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csinclair

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15 hours ago, dohadeer said:

I find it really difficult to judge Celtic players, (or Old Firm players, but Rangers have hardly any Scottish players) compared to English Premiership players. It’s a totally different thing winning for Celtic every week, than it is in the cut-throat world of the non-big six English Premiership teams. For me, I’d play Armstrong, Fleck, Fraser, McGinn, and McTominay, but I find it hard to judge where Christie and McGregor are standard-wise compared to those five. A quick check now, suggests that Oliver Burke is getting game time in LaLiga, which is impressive as well, so he’d be an eighth contender for a midfield spot, who I’d pick ahead of Forrest.

In terms of wide midfield, I’d go with two from Armstrong, Burke, and Fraser, all ahead of James Forrest. (I think that Armstrong plays wide midfield for Southampton, but I may be incorrect, and he may be more central.)

I’ve seen too many anonymous games from Forrest, where he’s barely touched the ball, to merit inclusion in a big game. Perhaps include him for Israel at home - although I’d rather he was an option off the bench - but certainly not away to Norway or Serbia. I think that Armstrong and Fraser offer much more of what we need in that type of game, they don’t have the tendency to fade to anonymity as Forrest does.
 

I think that I have something against small midfielders, who play on the wing, (Theo Walcott and Aaron Lennon are recent examples that spring to mind) as I think that it is very easy for them to have anonymous games if the match is not the type of match that suits their abilities. Away to Norway or Serbia, if we get that far, and possibly at home to Israel, we are going to need more of the skills that Armstrong and Fraser can offer, rather than what James Forrest offers.

As soon as I saw you mention Oli Burke (who couldn't get near the Celtic side for the most of the time he was there) then your argument losing a lot of weight.

You go on about Forrest being anonymous yet have stated that McBurnie and Burke should be getting a game in this thread, They define anonymous in a Scotland shirt.

You also state you can't judge Forrest based on playing in Scotland which is bizarre given his stats in Europe which you either choose to ignore or just don't know what you are on about.

This season:

CL Qualifying

Scored home and away vs Cluj

Scored home and away vs AIK

Europa League

Scored away vs Lazio

Add that to the FIVE goals he scored in 4 qualifying games for Scotland to get to these play offs, then I'd say he has more than merited his place ahead of the likes of shite like Burke.

This season he has played 24 games for Celtic, 10 goals and 12 assists.

Oli Burke has played 18 games, 1 goal and 1 assist!

Ryan Fraser 25 games, 1 goal and 3 assists.

Even taking into account standards of the leagues, there is zero argument IMO based on club or country form for either of those two to get a nod a head of Forrest.

I'm all for player bashing but the examples of players you'd play ahead of him are just daft IMO.

Every manager he has played under has played him for both club and country but some folk on TAMB don't rate him as he never turns up, despite being the main reason we're actually in the play offs!

You literally couldn't make it up!

Seems to me he's an easy target whilst some big name players from down south continually play worse in a Scotland shirt. Suppose that's the nature of the beast being a winger but the argument that we have an abundance of talent better in his position is just not true.

 

 

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16 hours ago, dohadeer said:

I find it really difficult to judge Celtic players, (or Old Firm players, but Rangers have hardly any Scottish players) compared to English Premiership players. It’s a totally different thing winning for Celtic every week, than it is in the cut-throat world of the non-big six English Premiership teams. For me, I’d play Armstrong, Fleck, Fraser, McGinn, and McTominay, but I find it hard to judge where Christie and McGregor are standard-wise compared to those five. A quick check now, suggests that Oliver Burke is getting game time in LaLiga, which is impressive as well, so he’d be an eighth contender for a midfield spot, who I’d pick ahead of Forrest.

In terms of wide midfield, I’d go with two from Armstrong, Burke, and Fraser, all ahead of James Forrest. (I think that Armstrong plays wide midfield for Southampton, but I may be incorrect, and he may be more central.)

I’ve seen too many anonymous games from Forrest, where he’s barely touched the ball, to merit inclusion in a big game. Perhaps include him for Israel at home - although I’d rather he was an option off the bench - but certainly not away to Norway or Serbia. I think that Armstrong and Fraser offer much more of what we need in that type of game, they don’t have the tendency to fade to anonymity as Forrest does.
 

