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4 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

For no reason. Don’t forget that. The meagre sacrifice made by the Scottish football fan has been for no benefit whatsoever. That is clear. 

These people have been elected and entrusted to make good decisions.And they have made many bad ones recently. 

And it is easy to excuse them all, because in the ultimate analysis nothing matters - least of all football. 

However, we have very little time on this earth. We shouldn’t spend it inside for no reason.

The Scottish government should never have banned footballs crowds. It has been a terribly stupid decision which alas has been of no use.

Oh really 😆Thanks for your expert input!

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4 minutes ago, Lamia said:

Oh really 😆Thanks for your expert input!

It’s not just me. The Scottish government have already reversed their position! 

Before the ink is dry on their initial position! 

Do you disagree? Show me your science and then I will show you mine.

Edited by Morrisandmoo
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I am very pleased that the Scottish government have changed their policy and re-permitted Scottish football. 

Another part of me wishes that they had persisted for a little longer, just to prove to a certainty that it was worthless and stupid.

Unfortunately they have been shitebags and quickly deferred instead to English policies. So it will be more difficult to prove that they were stupid ideas all along. However hopefully we have clever enough analysts to distill the obvious.

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1 hour ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I am very pleased that the Scottish government have changed their policy and re-permitted Scottish football. 

Another part of me wishes that they had persisted for a little longer, just to prove to a certainty that it was worthless and stupid.

Unfortunately they have been shitebags and quickly deferred instead to English policies. So it will be more difficult to prove that they were stupid ideas all along. However hopefully we have clever enough analysts to distill the obvious.

There are umpteen recorded superspreader events in the last 2 years - The Cheltenham festival being the most well known

You can look them up

Yet some folk think that sporting events in Scotland are somehow different

The bottom line is that it only takes one person to infect hundreds in close contact situations - trains, buses, cars, pubs, toilets, refreshment stall, turnstiles

But yeah lets not be cautious,  moan like fuck and sing songs about Nicola Sturgeon 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

There are umpteen recorded superspreader events in the last 2 years - The Cheltenham festival being the most well known

You can look them up

Yet some folk think that sporting events in Scotland are somehow different

The bottom line is that it only takes one person to infect hundreds in close contact situations - trains, buses, cars, pubs, toilets, refreshment stall, turnstiles

But yeah lets not be cautious,  moan like fuck and sing songs about Nicola Sturgeon 

 

 

 

Is it not more the virus is different now and people are vaccinated etc? 

Don’t get me wrong I don’t know enough to praise or criticise the Scottish government’s decision here I can definitely understand why taking a cautious approach, even now makes sense.  

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7 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

For no reason. Don’t forget that. The meagre sacrifice made by the Scottish football fan has been for no benefit whatsoever. That is clear. 

These people have been elected and entrusted to make good decisions.And they have made many bad ones recently. 

And it is easy to excuse them all, because in the ultimate analysis nothing matters - least of all football. 

However, we have very little time on this earth. We shouldn’t spend it inside for no reason.

The Scottish government should never have banned footballs crowds. It has been a terribly stupid decision which alas has been of no use.

How do you know it was the wrong decision? Perhaps the decision stopped the spread of covid. 

It wasn't just football affected. I really wish football fans would stop playing the victim here. All sporting events were affected as was the hospitality industry.

You're being dramatic got effect here, you didn't have to stay inside. Large scale events were not allowed crowds of over 500 for a limited period. Its hardly taking away a part of your life

 

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7 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

For no reason. Don’t forget that. The meagre sacrifice made by the Scottish football fan has been for no benefit whatsoever. That is clear. 

These people have been elected and entrusted to make good decisions.And they have made many bad ones recently. 

And it is easy to excuse them all, because in the ultimate analysis nothing matters - least of all football. 

However, we have very little time on this earth. We shouldn’t spend it inside for no reason.

The Scottish government should never have banned footballs crowds. It has been a terribly stupid decision which alas has been of no use.

It gave some folk something to moan about. That's got to be worth something? 

I am a wee bit suspicious that they changed the rules just in time for the rugby though. I think Nicola might be turning posh? 😉

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9 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

For no reason. Don’t forget that. The meagre sacrifice made by the Scottish football fan has been for no benefit whatsoever. That is clear. 

These people have been elected and entrusted to make good decisions.And they have made many bad ones recently. 

And it is easy to excuse them all, because in the ultimate analysis nothing matters - least of all football. 

However, we have very little time on this earth. We shouldn’t spend it inside for no reason.

The Scottish government should never have banned footballs crowds. It has been a terribly stupid decision which alas has been of no use.

With your ability to see into the future could you give me next weekends lottery numbers 👍

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9 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

It’s not just me. The Scottish government have already reversed their position! 

