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3 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I’m in work now and the other nurses just decided to put on face masks half way through the shift, despite no confirmed cases in the Town, never mind the hospital. Not the best decision when patients start freaking out. 

Nah.

My missus ended up falling out with a consultant about 3 weeks ago because he was doing his rounds wearing a facemask. It was freaking out patients.

She ended up 'winning' the argument by pointing out that the masks are meant to be single use per patient, and that he should have been changing it each time.

The virus has now taken out a chunk of the A+E workforce. In hindsight, he was ahead of the curve and all of the staff should have been wearing them.

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Folk are padding about here like it's a fuckin bank holiday. Tidying up the garden, taking stuff to the tip, thought I even caught a whiff of barbecue there. 

Can it be possible that people still don't appreciate what's coming? 

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1 minute ago, phart said:

I looked into it and found the original guys tweet, it seems to be genuine.

Incredulity isn't a good replacement for investigation/experimentation.

I saw the original tweet. Doesn’t mean it’s genuine. It could well be but I prefer to get my news from trusted sources rather than social media. 

Some people believe anything they read on the internet. That’s up to them. I only believe things that are backed up by evidence. 

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2 minutes ago, slasher said:

Folk are padding about here like it's a fuckin bank holiday. Tidying up the garden, taking stuff to the tip, thought I even caught a whiff of barbecue there. 

Can it be possible that people still don't appreciate what's coming? 

None of this is against government advice. Should we all be cowering in our homes?

You can’t catch the virus from a barbecue or doing some gardening. 

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2 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

None of this is against government advice. Should we all be cowering in our homes?

You can’t catch the virus from a barbecue or doing some gardening. 

No, but they're not practising social distancing either. You do it your way and I'll do it mine 👍

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Our behaviour here is exactly in line with what happened in Italy. The countries that have handled this best have control over their populations be it by force or voluntary compliance. Italy have the excuse of being the first european nation, we don't we have several countries ahead of us (by weeks) yet folk were unable to learn a lesson by observation (including the government).

Folk will see what's coming out of London in the next week and hopefully will shock them, but by then probably too late.

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4 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

None of this is against government advice. Should we all be cowering in our homes?

You can’t catch the virus from a barbecue or doing some gardening. 

Taking stuff to the tip sounds like non essential travel, surely?

A barbecue with no guest is probably OK...

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1 minute ago, slasher said:

No, but they're not practising social distancing either. You do it your way and I'll do it mine 👍

Maybe you should’ve mentioned that in your post instead of citing gardening and barbecues as examples? Even going to the dump is fine as long as you keep your distance from people. 

If people are going against government advice then they are nuts and will make things worse. We still have lives to lead though and can’t stay in our houses for the next year. 

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8 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

I saw the original tweet. Doesn’t mean it’s genuine. It could well be but I prefer to get my news from trusted sources rather than social media. 

Some people believe anything they read on the internet. That’s up to them. I only believe things that are backed up by evidence. 

The first tweet isn't the original tweet though, you have to go further and see it was tweeted by https://mobile.twitter.com/joseph_hoar

Anyway everyone is responsible for how they parse information, it's not a big deal.

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2 minutes ago, exile said:

Taking stuff to the tip sounds like non essential travel, surely?

A barbecue with no guest is probably OK...

I’m not sure going to the dump would come under what the government are classing as travel. 

Probably ok? It’s absolutely fine to have a barbecue with whoever you live with. Just don’t invite anyone round. 

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2 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Maybe you should’ve mentioned that in your post instead of citing gardening and barbecues as examples? Even going to the dump is fine as long as you keep your distance from people. 

If people are going against government advice then they are nuts and will make things worse. We still have lives to lead though and can’t stay in our houses for the next year. 

Maybe you should have picked up on the general tone...... anyway I'll try and be a bit more explicit in future 👍

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9 minutes ago, phart said:

Our behaviour here is exactly in line with what happened in Italy. The countries that have handled this best have control over their populations be it by force or voluntary compliance. Italy have the excuse of being the first european nation, we don't we have several countries ahead of us (by weeks) yet folk were unable to learn a lesson by observation (including the government).

