who fished behind Finland is the problem I have. Hungary have to play a team from a higher pot in the nations league which should make it harder than playing teams of their own level. Just so happened they were unlucky and got the best team in the nations league in their group and they are getting penalised for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohadeer Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Just found the final nations league group tables Slovenia were bottom of theirs. Why Israel though have got what should be the easiest route to the finals rather than Hungary who fished behind Finland is the problem I have. Hungary have to play a team from a higher pot in the nations league which should make it harder than playing teams of their own level. Just so happened they were unlucky and got the best team in the nations league in their group and they are getting penalised for it. The best team in the Nations League? One of the four runners-up from League C were required to remain in the League C path, so it was done by a random draw. That doesn’t seem a problem to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Just now, dohadeer said: The best team in the Nations League? One of the four runners-up from League C were required to remain in the League C path, so it was done by a random draw. That doesn’t seem a problem to me. Didn't know it was a random draw. It should have gone to to Hungary for finishing second to Finland though. Hungary had the hardest Nations League group and have now, in theory got the hardest play off route. Through qualifying via the traditional route Finland by default should be regarded as the best team in our pot in the last nations league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohadeer Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 15 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Didn't know it was a random draw. It should have gone to to Hungary for finishing second to Finland though. Hungary had the hardest Nations League group and have now, in theory got the hardest play off route. Through qualifying via the traditional route Finland by default should be regarded as the best team in our pot in the last nations league. You can’t go back and retrospectively decide that though. Finland qualified a year after the Nations League. They may have got lucky with their qualification draw. Hungary were in fact themselves the top seeds in all of League C, at the time of the Nations League draw. So whoever drew Hungary had the hardest draw - not the other way round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Didn't know it was a random draw. It should have gone to to Hungary for finishing second to Finland though. Hungary had the hardest Nations League group and have now, in theory got the hardest play off route. Through qualifying via the traditional route Finland by default should be regarded as the best team in our pot in the last nations league. How are you judging who had the hardest or easiest group? Is it just your opinion? It could be argued that Finland had the easiest qualifying group? I would say that having Russia and Belgium was harder than having Italy and Greece. But that's just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 7 hours ago, aaid said: I suppose we did have a 100% record there in the 90s. I was going to say I'd mixed feelings about that game but in reality I don't. It was just yet another failure. Any joy I had at beating England had gone before I left the stadium that night as while we may have won the match, they went through. Edit. Just realised I'd blocked Euro 96 out of my mind completely. So you're talking pish about us having a good records there in the 90s. I'm hardly talking pish. The original statement was along the lines of "giving a good account of ourselves at Wembley". I would say a 50% win rate and being a bit unlucky in the game we lost as giving a good account of ourselves. Wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 hours ago, dohadeer said: No, you couldn’t. Actually, you could. That's pretty much what UEFA are unofficially proposing if they go to a 32 team finals (which they appear keen to do at some point in the near future). I can't remember the exact details but I did read an article where a UEFA suit stated that if the European Championships was extended to 32 teams they would need to do away with qualifiers and just use the Nations League and/or world rankings to decide who qualified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Hungary finished 2nd to Finland and they got a playoff spot. If only it were that simple. Essentially, all the League A teams - with the exception of Iceland - qualified for the finals through the traditional method of winning or finishing runner up in their qualifying group. That shouldn't really be a surprise as they are supposedly the 12 best teams in Europe. In League B, 8 of the 12 teams qualified which left four teams for a play off, luckily the number they need. In League C - our league - only Finland qualified by right and so there was an additional space in our play-off group. In League D, no one qualified so the four group winners will be in the play offs. That overall picture shouldn't surprise anyone as the only real deviation from seedings is that Iceland (League A) failed to qualify and Finland (League C) did. Quite why UEFA didn't just shuffle everyone up, so Iceland ended up playing the three best League B teams as would seem to make sense from a sporting perspective is beyond me but that's the least ridiculous thing here. So anyway, the three other second placed teams from our league go into that play off group instead. So by my reckoning, Israel have had the following opportunities to qualify for Euro2020. 1. Winning the Nations League group and getting into a play off. 2. Winning their Euro 2020 qualifying group 3. Finishing second in their group 4. Getting into the play-offs by virtue of other teams in other leagues qualifying by right. So 7 teams in League C are in the playoffs. Try and explain that in terms of a sporting contest. Anyone still think this competition isn't a total shitshow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 22 minutes ago, Orraloon said: How are you judging who had the hardest or easiest group? Is it just your opinion? It could be argued that Finland had the easiest qualifying group? I would say that having Russia and Belgium was harder than having Italy and Greece. But that's just my opinion. I'm not arguing who had the easiest group as in theory all groups are equal before the games start. My argument is what should have happened after the normal route was finished and names in a hat was not the right way. It seems pretty obvious that the team that finished secondt o an automatic qualifier should have taken their place in the play offs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Texas Pete said: I'm hardly talking pish. The original statement was along the lines of "giving a good account of ourselves at Wembley". I would say a 50% win rate and being a bit unlucky in the game we lost as giving a good account of ourselves. Wouldn't you? It's as good as two losses as far as I'm concerned. Couldn't give a shit about whether we gave a good account of ourselves or whether we were unlucky or not. No prizes for being a plucky loser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 31 minutes ago, Orraloon said: How are you judging who had the hardest or easiest group? Is it just your opinion? It could be argued that Finland had the easiest qualifying group? I would say that having Russia and Belgium was harder than having Italy and Greece. But that's just my opinion. I suspect he means hardest Nations League group rather than Euro 2020 group. Still 7 of the 16 teams in League C are in the play offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 42 minutes ago, aaid said: Still 7 of the 16 teams in League C are in the play offs. Of course there are. It's pretty simple really. 