Coronavirus

[phart]

 

Looking at the paper though seems the risk is considerably higher in certain demographs though. Mainly young males.

[TDYER63]

Germany bans the great unvaccinated from pubs and restaurants, non essential shops, cinemas and other leisure facilities.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2021/12/02/germany-announces-a-lockdown-for-its-unvaccinated

[dj mick]

On 12/1/2021 at 1:01 PM, chaff said:

I'm home from Berlin.

The difference in the 2 countries is staggering. 

I wasn't even asked for my passenger location form on arrival at Edinburgh.

Neither was i, but i think it's linked when you show your passport n stuff cos i asked the guy if he wanted to see it and he said, "It's ok, I can see here you've done it"

[Squirrelhumper]

34 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Germany bans the great unvaccinated from pubs and restaurants, non essential shops, cinemas and other leisure facilities.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2021/12/02/germany-announces-a-lockdown-for-its-unvaccinated

That's not gonna end well and i say that as somebody who is vaxxed to the max. 

[TDYER63]

9 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

That's not gonna end well and i say that as somebody who is vaxxed to the max. 

Its definitely not. Dangerous route to go down. 

[phart]

It's trying to balance the rights of competing interests for example

Cancer patients have the right to get operation on their cancers but those rights are curtailed by the rights of people not to get vaccinated.

Navigating between competing rights is very hard.

[phart]

 

[thplinth]

I grew up in times where riots were fairly regular and I never felt any compulsion to join in but if I was younger now I would be so up for a riot it is shocking to me. People should be tearing the joint apart at this point. And I hope they do.

What do they think all these people they are ostracizing are going to do? Sit at home and slowly go bankrupt…

fight this now, don’t wait.

Edited December 2, 2021 by thplinth

[Orraloon]

12 minutes ago, thplinth said:

I grew up in times where riots were fairly regular and I never felt any compulsion to join in but if I was younger now I would be so up for a riot it is shocking to me. People should be tearing the joint apart at this point. And I hope they do.

What do they think all these people they are ostracizing are going to do? Sit at home and slowly go bankrupt…

fight this now, don’t wait.

They are hoping these people will get vaccinated which is the whole point of the exercise.

If they decide to riot instead then we will see what happens.

[kumnio]

4 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Germany bans the great unvaccinated from pubs and restaurants, non essential shops, cinemas and other leisure facilities.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2021/12/02/germany-announces-a-lockdown-for-its-unvaccinated

Personally, I think this is outrageous, its a really stupid thing to do, and will alienate millions.

[Morrisandmoo]

This is all going to end in tears. 

I'm sick hearing folk moan about Brexit and trump as it is. 

That will be nothing compared to the politics we get if we keep up with this totalitarian shite. 

Hopefully we are done copying the EU after the vaccine passport carry on. 

[Morrisandmoo]

4 hours ago, phart said:

It's trying to balance the rights of competing interests for example

Cancer patients have the right to get operation on their cancers but those rights are curtailed by the rights of people not to get vaccinated.

Navigating between competing rights is very hard.

I agree with what your point - it is hard. But that guy is part of the problem.

Once we are all vaccinated then who are we going to blame then. Folk are so divisive and hateful man. 

That being said, in this case it's not hard. It is a stupid measure that will cause lots of societal harm and do no good whatsoever. I feel I've said this about something before...

[phart]

It'll end in tears for someone whatever is done. either people waiting on life saving surgery etc die waiting on it, or the collapse of the health care system, or it ends in tears for folk not wanting to get vaccinated who are then excluded from large parts of society.

Unless anyone has a plan to mitigate both scenarios simultaenously. Beyond going into denial that's the choice, but it is exactly what is starting to happen if you look at the data in some countries.

Polls are showing some sorts of measures are a popular choice as well. Although banning a large minotiry of society from participating seems extreme.  Pretty shit that folk are dying cause there's no space in hospitals either though as well.

[phart]

Anyway let's see who ends up in the streets fighting for freedom and who keeps moaning on the net about it. That way actions can be the barometer of how seriously folk really take it beyond internet rhetoric.

once the online disinhibition effect coefficient is removed from the equation you can see what the equation really spits out.

[phart]

Looking at the numbers Austria vaccination rate has increased by a factor of 15 since their mandate.

1000 a day pre-mandate to 15.5k a day in the last week.

The mandate even has a majority of support in polls, which I found surprising. I'd not vote for compulsory vaccination just doesn't sit right.

I wonder how they should triage medical resources though, what's the priority? 

[phart]

 

[kumnio]

1 hour ago, phart said:

I wonder how they should triage medical resources though, what's the priority? 

Thats the killer issue, in more ways than one.

