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As a side note given what's been posted previously I wanted everyone to know that we buried my mum today. There were just four of us at the cemetery, practising social distancing. It was surreal and u

I share your pain mate. 5am this morning I lost my father in law to this awful disease. Fought like a lion to try and hang on but it was a battle he couldn't win. You have my deepest sympathy mate. St

Not as strange as your tedious boring bastard routine 

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59 minutes ago, Lamia said:

So far that is one guy's opinion without any data to back it up. He says we might get to see the data later today. Why not just release the data before or at least at the same time as the press release. 

 

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Even if there is, let’s get this into context. If we gave AZ to everyone in Scotland there would only be two or three cases on the numbers the MHRA has seen so far in the UK. 
The contraceptive pill has a rate many times that.

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4 hours ago, biffer said:

Even if there is, let’s get this into context. If we gave AZ to everyone in Scotland there would only be two or three cases on the numbers the MHRA has seen so far in the UK. 
The contraceptive pill has a rate many times that.

My friend is Norwegian and she was saying they reckon the pill might be playing a compounding affect with the vaccine as well. I'm still certainly taking it. As the benefits far outweigh the risks.

On a positive note my gran got her 2nd one today.

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1 hour ago, phart said:

My friend is Norwegian and she was saying they reckon the pill might be playing a compounding affect with the vaccine as well. I'm still certainly taking it. As the benefits far outweigh the risks.

On a positive note my gran got her 2nd one today.

I had my first one yesterday.

Probably worth noting you're far more likely to have an anaphylactic reaction to a vaccine than this clotting side effect. When you're setting out to vaccinate billions, very rare side effects will crop up. Monitor and take a balanced, risk based approach, which is what the EMA and MHRA seem to have done. 

Let's be absolutely honest here, Under30s being vaccinated is substantially for public health purposes, to prevent spread and outbreaks to protect the wider population. 

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Ontario going into full lockdown at midnight. Its out of control here now, well, the variant. 3,000 new cases yesterday alone. Unreal...

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3 hours ago, biffer said:

Let's be absolutely honest here, Under30s being vaccinated is substantially for public health purposes, to prevent spread and outbreaks to protect the wider population. 

Yeah I think that's right and probably the bit where I'm not that comfortable. Not sure how I would feel if there were more deaths in a vaccinated 18-30 population vs an un-vacinated group. The whole response to the pandemic has completely fucked over young people, but this (along with vaccine passports) would be a step too far for me. 

We used to have principles where we protected children and young people (and our future). Now we're almost prepared to kill (a few of) them to save our own skins.

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Didn't we used to draft young folk to fight loads of wars.  Then we bombed the shit out of young folk in our endless wars since then.

I'd not get dewy eyes about our principles.

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10 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Yeah I think that's right and probably the bit where I'm not that comfortable. Not sure how I would feel if there were more deaths in a vaccinated 18-30 population vs an un-vacinated group. The whole response to the pandemic has completely fucked over young people, but this (along with vaccine passports) would be a step too far for me. 

We used to have principles where we protected children and young people (and our future). Now we're almost prepared to kill (a few of) them to save our own skins.

This would be a bit of an oversimplification of the situation.
 

The more active infections in the population, this increases the exposure risk for 20-29’s (and others). This is captured in the modelling on the previous post. The way to reduce the number of infections is via vaccine. It’s similar to any other vaccine programme that individuals have a responsibility to the herd.
 

The fact that under 30’s are likely to be offered an alternative vaccine is hopefully helpful anyway in obtaining the required uptake. 

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21 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Yeah I think that's right and probably the bit where I'm not that comfortable. Not sure how I would feel if there were more deaths in a vaccinated 18-30 population vs an un-vacinated group. The whole response to the pandemic has completely fucked over young people, but this (along with vaccine passports) would be a step too far for me. 

We used to have principles where we protected children and young people (and our future). Now we're almost prepared to kill (a few of) them to save our own skins.

Nobody is forcing anybody to be vaccinated. It's entirely voluntary. If anybody doesn't want it they just have to say "no thanks".

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45 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Nobody is forcing anybody to be vaccinated. It's entirely voluntary. If anybody doesn't want it they just have to say "no thanks".

Don't think I said anybody is being forced? 

Merely that I wouldn't be comfortable with a policy which resulted in more young people being killed by a vaccine than were protected by it? I certainly would be even less comfortable if that policy was reinforced by a vaccine passport which sought to exclude that group from society should they choose not to comply with said programme.

