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2 hours ago, daviebee said:

Anybody else had an absolute bstrd of a painful shoulder since getting jagged?  It feels like the beginning of a frozen shoulder - reaching up, back or to the side is fkin hideous.  I got no other symptoms after my 3 jags but tbh I would've preferred a few days with flu-like issues to this.  Hopefully it'll wear off in time but not pleasant right now.  😬

yeah, i got that

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20 hours ago, Orraloon said:

The rules aren't being "bent". Different rules have applied to some NHS staff for a while now. There is logic to having different rules for different for different people. You might not agree with the rules, and in time it might be shown that the decision was wrong, but they have been thought through. They are taking calculated risks all the time with these decisions. They won't get them all right.

Now this is what I call "bending the rules". But everybody has got their own opinion on what should be considered important. So maybe I'm just nit picking?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-59876203

 

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20 hours ago, Orraloon said:

The rules aren't being "bent". Different rules have applied to some NHS staff for a while now. There is logic to having different rules for different for different people. You might not agree with the rules, and in time it might be shown that the decision was wrong, but they have been thought through. They are taking calculated risks all the time with these decisions. They won't get them all right.

So it's safe to risk shorter isolation for people dealing with sick folk but not folk going to work in a factory or a self employed tradesman? 

The isolation rules are a joke full stop and she's dug herself into a hole. 

My mates school has 15 teachers off today due to isolation, 6 of whom who would be in work had they worked in England, Wales or NI. Absolutely nailed on the rules change today and there is zero reason other than Sturgeons stubborness on the subject as to why they haven't changed already. Maybe if she hadn't been quick to give smart arse answers when asked about it a fortnight ago then she wouldn't be dragging her heels on the subject now. 

My brother and sister both teachers, haven't spoken to them today but you can be rest assured that the teacher absence will be similar. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Now this is what I call "bending the rules". But everybody has got their own opinion on what should be considered important. So maybe I'm just nit picking?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-59876203

 

That's exactly what it is and there's been plenty of similar stuff up here. Like extending pub opening times during COP during a pandemic yet the rest of the year any request would have got laughed at and only a few months earlier pubs were getting hit with daft curfews as pubs were seemingly dangerous. This was when ICU admissions were a good bit higher than they are now. Makes zero sense but not much of it does. 

As for the tennis, rules for some and rules for others. 

Jamie Murray was excellent last night on the subject. 

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3 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

So it's safe to risk shorter isolation for people dealing with sick folk but not folk going to work in a factory or a self employed tradesman? 

 

 

Are you still refusing to at least get the logic. If a factory is short staffed of a self employed person doesn't go to work this doesn't risk lives. If a hospital is short staffed then there is increased risk for patients.The argument is then is the risk of not enough staff greater than the risk of the staff transmitting Covid - this can actually vary given the circumstances. England's infection rate is different from  Scotlands so the decisions can reasonably differ and decisions made at different times.

You are so blinded with hatred for NS you are incapable of dispassionately looking at the arguments.

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Another observation I would make which may account for the differences is that it appears to me that Gregor Smith is more risk averse when you listen to him than some of the advisors in England.

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It’s pretty obvious that during the last two years the Scottish, Welsh and NI Governments have been generally more cautious, quicker to introduce restrictions and slower to lift them.  The UKG on the other hand has been a bit more gung ho.   The devolved governments seem to have prioritised trying to keep infections as under control as much as possible, and all that flows from it, reduce hospitalisations and deaths.  The UKG has tried to keep the economy as open as possible and to try and have some level of “normality”.

People can make make their own decisions on which approach they think is best and what they think is most important, but it’s nothing to do with Sturgeon being stubborn, wanting to be different, hating football, not wanting a referendum or whatever other bullshit reason people come up with. 

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24 minutes ago, aaid said:

 

People can make make their own decisions on which approach they think is best and what they think is most important, but it’s nothing to do with Sturgeon being stubborn, wanting to be different, hating football, not wanting a referendum or whatever other bullshit reason people come up with. 

You forgot 'authoritarian dictator on a power trip'... that's my favourite.

Edited by Dave78
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19 hours ago, dj mick said:

yeah, i got that

Did it go away?

I found this - https://www.ismp.org/resources/prevent-shoulder-injuries-during-covid-19-vaccinations - it's from The Institute for Safe Medication Practices.  I could've written these fkin symptoms myself.  At the chiropractor today and they told me there's been quite a few folk complaining about the same thing.

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23 hours ago, daviebee said:

Anybody else had an absolute bstrd of a painful shoulder since getting jagged?  It feels like the beginning of a frozen shoulder - reaching up, back or to the side is fkin hideous.  I got no other symptoms after my 3 jags but tbh I would've preferred a few days with flu-like issues to this.  Hopefully it'll wear off in time but not pleasant right now.  😬

I had this start after the first vaccination. It was mild for a few months then got progressively worse. Best advice I could give is get physio. I had anti inflammatory pills as well but aIl they did was upset my stomach. I was looking at a cortisone injection before finally after 2 months of physio it eased. All in all I had it about 9 months before it became bearable. Its still not 100% but I'm hoping by the spring it'll just be a distant memory. 

Gid luck! 

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4 hours ago, Lamia said:

ed with hatred for NS you are incapable of dispassionately looking at the arguments.

Yeah i vote for somebody i hate. 

You might hate all the folk you don't agree with on certain issues but that's up to you. I certainly don't hate Sturgeon, nor does that mean that i have to agree with her on this subject. 