Folk will see what's coming out of London in the next week and hopefully will shock them, but by then probably too late.

This is the real tragedy, or scandal rather. Any country or government could be slow off the mark when facing an unknown virus. But we have sat an watched it unfold in Italy as if it's someone else's problem, as if just waiting to see if it will happen here.

Whatever Lombardy is doing now, shouldn't we be considering or implementing. I see they are doing this:
 

Quote

 

Under the new rules announced late on Saturday, sport and physical activity outside, even individually, is banned. Using vending machines is forbidden.

The move comes as Italy reported nearly 800 coronavirus deaths on Saturday and saw its toll for the past month reach 4,825, the highest in the world.

Lombardy is the worst-affected region in the country with 3,095 deaths.

The region's President Attilio Fontana announced the new measures in a statement.

Businesses have been asked to close all operations excluding "essential" supply chains. Work on building sites will be stopped apart from those working on hospitals, roads and railways.

All open-air weekly markets have been suspended.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51991972

 

Shouldn't we be doing the same kinds of thing, right now? Otherwise we will be Lombardy in a couple of weeks?

 

Edited by exile
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3 minutes ago, slasher said:

Maybe you should have picked up on the general tone...... anyway I'll try and be a bit more explicit in future 👍

You were suggesting people shouldn’t be gardening or having barbecues and I was pointing out that it is fine to do these things. 

I didn’t know you meant they weren’t social distancing as well (although I’m not sure how you knew this about the alleged barbecuer as you only smelled it). This wasn’t clear from your tone. Or if it was I completely missed it. 

The thing is that the government actually want some people to start catching the virus so it passes through the population slowly and steadily so they are actually relying on some people not following their advice. Not that they would ever admit this.  

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5 minutes ago, exile said:

This is the real tragedy, or scandal rather. Any country or government could be slow off the mark when facing an unknown virus. But we have sat an watched it unfold in Italy as if it's someone else's problem, as if jusst waiting for it to happen here.

Whatever Lombardy is doing now, we would be considering or implementing. I see they are doing this:
 

Shouldn't we be doing the same kinds of thing, right now? Otherwise we will be Lombardy in a couple of weeks?

 

They used the wrong modelling as well. Models need good information to work.

I thought it was wrong when i was looking at it, they ran a 2018 simulation which seemed to be informing their view. The simulation and real life actually matched up perfectly as patient zero was in the same geographical location (some place called wellingstone or similiar, can't mind this was a bit ago i read it.) their model had it taking 6 weeks to reach Glasgow and it took in reality 10 days or something. My best mate is a senior manager in the financial sector and I was moaning to him that it seemed to me that the model was wrong, however I was saying that seems unlikely considering i'm a carer for my gran and not an epidemiologist. I still can't understand how they got it all wrong.

 

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6 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

You were suggesting people shouldn’t be gardening or having barbecues and I was pointing out that it is fine to do these things. 

I didn’t know you meant they weren’t social distancing as well (although I’m not sure how you knew this about the alleged barbecuer as you only smelled it). This wasn’t clear from your tone. Or if it was I completely missed it. 

The thing is that the government actually want some people to start catching the virus so it passes through the population slowly and steadily so they are actually relying on some people not following their advice. Not that they would ever admit this.  

It looks like it's about to kick off about the original strategy

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/22/no-10-denies-claim-dominic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die

 

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5 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

You were suggesting people shouldn’t be gardening or having barbecues and I was pointing out that it is fine to do these things. 

I didn’t know you meant they weren’t social distancing as well (although I’m not sure how you knew this about the alleged barbecuer as you only smelled it). This wasn’t clear from your tone. Or if it was I completely missed it. 

The thing is that the government actually want some people to start catching the virus so it passes through the population slowly and steadily so they are actually relying on some people not following their advice. Not that they would ever admit this.  