20 teams qualify directly leaving 4 spaces to be filled. On this occasion UEFA decided that they wanted 4 teams to contest for each playoff place. It only looks complicated to folk who can't be bothered to check out what the format is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, aaid said: I suspect he means hardest Nations League group rather than Euro 2020 group. I know that. But his reason for saying that Hungary had the hardest Nations League group is that Finland qualified directly. But that doesn't take into account that Finland might have qualified directly because they had the easiest qualifying group. My point being that you can't measure which is easiest or hardest. You just have to apply the criteria that was set out at the start of the competition. I do have a wee issue with the random draw for the 4 League C teams, as I am convinced that they changed that rule part way through. I was convinced that we were going to get Bulgaria, because I'm sure the rule when the competition started, was that the places would be allocated based on Nations League rankings. Having said that, I'm happy to get Israel instead of Bulgaria as I think Bulgaria are not as bad as their recent results might suggest. Edited March 5, 2020 by Orraloon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, aaid said: I suspect he means hardest Nations League group rather than Euro 2020 group. Still 7 of the 16 teams in League C are in the play offs. And, oh aye almost forgot, there were only 15 teams in League C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Orraloon said: And, oh aye almost forgot, there were only 15 teams in League C. So even more ridiculous. When the Nations League was launched, one of the supposed benefits was that you'd get a second chance of qualifying, not a third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, aaid said: So even more ridiculous. When the Nations League was launched, one of the supposed benefits was that you'd get a second chance of qualifying, not a third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh chance. Thems the rules. I'm starting to think you just don't like Israel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Orraloon said: Thems the rules. I'm starting to think you just don't like Israel? Just because those are the rules doesn't mean the rules aren't bollocks. I've nothing against Israel the football team but they seem to be the least deserving nation to benefit from this shitshow. In general I'm not a fan of rewarding failure and giving out second chances in football. Really can't stand Champions League teams dropping into the Europa League after they've been knocked out. Don't like the playoff system in Scotland fir the same reason i couldn't care if it benefits us or not, I think it's fundamentally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, aaid said: It's as good as two losses as far as I'm concerned. Couldn't give a shit about whether we gave a good account of ourselves or whether we were unlucky or not. No prizes for being a plucky loser. Cool story but that’s not really relevant to what I said. You can still give a good account of yourself (which is what the original post stated) and lose, particularly against a team that is better than we are. Edited March 5, 2020 by Texas Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stockholm 1980 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 You could argue that Bulgaria have been fortunate. Runners up to Norway then abysmal in the main qualifiers, they’ve ended up in the league A play off with a home match v Hungary, then potential another home match against Iceland or Romania. Given league A inherited 3 teams from league C I’d have argued that Iceland were entitled to be at home in the Semi and Final if they won their Semi, they shouldn’t have to play an away tie to any lower league country at this stage. BTW I don’t see Bulgaria qualifying but stranger things have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 14 hours ago, Stockholm 1980 said: You could argue that Bulgaria have been fortunate. Runners up to Norway then abysmal in the main qualifiers, they’ve ended up in the league A play off with a home match v Hungary, then potential another home match against Iceland or Romania. Given league A inherited 3 teams from league C I’d have argued that Iceland were entitled to be at home in the Semi and Final if they won their Semi, they shouldn’t have to play an away tie to any lower league country at this stage. BTW I don’t see Bulgaria qualifying but stranger things have happened. I'm going for Romania to beat Bulgaria in that final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, Stockholm 1980 said: You could argue that Bulgaria have been fortunate. Runners up to Norway then abysmal in the main qualifiers, they’ve ended up in the league A play off with a home match v Hungary, then potential another home match against Iceland or Romania. Given league A inherited 3 teams from league C I’d have argued that Iceland were entitled to be at home in the Semi and Final if they won their Semi, they shouldn’t have to play an away tie to any lower league country at this stage. BTW I don’t see Bulgaria qualifying but stranger things have happened. I don't think there should have been a draw at all. It should have been all done on the final tables - League A - Iceland/Romania v Israel/Hungary League B - Bosnia and Herzegovina/Northern Ireland v Slovakia/Rep of Ireland League C - Scotland/Bulgaria v Norway/Serbia League D - Georgia/Belarus v N. Macedonia/Kosovo I predict that Iceland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Norway and Georgia will all qualify but would back us over Norway if we'd been at home for both matches. Edited March 6, 2020 by PASTA Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 16 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said: I don't think there should have been a draw at all. It should have been all done on the final tables - League A - Iceland/Romania v Israel/Hungary League B - Bosnia and Herzegovina/Northern Ireland v Slovakia/Rep of Ireland League C - Scotland/Bulgaria v Norway/Serbia League D - Georgia/Belarus v N. Macedonia/Kosovo I predict that Iceland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Norway and Georgia will all qualify but would back us over Norway if we'd been at home for both matches. That's exactly the way I thought I was going to be done with the addition of home advantage to the teams with the best qualification record Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 3 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said: That's exactly the way I thought I was going to be done with the addition of home advantage to the teams with the best qualification record I thought that as well and I'm convinced that they changed that rule half way through the competition. I can't find the evidence to back that up but I am believing my own memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan cake Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) Wonder what part of Slovakia and Israel we’ll get punted to this time? noticed Bratislava has a shiny new stadium and hopefully the Israelis will save us a trip up to Haifa again Edited March 7, 2020 by dan cake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintsparky Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 1 hour ago, dan cake said: Wonder what part of Slovakia and Israel we’ll get punted to this time? noticed Bratislava has a shiny new stadium and hopefully the Israelis will save us a trip up to Haifa again New stadium in Tel Aviv also finished now. 29,000 seats, and walking distance from the beach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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