Before the ink is dry on their initial position! 

Do you disagree? Show me your science and then I will show you mine.

You are the one that made the claim it is not for me to prove. It is for you to prove how the virus would decide not to bother transmitting between thousands of people travelling to an event and then attending it.

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2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

How do you know it was the wrong decision? Perhaps the decision stopped the spread of covid. 

It wasn't just football affected. I really wish football fans would stop playing the victim here. All sporting events were affected as was the hospitality industry.

You're being dramatic got effect here, you didn't have to stay inside. Large scale events were not allowed crowds of over 500 for a limited period. Its hardly taking away a part of your life

 

It cracks me up how this has become all about football, even allowing for the fact this is a football board.   I suspect of much more concern would’ve been Hogmanay street parties.   For the vast majority of the football supporting public, only one game was impacted anyway. 

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1 hour ago, aaid said:

It cracks me up how this has become all about football, even allowing for the fact this is a football board.   I suspect of much more concern would’ve been Hogmanay street parties.   For the vast majority of the football supporting public, only one game was impacted anyway. 

Nobody was more gutted than me at missing the football at christmas. I was back in the north east of scotland from the 27th. I was meant to go see my local highland league side and also attend the Dons v Rangers but both were cancelled. It wouldve been the first time I was able to see either team in 5 years but I soon got over it 

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1 hour ago, Lamia said:

You are the one that made the claim it is not for me to prove. It is for you to prove how the virus would decide not to bother transmitting between thousands of people travelling to an event and then attending it.

The proof is there in the past how it can cause spikes. At the start of all this Liverpool played a Champions League match at Anfield in front of a full house and days later there was a spike in Covid cases in Liverpool. I am surprised people are still in denial that mass gatherings such as sporting events do not cause covid concerns.

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Yes, but clearly after vaxxing, define ‘covid concerns’? The question now is how much of a concern is transmission if it results in mild or even no symptoms…… I’d say the reduction in isolation guidelines tell you the authorities are close to giving up on limiting transmission…… they don’t think it’s an issue…… right or wrong.

don’t bust your balls to avoid transmitting something that the majority can take…… if you’re vulnerable then society has to look after you, but not to extent of shutting everything down for everyone, that’s a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

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10 minutes ago, ger intae them said:

Yes, but clearly after vaxxing, define ‘covid concerns’? The question now is how much of a concern is transmission if it results in mild or even no symptoms…… I’d say the reduction in isolation guidelines tell you the authorities are close to giving up on limiting transmission…… they don’t think it’s an issue…… right or wrong.

don’t bust your balls to avoid transmitting something that the majority can take…… if you’re vulnerable then society has to look after you, but not to extent of shutting everything down for everyone, that’s a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Was gonna say something similar. 

 

45 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The proof is there in the past how it can cause spikes. At the start of all this Liverpool played a Champions League match at Anfield in front of a full house and days later there was a spike in Covid cases in Liverpool. I am surprised people are still in denial that mass gatherings such as sporting events do not cause covid concerns.

Wasn’t that last year? 

Nobody here is in mass denial but things have changed. 

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1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Was gonna say something similar. 

 

Wasn’t that last year? 

Nobody here is in mass denial but things have changed. 

COVID has pissed off everybody at one time or another be it for restrictions (be they thought to be too slack or too severe). Every government in the world has been making restrictions up as COVID mutates once and mutates again. If missing a football game is doing people's heads in - it could be far worse.

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1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

COVID has pissed off everybody at one time or another be it for restrictions (be they thought to be too slack or too severe). Every government in the world has been making restrictions up as COVID mutates once and mutates again. If missing a football game is doing people's heads in - it could be far worse.

Can’t disagree with any of that. 

In many ways the government’s are damned either way. 

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5 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Was gonna say something similar. 

 

Wasn’t that last year? 

Nobody here is in mass denial but things have changed. 

That was a week before the first national lockdown. 3000 Atletico Madrid fans attended at a time when Madrid was the epicentre of the European outbreak and at a time when the Spanish and Italian governments were pleading with the UK government to shut the border 

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6 minutes ago, King Of Paisley said:

That was a week before the first national lockdown. 3000 Atletico Madrid fans attended at a time when Madrid was the epicentre of the European outbreak and at a time when the Spanish and Italian governments were pleading with the UK government to shut the border 

That’s right.

Mistakes have definitely been made and will continue to be made unfortunately. 

Not often I say this but I do have sympathy with governments trying to make the right decisions when things can change so quickly. 

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Deaths have been trending downwards globally.

I'm not really sure what the best course is. I'm lucky where i'm pretty OK to pursue a cautious approach to avoiding covid. I'm pretty much one of the most cautious folk I know atm.

It's easy to be cautious when there are no external pressures forcing your hand.

