Coronavirus

[phart]

15 hours ago, jailender said:

Why has Scotland got 9 of the areas with the highest rates per 100,000 in the top 20 places in Europe, and the rest of Uk has none?

I don't know, some opinions/options though

England had their peaks earlier as they reduced restrictions earlier.  Scotland had the lowest case rate adjusted for capita for a while and it's only now just went passed England. In antibody testing Scotland had 10% less than the other 3 UK nations as a result of the lower cases.

Loads of other confounders like more transmission events inside, weather affecting them, how close together everyone in the central belt is etc.

[phart]

1 hour ago, Och Aye said:

If I was a teenager/20's I would have had double jag and had my GP by the throat til he gave me a vaccination certificate by now. Nothing would have put at risk me getting out at the weekend at that age! It'll have the desired effect of getting most under 30's vaccinated. 

 

[Och Aye]

28 minutes ago, phart said:

 

Yes i know it'll have zero effect on the spread. Just saying I'd have went along with anything to get out on the lash at that age. Imagine most youngsters will have the same mindset nowadays. Wonder how much forged vaccination certificates will be going for 🤔

Edited September 2, 2021 by Och Aye

[ThistleWhistle]

Hadn't paid much attention in ages being honest but flicking this morning saw a bit on the Beeb with Prof. Calum Semple who specialises in children's health/ outbreak medicine.  Not sure if he is on the JCVI but he was suggesting one of the key dichotomies they're challenged with in authorising vaccine for the 12-15/16 age bracket is basically an ethical one.  Essentially they'd be asking this age group to take on the risk of side effects where they themselves are unlikely to gain particularly from it but instead doing it for the benefit of society as a whole.

     

[phart]

36 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

Yes i know it'll have zero effect on the spread. Just saying I'd have went along with anything to get out on the lash at that age. Imagine most youngsters will have the same mindset nowadays. Wonder how much forged vaccination certificates will be going for 🤔

The post was just highlighting that when France introduced the health pass uptake of the vaccine shot up. Not making a comment on spread etc.

[phart]

14 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Hadn't paid much attention in ages being honest but flicking this morning saw a bit on the Beeb with Prof. Calum Semple who specialises in children's health/ outbreak medicine.  Not sure if he is on the JCVI but he was suggesting one of the key dichotomies they're challenged with in authorising vaccine for the 12-15/16 age bracket is basically an ethical one.  Essentially they'd be asking this age group to take on the risk of side effects where they themselves are unlikely to gain particularly from it but instead doing it for the benefit of society as a whole.

     

Yeah and then factor in disruption to education and a few other factors and you suddenly have an equation which has no clear solution at all.

How do you go about even trying to say what the right answer is...Beyond me.

[aaid]

4 minutes ago, phart said:

The post was just highlighting that when France introduced the health pass uptake of the vaccine shot up. Not making a comment on spread etc.

I saw something last night to the effect that there had been very low take up of the vaccine amongst professional footballers.  I’d have thought that clubs would’ve been very keen to get their players vaccinated if only to avoid them missing games.

[ThistleWhistle]

2 minutes ago, phart said:

Yeah and then factor in disruption to education and a few other factors and you suddenly have an equation which has no clear solution at all.

How do you go about even trying to say what the right answer is...Beyond me.

Totally - It's a separate argument as to whether they should be even having the discussion given it would seem the possible 'wins' from it could be considerably higher in increasing capacity available worldwide rather than developed countries bashing it into younger age groups.  

The other thing is on this scenario though I could probably be brought around to understanding it being for the benefit of wider society at a push.  However, totally hypocritically if my own kid fell into that age range would likely say 'fuck that!' unless the virus developed to a point the risk to her significantly outweighed the side effects.

Another part is should we instead just letting kids build up a natural defence to it now in case this thing gets worse in the future in terms of impacting them?  I'd be relatively comfortable if my 6 year old got it from it firing through a class of 25 snotty nosed kids but it'd be a tough ask to say to the teacher 'you're double jagged - strap in it's about get bumpy!' 

    

[Scotty CTA]

20 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Vaccine passports on their way...

We have to be double-vaccinated here by September 22nd (or it'll be hard to go out and do anything).

(Eleven days after the 20th (9+11) anniversary of 9/11.)

It's like a run through for administering the mark of the beast.

[thplinth]

2 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

We have to be double-vaccinated here by September 22nd (or it'll be hard to go out and do anything).