 

4 hours ago, Lamia said:

Are you still refusing to at least get the logic. If a factory is short staffed of a self employed person doesn't go to work this doesn't risk lives. If a hospital is short staffed then there is increased risk for patients.The argument is then is the risk of not enough staff greater than the risk of the staff transmitting Covid - this can actually vary given the circumstances. England's infection rate is different from  Scotlands so the decisions can reasonably differ and decisions made at different times.

 

I get the logic - my point is that if it's safe for NHS staff to go in after 7 days isolation, then it is surely safe for people who don't work in such vulnerable settings to do likewise? As in, somebody can go to work in a cancer ward after 7 days isolation but somebody who works as a mechanic themselves couldn't even walk their dog on day 9? I know where the greater risk is, so if it's deemed safe for one, it should be across the board. 

As for today's changes, you now need to isolate for 10 days if a close contact regardless of test result if you have only two doses and waiting on a third? Madness. 

My sister was told not to take vaccine when pregnant, had first doses days after giving birth a couple of weeks back and will not have booster until May. Now every time she gets pinged she is in the house for 10 days no matter if her PCR is negative or not. I honestly do not see the logic in that change to the rules, perhaps one of you who can explain this? 

 

Edited by Squirrelhumper
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10 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I get the logic - my point is that if it's safe for NHS staff to go in after 7 days isolation, then it is surely safe for people who don't work in such vulnerable settings to do likewise? As in, somebody can go to work in a cancer ward after 7 days isolation but somebody who works as a mechanic themselves couldn't even walk their dog on day 9? I know where the greater risk is, so if it's deemed safe for one, it should be across the board. 

Nowhere is safe, that’s the fundamental point.  Some settings can have mitigations in place to reduce the risk but nowhere is safe.

For some settings, e.g. the NHS, the impact of closing down or reducing staff is greater to the population as a whole, this is why in 2020, *before* anyone was vaccinated the NHS stayed open when virtually everyone else was completely locked down.  Mitigations we’re put in place to make it as safe as possible but that’s why sadly, early on, lots of NHS staff contracted COVID and some sadly died.

Although no-one would exactly come out and say it but the health of the general population was being put ahead of NHS staff.   This may sound really callous but I guess it’s a risk that comes with the job and if you don’t want to be around infectious people on a daily basis, maybe choose a different career, in the same way if you don’t want to be shot, don’t be a soldier and if you don’t want to run into burning buildings don’t be a fire fighter.

And all of us that aren’t in those sort of careers should be eternally grateful to those that are because they enable us to live our lives as safely, peacefully and healthily as possible - and none of them get paid enough. 

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18 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

 

 

I get the logic - my point is that if it's safe for NHS staff to go in after 7 days isolation, then it is surely safe for people who don't work in such vulnerable settings to do likewise? As in, somebody can go to work in a cancer ward after 7 days isolation but somebody who works as a mechanic themselves couldn't even walk their dog on day 9? I know where the greater risk is, so if it's deemed safe for one, it should be across the board. 

As for today's changes, you now need to isolate for 10 days if a close contact regardless of test result if you have only two doses and waiting on a third? Madness. 

My sister was told not to take vaccine when pregnant, had first doses days after giving birth a couple of weeks back and will not have booster until May. Now every time she gets pinged she is in the house for 10 days no matter if her PCR is negative or not. I honestly do not see the logic in that change to the rules, perhaps one of you who can explain this? 

 

Nothing is "Safe". That's the whole point. It isn't "safe" to reduce it to 7 days for anybody. Even 10 days isn't safe. It's about weighing up all the risks involved and coming to balanced decisions based on those calculations. You and I don't have the data to make those quantitative risk assessments. Even the professionals whose job it is to do the calculations continually tell us that even they don't have all the data they would like to have. They are constantly trying to predict the future. Even with all the data in the world that is almost an impossible task.

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On 1/3/2022 at 9:37 AM, TDYER63 said:

 

Anyway, I know you know all this , I am only rambling on at 9.30 am on a miserable Monday morning as I made my way to work thinking I was working only to find out its a holiday for 1 Jan 😫

 

 

Have done that myself. A bittersweet experience!

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On 1/4/2022 at 5:25 PM, phart said:

 

I’ve got to say that I am very much encouraged by this (eg icu experience being close to a normal year in London) if it holds. That is not what I expected with those case numbers I have to say. 
 

It also clearly underlines that we need more NHS capacity generally, and as quickly as we can build it, even if COVID magics itself away.

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1 minute ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I’ve got to say that I am very much encouraged by this (eg icu experience being close to a normal year in London) if it holds. That is not what I expected with those case numbers I have to say. 
 

It also clearly underlines that we need more NHS capacity generally, and as quickly as we can build it, even if COVID magics itself away.

Yeah considering what it could have been like without vaccines. The news that omicron also might provide protection from other variants too. We might have lucked out in the evolutionary pathway this time.

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4 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

 

 

I get the logic - my point is that if it's safe for NHS staff to go in after 7 days isolation, then it is surely safe for people who don't work in such vulnerable settings to do likewise?

 

That there proves you don't get the logic

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4 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Nothing is "Safe". That's the whole point. It isn't "safe" to reduce it to 7 days for anybody. Even 10 days isn't safe. It's about weighing up all the risks involved and coming to balanced decisions based on those calculations. You and I don't have the data to make those quantitative risk assessments. Even the professionals whose job it is to do the calculations continually tell us that even they don't have all the data they would like to have. They are constantly trying to predict the future. Even with all the data in the world that is almost an impossible task.

Not sure why you are bothering. This has been explained multiple times but het still doesn't get it so it is clear he doesn't want to get it.

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1 hour ago, phart said:

Yeah considering what it could have been like without vaccines. The news that omicron also might provide protection from other variants too. We might have lucked out in the evolutionary pathway this time.

Hopefully it won't start to rise as more older people catch it.

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