 

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23 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

That’s right.

Mistakes have definitely been made and will continue to be made unfortunately. 

Not often I say this but I do have sympathy with governments trying to make the right decisions when things can change so quickly. 

Classic example of that was transferring elderly hospital patients into care homes which sadly might come and bite the SG severely on the arse at any inquiry. It was the best of intentions to try and move them into what was perceived to be a more protective environment away from what was a Covid war zone but sadly it backfired as we have all saw. 

As someone else said earlier, damned either way

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12 minutes ago, King Of Paisley said:

Classic example of that was transferring elderly hospital patients into care homes which sadly might come and bite the SG severely on the arse at any inquiry. It was the best of intentions to try and move them into what was perceived to be a more protective environment away from what was a Covid war zone but sadly it backfired as we have all saw. 

As someone else said earlier, damned either way

It seems that rather than find out what happened and what can be learned so that it can be applied in the future there’s a desire from some quarters - media, political opponents and parts of the general population - to want to ascribe blame and fault and ideally an individual or set of individuals to hang it all on.

If you want to be objective then you have to weigh “bad decisions” up against the reasons why those decisions where made - including possible options which might have had a worst case outcome - and, importantly, the data and body of knowledge which informed those decisions.   At the start it’s worth remembering that there was very little about COVID that was known and so there was a lot of “flying blind”.  Even two years in it’s a constantly evolving picture.

I’ve heard people - who should know better - saying that pulling people out of hospital and putting them into care homes untested was “obviously” a bad idea.   With hindsight it turned out to be a bad decision at the time though was it the best decision based on the circumstances then?

The decision to pull vulnerable - generally elderly and infirm - people out of hospitals seems to be predicated on two things, that they needed to free up beds in hospitals to cope with COVID patients and that it was thought that having vulnerable people in hospitals that were swimming in COVID wasn’t a good idea.

On the testing side, it’s clear that some but not all patients were released without being tested.  A lot of that will be down to not having the testing infrastructure we currently have combined with genuine errors.  However it’s not been established - at least as far as I know - if people coming out of hospital with undetected COVID was the major cause of the problems in care homes, or whether or not it was caused by staff and visitors who were asymptomatic and unaware they were infectious bring it in.  That’s something an inquiry definitely needs to get to the bottom of.

If you remember back then, if you had symptoms you were told to self isolate for two weeks.  There were hardly any publicly available tests so you couldn’t check if you had it or not.  It was also thought then that you were only infectious if you had symptoms and if you were asymptomatic you couldn’t pass it on.

So it’s pretty obvious that there were problems in care homes.  Pulling people out of hospital to care homes, seems now to have been a bad move but it’s not clear to what extent that’s contributed to the problems especially as what was known about the virus and how it spreads has evolved a lot since that time. 

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10 minutes ago, aaid said:

It seems that rather than find out what happened and what can be learned so that it can be applied in the future there’s a desire from some quarters - media, political opponents and parts of the general population - to want to ascribe blame and fault and ideally an individual or set of individuals to hang it all on.

If you want to be objective then you have to weigh “bad decisions” up against the reasons why those decisions where made - including possible options which might have had a worst case outcome - and, importantly, the data and body of knowledge which informed those decisions.   At the start it’s worth remembering that there was very little about COVID that was known and so there was a lot of “flying blind”.  Even two years in it’s a constantly evolving picture.

I’ve heard people - who should know better - saying that pulling people out of hospital and putting them into care homes untested was “obviously” a bad idea.   With hindsight it turned out to be a bad decision at the time though was it the best decision based on the circumstances then?

The decision to pull vulnerable - generally elderly and infirm - people out of hospitals seems to be predicated on two things, that they needed to free up beds in hospitals to cope with COVID patients and that it was thought that having vulnerable people in hospitals that were swimming in COVID wasn’t a good idea.

On the testing side, it’s clear that some but not all patients were released without being tested.  A lot of that will be down to not having the testing infrastructure we currently have combined with genuine errors.  However it’s not been established - at least as far as I know - if people coming out of hospital with undetected COVID was the major cause of the problems in care homes, or whether or not it was caused by staff and visitors who were asymptomatic and unaware they were infectious bring it in.  That’s something an inquiry definitely needs to get to the bottom of.

If you remember back then, if you had symptoms you were told to self isolate for two weeks.  There were hardly any publicly available tests so you couldn’t check if you had it or not.  It was also thought then that you were only infectious if you had symptoms and if you were asymptomatic you couldn’t pass it on.

So it’s pretty obvious that there were problems in care homes.  Pulling people out of hospital to care homes, seems now to have been a bad move but it’s not clear to what extent that’s contributed to the problems especially as what was known about the virus and how it spreads has evolved a lot since that time. 

Good post 👍

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