(Eleven days after the 20th (9+11) anniversary of 9/11.)

It's like a run through for administering the mark of the beast.

What do you mean double vaccinated? You already had two jabs right?

Do you mean more jabs on top of those two?

edit: I wondered what you meant at the time, you said you had AZ then pfizer I think... so you have had 4 jabs in total now?

Edited September 2, 2021 by thplinth

[Morrisandmoo]

4 hours ago, phart said:

 

I could understand the argument more if we lived in France and had 50% to 60% vaccine take up. However, we have 91% and will get to 95%.

It's not possible for the French experience to be replicated here (in case people are drawing comparisons). The potential benefits are much lower, while the ethical cost remains high. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Morrisandmoo

[phart]

14 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I could understand the argument more if we lived in France and had 50% to 60% vaccine take up. However, we have 91% and will get to 95%.

It's not possible for the French experience to be replicated here (in case people are drawing comparisons). The potential benefits are much lower, while the ethical cost remains high. 

Using the same metric as that tweet we're at 75.2%. France between 70% and 71%. by end of August 2021

The calculating method is across the top of the graph.

Edited September 2, 2021 by phart

[Morrisandmoo]

1 hour ago, phart said:

Using the same metric as that tweet we're at 75.2%. France between 70% and 71%. by end of August 2021

The calculating method is across the top of the graph.

Makes sense.

We are at 75% without a passport, with the majority of the 25% being people who are not eligble for a vaccine. When correcting for this we are at 91% vs eligible persons. 

France were at c55% with significant vaccine hesitancy reported, when they announced the passport. Roughly speaking that converts to 70% of eligible persons. 

Significantly different circumstances.

[Morrisandmoo]

By significantly different circumstances - I mean they had a lot to gain, while we have little to gain

[Scotty CTA]

4 hours ago, thplinth said:

What do you mean double vaccinated? You already had two jabs right?

Do you mean more jabs on top of those two?

edit: I wondered what you meant at the time, you said you had AZ then pfizer I think... so you have had 4 jabs in total now?

No, just the one AZ and the one Pfizer.

I mixed my vaccines.

I have been vaccinated twice (or double-vaccinated).

You qualify for a vaccination passport here once you have received your 2 jabs or have been double-vaccinated (as they say here).

[thplinth]

11 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

No, just the one AZ and the one Pfizer.

I mixed my vaccines.

I have been vaccinated twice (or double-vaccinated).

You qualify for a vaccination passport here once you have received your 2 jabs or have been double-vaccinated (as they say here).

Jesus that strikes me as a bit odd. One is a vector vaccine and the other one of the mrna jobs. Very surprised they just mix them up and do not complete the course with one or the other.

--------------

Anyway I am curious as to how the narrative is being changed yet again to explain this little doozy. Dearie me...

Israel has become the Covid capital of the world despite leading the charge on vaccines, in a clear warning sign that Britain, the US and other highly-immunised nations are still vulnerable to another wave.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/israel-is-now-the-worlds-covid-hotspot-despite-leading-jab-charge/ar-AAO1odp

 

Check out the last couple of days... holy-shamoley

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/

Edited September 3, 2021 by thplinth

[thplinth]

So I think it is fair to say these vaccines (in Israel at least) are 'leaky' as fuck. No way to argue against that at this point.

So are we seeing ever increasing hotter mutations appearing? Well are we?

Are they now doubling down on the leaky vaccinations with more leaky vaccinations?

Well this is looking great. 😀

The speed all this is happening is breathtaking, I thought it would take longer at least. Remember Spanish Flu had essentially fizzled out in a year. In a totally unvaccinated population... It ain't happening here is it. Why is that then?

The road to hell is indeed paved by the Dunning-Kruger Tarmac Company. Maybe... 

Edited September 3, 2021 by thplinth

[phart]

I'll let the experts speak rathen than my own "research".

Edited September 3, 2021 by phart

[McTeeko]

Thplinth, I’m enjoying your digging. Keep it up. 
 

It’s good to know others are asking questions rather than being completely brainwashed with the majority 👍🏼

[thplinth]

1 hour ago, McTeeko said:

Thplinth, I’m enjoying your digging. Keep it up. 
 

It’s good to know others are asking questions rather than being completely brainwashed with the majority 👍🏼

Will do. I am not on the wind-up here (well mostly at least). This is a major concern here now.