I dunno 'padding about as though it's a fuckin bank holiday' would conjure up a certain image in my mind but apparently not for you. Anyway, we'll leave it there you seem like a dog with a bone here and no doubt you'll want the last word..... have it! 

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On 3/14/2020 at 8:59 AM, aaid said:

I saw this thread on Twitter earlier which explains what the government is trying to do - or at least what the author thinks they're trying to do.

Its not without risks though.   TBH, I can understand why they're reluctant to go into this level of detail as there's far too much nuance for the media to deal with.

 

 

 

On 3/14/2020 at 10:10 AM, phart said:

Exactly behavioural scientists trying to do epidemiologists job.

The branch of science riddled with the replication crisis trying to manage an actual experiment.

I've wrote elsewhere I don't think this is a good idea. (to put it mildly).

Just to point out someone on the actual decision making process was speaking on twitter too, they were a behavioural scientist. Hence my use of the term this dude is not in the exact same branch.

oh in fact i was writing about it here as well, thought i was just moaning to my mate in whatsapp.

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It will be hard in the current climate to get any in the shops but if you can try and get disposable medical gloves and wear them when you are outside

I look after my Dad who is 88 so i have half a box worth's left - you usually get 100 in a box

That's better advice than masks IMO

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On 3/14/2020 at 10:33 AM, exile said:

 

I read somewhere that Cummings could be the one driving this, poring over the stats and aiming at a strategy that could be clever, realistic, a calculated risk. But delivered by Johnson, it comes across as dithering, possibly callous and self-serving, and bumbling about singing the national anthem. 

So it could be the UK Govt is indeed trying to do the right thing - and perhaps why the Scottish Govt going along with it, as far as trusting the 'science' goes (Peter Wishart was very supportive of the Govt line - perhaps uncomfortably so - on Question Time on Thursday).

But for the strategy to work the public need to trust the Government. If they don't, they start to panic and start cancelling events and so on, and then it seems the Government having to react to what the public are actually doing, possibly even change the plan if public aren't going along with it (e.g. closing schols or taking kids away from school anyway). 

Presumably the UK Government planned, all along, to have bans on mass gatherings, but just not so soon. The fact that Nicola Sturgeon did so first could be what infuriated them on Thursday. Not so much that her policy was wrong (almost no-one criticised her for the policy itself), but that she announced it ahead of the UK Government. And not just because she literally made the announcement a few hours early, but because she moved into the "mass ban" phase days earlier than for rest of UK. So it made them look tardy and reactive. Hence the fury on Thursday.

Not so much angry at NS doing her day job within the devolved situation, but angry that the existence of different devolved solutions became a distraction from them rolling out their own plan for England in their own time. But that's the consequence of UK media hungry for 24 hour news during a crisis.

Presumably the UK Govt is suiting its strategy to match the English NHS preparedness and capacity. But it can't say out loud why that is different from Scotland's?

Seems Cummings is getting the blame as well.

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5 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

There’s no doubt that taking no action whatsoever was discussed. I’m not sure how seriously it was considered though.

The government is currently in the process of destroying the economy so it probably came down  to a choice of saving thousands of lives or saving the economy. Once they realised the actual number of people that might die there was only one choice. 

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47 minutes ago, slasher said:

Folk are padding about here like it's a fuckin bank holiday. Tidying up the garden, taking stuff to the tip, thought I even caught a whiff of barbecue there. 

Can it be possible that people still don't appreciate what's coming? 

Berwick is rammed the exact same. That said I’m off for a walk around the walls then off to local micro pub to fill up a couple of growlers. 😂

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31 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

The thing is that the government actually want some people to start catching the virus so it passes through the population slowly and steadily so they are actually relying on some people not following their advice. Not that they would ever admit this.  

To be honest, I am not really sure what the government really thinks or wants, I don't know if they know.

For example I don't know how much of the following Johnson himself believes, or believed in.

 

Edited by exile
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10 minutes ago, exile said:

Seeing that tweet again, its clear a week is a long time in pandemics as in politics.

I was shocked to see it was less than 2 weeks ago, felt like a month, everything seems so long ago.

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