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1 hour ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Yeah I think that's right and probably the bit where I'm not that comfortable. Not sure how I would feel if there were more deaths in a vaccinated 18-30 population vs an un-vacinated group. The whole response to the pandemic has completely fucked over young people, but this (along with vaccine passports) would be a step too far for me. 

We used to have principles where we protected children and young people (and our future). Now we're almost prepared to kill (a few of) them to save our own skins.

Some of them may prefer not to lose a parent!

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1 hour ago, AlfieMoon said:

This would be a bit of an oversimplification of the situation.
 

The more active infections in the population, this increases the exposure risk for 20-29’s (and others). This is captured in the modelling on the previous post. The way to reduce the number of infections is via vaccine. It’s similar to any other vaccine programme that individuals have a responsibility to the herd.
 

The fact that under 30’s are likely to be offered an alternative vaccine is hopefully helpful anyway in obtaining the required uptake. 

Yeah.

Hopefully, Germany (and others) concerns prove unfounded and there are no serious side effects from this vaccine. My worry is we've been a bit fundamentalist here (in the UK) and been absolutely firm in the view that this vaccine has been suitably tested, all side effects understood and we we are committed to vaccinating the whole adult population, no matter what. That view is becoming flakier by the day and it undermines confidence in what we are trying to do if it proves that was incorrect. 

Anyway, as you say at least we are now offering alternatives to under-30s and not plouging on with what might have been a mistake. 

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18 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Don't think I said anybody is being forced? 

Merely that I wouldn't be comfortable with a policy which resulted in more young people being killed by a vaccine than were protected by it? I certainly would be even less comfortable if that policy was reinforced by a vaccine passport which sought to exclude that group from society should they choose not to comply with said programme.


My thoughts on the Covid passports are that they’re necessary to a point. As much as we can’t be a 2 tier society or force people to have a vaccine, we equally can’t ignore the reality of what is unfolding around us. 
 

If vaccine passports help get control of the situation then it’s reasonable as a measure. There should however be a defined end goal to try and make it time-bound for as short a time as possible. 

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16 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:


My thoughts on the Covid passports are that they’re necessary to a point. As much as we can’t be a 2 tier society or force people to have a vaccine, we equally can’t ignore the reality of what is unfolding around us. 
 

If vaccine passports help get control of the situation then it’s reasonable as a measure. There should however be a defined end goal to try and make it time-bound for as short a time as possible. 

What's unfolding is 90% take up rate of the vaccine (significantly higher than other vaccination campaigns) and some of the lowest mortality rates in the history of mankind. We don't, in fact, need the passport to gain good levels of herd immunity or get to acceptable overall mortality rates in the community. The passport, instead, is there to target the 5%-10% as a punitive measure, resulting in the exclusion of poor and black people from society. 

You need to look through the form to the actual impact. It's an unnecessary and horribly discriminatory policy, which will have close to zero efficacy in the field - a completely disproportionate negative societal impact for marginal public health benefit. We cannot be so narrow-minded.

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My 16 year old neice got the blue envelope and we still don't know why. Told just to keep the appointment when her mum enquired as no health issues. Went on a day it was AstraZeneca vaccine was told no no you can't have that one at your age. Join the queue at the bottom isle for Pfizer vaccination. This was 3 weeks ago. 

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12 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Don't think I said anybody is being forced? 

Merely that I wouldn't be comfortable with a policy which resulted in more young people being killed by a vaccine than were protected by it? I certainly would be even less comfortable if that policy was reinforced by a vaccine passport which sought to exclude that group from society should they choose not to comply with said programme.

Any vaccine (or any other medicine) would be withdrawn long before it got to that stage. 

I agree with you on vaccine passports. I am totally against them for anything other than foreign travel. And even that should be for essential purposes only, IMO.

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3 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Any vaccine (or any other medicine) would be withdrawn long before it got to that stage. 

I agree with you on vaccine passports. I am totally against them for anything other than foreign travel. And even that should be for essential purposes only, IMO.

We are just about at that stage though are we not? Based on current infection levels more young people would die (or become severely ill) as a result of taking the AZ vaccine than would be protected by it (if above graphics are correct). 

Which I don't think is what young people would have expected to be true, based on the reported severity of covid and the safeness of the vaccine. 

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59 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

We are just about at that stage though are we not? Based on current infection levels more young people would die (or become severely ill) as a result of taking the AZ vaccine than would be protected by it (if above graphics are correct). 

Which I don't think is what young people would have expected to be true, based on the reported severity of covid and the safeness of the vaccine. 

No we are not. Nothing like it. If you believe that you are being fed bullshit.

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