Look at the deceptive way things are now being described. The vaccines are 'fading' and 'waning', wearing-off and losing their potency...

FFS these vaccines are barely out. We have only really just completed vaccinating all those willing to take them. They are brand new. They could hardly be any newer. 

The vaccines are not fading nor waning. That is utter bullshit. The virus is getting hotter. 

This was the prediction of what would happen if you mass vaccinated in the middle of a raging pandemic with 'leaky' vaccines. So we should be keeping a serious eye on it. If it keeps getting hotter and hotter we have to stop the vaccinations and 'face the music'. As bad as that will be it will be better than what faces us if we don't.

Unfortunately even if it becomes obvious we should stop, they are so 'invested' in vaccines they will not stop, they will drive us right off the cliff.

IMO the narrative is now constantly changing to fit around uncomfortable 'facts on the ground'. It really does look like they are making it up as they go along to me. There is so much money involved here now as well, it is very dark in places. Scotty has shown great restraint on this thread 😀 (and rightly so) but there are things going on (on the back of the pandemic) that are curious to say the least. And we still don't really know where this fucking thing really came from...

I genuinely hope all my (fledgling) concerns are totally and completely wrong.

Edited September 3, 2021 by thplinth

[phart]

If the vaccine is getting "hotter" why isn't it showing up in the genomic sequencing?

As I said the experts on twitter stated it would wane at the time. As i've shown by posting their tweets at the time.  This was last november and immunologists were talking about it.

Back in January they predicted the confusion in us lay-people not understanding the situation or cause they got their info from media that did a bad job of explaining it. (this back in January)

The author os the "chicken vaccine hotter" paper also speaks in the same way about reduction in transmission

Joe Rogan is getting this completely wrong,” says Andrew Read, professor of biology and entomology at Pennsylvania State. “He's taking very careful work about evolutionary scenarios of the future, and from that, erroneously concluding that people should not be vaccinated now.”

Rogan quotes a line from the paper’s abstract out of context: “Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission could thus allow very virulent strains to circulate in a population.”

Read responds: “We're talking a very different virus and very different vaccines. The details in biology really matter a lot. The chicken vaccines we worked with, the first-generation vaccine, definitely reduced disease, severity and death.” But unlike the COVID mRNA vaccines, the chicken vaccine “didn't stop transmission at all.” And this is one of the key differences between what was being studied in Read’s paper and our current situation with the global pandemic. “Those [vaccinated] chickens just kept churning out the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks.” Again, this is a key difference. “It’s a very different virus from SARS-2. A key issue here is transmissibility.”

The Delta variant emerged from populations who lacked access to vaccines.

“Delta came in India where there was crazy amounts of transmission, not amongst the vaccinated, but amongst the unvaccinated. That's what we need to stop. The unvaccinated need to either get vaccinated or socially distance, mask up, stopping transmission. That's the trick here.” 

Anyway no point us uneducated non--immunologists going on about it, we'll see what happens. That's what the lead author os the study says.

[phart]

Interestingly Joe Rogan got Covid positive test and the first thing he did was run to the doctors and get steriods and monoclonal antbodies etc. Which is why it is better to look at folks actions and not their words like , vitamin D and immune system is all you need bro.

[phart]

The fixation with Israel is a product of innumeracy and statistical ignorance. Which is why these "hotter viruses" aren't showing up in experiment/reality, i.e. genomic sequencing , it's cause at the moment they don't exist.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by phart

[phart]

I now know how @biffer felt having to spend two weeks explaining the Earth didn't used to be tiny and it hasn't been growing for hundreds of millions of years and the dinosaurs weren't that big cause the earth was tiny in the past and therefore had less gravity so that made them bigger. All cause of one 30 minute youtube video thplinth had watched.

The hot vaccine theory is a product of a Joe Rogan tweet and even the guy who wrote the paper screaming from the rooftops that you dumbfucks are reading it wrong isn't enough to get the derp train off the tracks so I guess i'm pissing against the wind myself here. So one final rebuttal using the words of immunologists and then onto spending my own time more productively.

Edited September 3, 2021 by phart

[Orraloon]

4 hours ago, phart said:

Interestingly Joe Rogan got Covid positive test and the first thing he did was run to the doctors and get steriods and monoclonal antbodies etc. Which is why it is better to look at folks actions and not their words like , vitamin D and immune system is all you need bro.

And a hefty dose of chloroquine. 😉