I think that I have something against small midfielders, who play on the wing, (Theo Walcott and Aaron Lennon are recent examples that spring to mind) as I think that it is very easy for them to have anonymous games if the match is not the type of match that suits their abilities. Away to Norway or Serbia, if we get that far, and possibly at home to Israel, we are going to need more of the skills that Armstrong and Fraser can offer, rather than what James Forrest offers.

I won’t get in to the other stuff as I find it absolutely laughable. But you go on and contradict yourself again giving you have something agaisnt small wingers ..
 

Ryan Fraser is 5ft 4 mate.. 

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21 hours ago, dohadeer said:

I agree that he’s usually a passenger. A luxury player that Celtic can get away with playing, but Scotland can’t.

Yup agree 

20 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Sounds like Robertson (and just about every other player) for Scotland.

Nonsense

20 hours ago, stocky said:

If it wasnt fpr his (5 ? ) Goals we wouldnt be having a play off semi final  game next month...

Can accept that but until and after then he has been pish, and im sure someone else would have scored the goals in those games if he wasnt there. He is found out far too often for scotland and we cant afford passengers. And he has nae neck

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Forrest when it comes to Scotland I think all depends on who he has playing behind him at right back.

He seems to link up well with Patterson and of late with Palmer, which has probably seen some of his best performances of late (just not on the level of Albania and Israel a while back), but when you stick someone like O'Donnell behind him, it seems just throw his whole game out the window.

Prime example I found was Cyprus at Hampden last year, down the left hand side you had the triangle of Robertson, McGregor and Fraser running rings around Cyprus, but down the right, felt like Forrest would get the ball and expect SoD to over lap him, look up and find that SoD had not even crossed the half way line. 

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How is that nonsense Kirk?

Does Robertson bring his club form into international games? I think we all know the answer to that. He's been poor for Scotland. Up until the last few games, McGinn has been guilty of that too.

You can't slag one player for seemingly not bringing their club form when our captain is one of the most guilty.

I'll suggest you have made your mind up about Forrest many years ago and have no intention of changing it.

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1 hour ago, ElChris04 said:

I won’t get in to the other stuff as I find it absolutely laughable. But you go on and contradict yourself again giving you have something agaisnt small wingers ..
 

Ryan Fraser is 5ft 4 mate.. 

I did think that as I was writing it, but I don’t see Ryan Fraser as being the type to have an anonymous game. He’s a completely different type of player to Forrest, I don’t really think of Ryan Fraser as a winger, the type that’s going to run at players and beat them like Forrest. Fraser’s game is more about linking up with other players from midfield, creating stuff that way.

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3 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

As soon as I saw you mention Oli Burke (who couldn't get near the Celtic side for the most of the time he was there) then your argument losing a lot of weight.

You go on about Forrest being anonymous yet have stated that McBurnie and Burke should be getting a game in this thread, They define anonymous in a Scotland shirt.

You also state you can't judge Forrest based on playing in Scotland which is bizarre given his stats in Europe which you either choose to ignore or just don't know what you are on about.

This season:

CL Qualifying

Scored home and away vs Cluj

Scored home and away vs AIK

Europa League

Scored away vs Lazio

Add that to the FIVE goals he scored in 4 qualifying games for Scotland to get to these play offs, then I'd say he has more than merited his place ahead of the likes of shite like Burke.

This season he has played 24 games for Celtic, 10 goals and 12 assists.

Oli Burke has played 18 games, 1 goal and 1 assist!

Ryan Fraser 25 games, 1 goal and 3 assists.

Even taking into account standards of the leagues, there is zero argument IMO based on club or country form for either of those two to get a nod a head of Forrest.

I'm all for player bashing but the examples of players you'd play ahead of him are just daft IMO.

Every manager he has played under has played him for both club and country but some folk on TAMB don't rate him as he never turns up, despite being the main reason we're actually in the play offs!

You literally couldn't make it up!

Seems to me he's an easy target whilst some big name players from down south continually play worse in a Scotland shirt. Suppose that's the nature of the beast being a winger but the argument that we have an abundance of talent better in his position is just not true.

 

 

The way that people speak about some of our Scotland players beggars belief to me.