'Regular' medical treatments needs to be ramped up to at least the normal levels, but probably increased significantly to catch up with the backlog of the last two years. But you can't tell Covid patients that they are getting screwed over going forward. Whatever decision is taken, it will be wrong for so many people. Theres no possible positive route.

Every so often in history something happens that affects the world in a momentous way, and Covid is the biggest issue since WWII IMO. We are two years into a complete shitshow and we have no idea when it will end, we don't even have a concept of a viable exit strategy. Its genuinely depressing that this is still controlling our lives.

[phart]

7 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Thats the killer issue, in more ways than one.

'Regular' medical treatments needs to be ramped up to at least the normal levels, but probably increased significantly to catch up with the backlog of the last two years. But you can't tell Covid patients that they are getting screwed over going forward. Whatever decision is taken, it will be wrong for so many people. Theres no possible positive route.

Every so often in history something happens that affects the world in a momentous way, and Covid is the biggest issue since WWII IMO. We are two years into a complete shitshow and we have no idea when it will end, we don't even have a concept of a viable exit strategy. Its genuinely depressing that this is still controlling our lives.

My favourite author wrote this on February 10th 2020, although i didn't see it till a March.

Personally, given the way Chinese authorities bungled the outbreak at the start, and given the alarming tendency of the WHO and CDC to communicate only the most optimistic appraisals of 2019-nCoV, I think this will be the biggest thing to hit humanity since World War II.

For the critically minded, most of the estimates referenced above can be found agreggated here. There’s countless caveats, of course, including the mutability 2019-nCoV itself, which could, like SARS, become less lethal over time. But don’t be lulled by calm-at-all-costs bureaucrats or the nothing-to-see-here Wall Street Bulls: the stakes may not be apocalyptic, but they are civilizational.

Edited December 2, 2021 by phart

[thplinth]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we should have let it just run its course. Still should.

[kumnio]

Im no economist, and have no idea of the consequences, but if we do get out of this, Id be in favour of every country just defaulting on debts to medical companies. Most other debt as well, fuck its lets see the apocalypse after we just avoided it...

Again, Im no expert, but the west needs to take back manufacturing, and be less reliant on China for almost everything. It will be interesting seeing where we are in 15-20 years, but things need to change massively. If prices go up, then tough, there has to be greater self reliance, or at least trust worthy compatriots, a big trading block of fellow European countries for example would be a good idea.

If we, well the world, didn't have Nuclear weapons, we would probably be at war right now. I used to think the world was improving, but I think its a steady decline for the foreseeable future.

[phart]

16 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Im no economist, and have no idea of the consequences, but if we do get out of this, Id be in favour of every country just defaulting on debts to medical companies. Most other debt as well, fuck its lets see the apocalypse after we just avoided it...

Again, Im no expert, but the west needs to take back manufacturing, and be less reliant on China for almost everything. It will be interesting seeing where we are in 15-20 years, but things need to change massively. If prices go up, then tough, there has to be greater self reliance, or at least trust worthy compatriots, a big trading block of fellow European countries for example would be a good idea.

If we, well the world, didn't have Nuclear weapons, we would probably be at war right now. I used to think the world was improving, but I think its a steady decline for the foreseeable future.

I was listening to a short clip of Jon Stewart and he was pointing out when he was growing up all the best people were getting killed and there was a long-term war in going on in Vietnam. His parents grew up during the depression then world war II.

So it just feels like the worst of times at the moment, although it is pretty bad for a lot of folk.

I'd vote for defaulting on medical shit, the public funds a lot of research anyway.

[phart]

 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by phart

[Lamia]

11 hours ago, phart said:

It'll end in tears for someone whatever is done. either people waiting on life saving surgery etc die waiting on it, or the collapse of the health care system, or it ends in tears for folk not wanting to get vaccinated who are then excluded from large parts of society.

 

If none of us got vaccinated we would all be excluded from these things because we couldn't open up society. The unvaccinated are reaping the benefits of the actions of the vaccinated

[phart]

 

[phart]

2 minutes ago, Lamia said:

If none of us got vaccinated we would all be excluded from these things because we couldn't open up society. The unvaccinated are reaping the benefits of the actions of the vaccinated

I've been speaking to some German friends and they're saying it is an expansion of the "3 G's" system already in place it's been operating in some places federally with success and got expanded. You can use vaccine certificate, proof of negative test or had covid before as a passport, they have a 2G system where it is only vaccinated and recovered that count the PCR test becomes invalid. They trigger at particular hospitalisation thresholds. They're hospital rates are high enough to trigger the 2G system.

As posted above they're reading the tea leaves about the future and getting worried. They're health service is creaking, folk are dying for want of medical resources and they're having to triage. The effectiveness of the vaccine against (omicron excluded as not enough data) severe outcomes is demonstrated above as well.

Austria implemented it and got a 15 times greater vaccination rate.

It's a wild time indeed.