’Shite like Burke.’ How is that any way to speak about one of our players? And how can it possibly be true, when he’s currently playing his football in LaLiga? 

 

Anyway, I appreciate that Forrest has goals and assists in him, BUT in some types of game, he is a luxury player that we can’t afford, who will go missing. I would prefer to have Armstrong and Fraser-type players, who I think would help win the midfield battle. I wouldn’t feel comfortable going to Norway or Serbia with Forrest in the team, ahead of the likes of Armstrong and Fraser. Clearly there are different types of players needed for different games, and while Forrest is an option who has done well against lower-ranked teams, as he does for Celtic, I don’t think his game serves us well away from home against a decent team like Norway or Serbia. Those type of games need much more throughout the 90 minutes from a player than the potential of a goal or an assist.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

As soon as I saw you mention Oli Burke (who couldn't get near the Celtic side for the most of the time he was there) then your argument losing a lot of weight.

You go on about Forrest being anonymous yet have stated that McBurnie and Burke should be getting a game in this thread, They define anonymous in a Scotland shirt.

You also state you can't judge Forrest based on playing in Scotland which is bizarre given his stats in Europe which you either choose to ignore or just don't know what you are on about.

This season:

CL Qualifying

Scored home and away vs Cluj

Scored home and away vs AIK

Europa League

Scored away vs Lazio

Add that to the FIVE goals he scored in 4 qualifying games for Scotland to get to these play offs, then I'd say he has more than merited his place ahead of the likes of shite like Burke.

This season he has played 24 games for Celtic, 10 goals and 12 assists.

Oli Burke has played 18 games, 1 goal and 1 assist!

Ryan Fraser 25 games, 1 goal and 3 assists.

Even taking into account standards of the leagues, there is zero argument IMO based on club or country form for either of those two to get a nod a head of Forrest.

I'm all for player bashing but the examples of players you'd play ahead of him are just daft IMO.

Every manager he has played under has played him for both club and country but some folk on TAMB don't rate him as he never turns up, despite being the main reason we're actually in the play offs!

You literally couldn't make it up!

Seems to me he's an easy target whilst some big name players from down south continually play worse in a Scotland shirt. Suppose that's the nature of the beast being a winger but the argument that we have an abundance of talent better in his position is just not true.

 

 

Probably the best post I've ever read on here that I didn't write.  Well played sir.  

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3 hours ago, csinclair said:

Forrest does well for Celtic but in 34 caps has had 2 good games for Scotland. Personally I'd play Armstrong wide right ahead of him.

He's had way more than 2 good games.

He's had 2 excellent games and several poor ones but he's had quite a few good performances in there as well.

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7 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

As soon as I saw you mention Oli Burke (who couldn't get near the Celtic side for the most of the time he was there) then your argument losing a lot of weight.

You go on about Forrest being anonymous yet have stated that McBurnie and Burke should be getting a game in this thread, They define anonymous in a Scotland shirt.

You also state you can't judge Forrest based on playing in Scotland which is bizarre given his stats in Europe which you either choose to ignore or just don't know what you are on about.

This season:

CL Qualifying

Scored home and away vs Cluj

Scored home and away vs AIK

Europa League

Scored away vs Lazio

Add that to the FIVE goals he scored in 4 qualifying games for Scotland to get to these play offs, then I'd say he has more than merited his place ahead of the likes of shite like Burke.

This season he has played 24 games for Celtic, 10 goals and 12 assists.

Oli Burke has played 18 games, 1 goal and 1 assist!

Ryan Fraser 25 games, 1 goal and 3 assists.

Even taking into account standards of the leagues, there is zero argument IMO based on club or country form for either of those two to get a nod a head of Forrest.

I'm all for player bashing but the examples of players you'd play ahead of him are just daft IMO.

Every manager he has played under has played him for both club and country but some folk on TAMB don't rate him as he never turns up, despite being the main reason we're actually in the play offs!

You literally couldn't make it up!

Seems to me he's an easy target whilst some big name players from down south continually play worse in a Scotland shirt. Suppose that's the nature of the beast being a winger but the argument that we have an abundance of talent better in his position is just not true.

 

 

Not sure how I missed this, but I’ll echo what @PASTA Mick said, one of the best posts written on here. Fair play mate. 

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