Coronavirus

[phart]

more info on the thinking behind the change to vaccines.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55503739

[JohnWh]

 

[phart]

 

[phart]

 

[Lamia]

They have clearly made the decision because they are in panic. That is what worries me. It is a gamble which I sincerely hope pays off. If not its just a few "vulnerable"  people and that will suffer! 🤨

 

I just want some proper scrutiny! 

 

[Orraloon]

If I was in the "at risk" category I would feel safer if myself and most of the folk around me had 50% immunity, than I would if I had a 95% chance of immunity and those around me had none. 

The data for this change is available for the AZ vaccine and the decision to make the same change for the Pfizer vaccine carries a wee bit more risk. Public health bodies have to weigh up the risk to benefit for the population as a whole. It's understandable that individuals who have had the first dose would also like to get the 2nd dose, in a timely manner, to give them an even higher chance of immunity. But public health decision makers can't think about it from an individual's point of view, they have to consider the population as a whole. There are loads of factors involved in making this decision. 

It's a big decision. I hope it works. If it does work, we may look back with hindsight on this as another one of those decisions that could have been made sooner? 

 

[Lamia]

3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

There are loads of factors involved in making this decision. 

 

 

And this is what worries me - we can all see the effects of the disastrous decision making so far! 

[Orraloon]

One thing that concerns me much more than this decision is that a lot folk who get vaccinated might think that makes them immune. Even getting two doses of the Pfizer vaccine doesn't give immunity. What all vaccines do is reduce the risk of becoming infected. We still don't know by how much that risk will be reduced. There will still be significant risk of vaccinated individuals becoming infected and some of them will die. With effective vaccines the numbers will be much lower than would otherwise have been but they won't be zero. I'm not sure everybody understands this. 

[phart]

There doesn't seem to be any consensus on the change of the tactics for vaccination.

In fact the lines seem to be drawn by scientists in the political sphere and academics, in the instances i've seen.

Seems panic led, they know loads of folk no longer going to comply, new modelling indicating the new variant is really quite a bit more transmissable, health service really creaking in a few places with a demoralised and exhausted staff base.

Seems like a gamble

[Orraloon]

28 minutes ago, phart said:

There doesn't seem to be any consensus on the change of the tactics for vaccination.

In fact the lines seem to be drawn by scientists in the political sphere and academics, in the instances i've seen.

Seems panic led, they know loads of folk no longer going to comply, new modelling indicating the new variant is really quite a bit more transmissable, health service really creaking in a few places with a demoralised and exhausted staff base.

Seems like a gamble

It is a gamble. I think the gamble is mainly with the BioNtech/Pfizer vaccine. That one is probably going to be given to a much smaller proportion of the UK population than the AZ one. So, I think that, dampens the gamble a wee bit. It becomes a bigger problem if they can't even get enough doses to keep up with the 12 week gap, which I think is a distinct possibility. The supply chain is obviously very fragile.

Getting the vaccines ready and approved is hugely positive but the downside is that, I think, that has encouraged even more folk into non compliance. And there were far too many of them before. The new more infectious variant emerging at the same time as folk getting more complacent seems to have worked out perfectly for the virus. Not so much for us though.

 

 

[Lamia]

3 hours ago, Orraloon said:

One thing that concerns me much more than this decision is that a lot folk who get vaccinated might think that makes them immune. Even getting two doses of the Pfizer vaccine doesn't give immunity. What all vaccines do is reduce the risk of becoming infected. We still don't know by how much that risk will be reduced. There will still be significant risk of vaccinated individuals becoming infected and some of them will die. With effective vaccines the numbers will be much lower than would otherwise have been but they won't be zero. I'm not sure everybody understands this. 

That worries me significantly too. I am hoping we find t hat it does reduce transmission at least but if it doesn't this could be a significant issue

[Lamia]

1 hour ago, phart said:

There doesn't seem to be any consensus on the change of the tactics for vaccination.

In fact the lines seem to be drawn by scientists in the political sphere and academics, in the instances i've seen.

Seems panic led, they know loads of folk no longer going to comply, new modelling indicating the new variant is really quite a bit more transmissable, health service really creaking in a few places with a demoralised and exhausted staff base.

Seems like a gamble

That is my assessment too.

[JohnWh]

Has anyone else seen Doomsday 2008?  Creepy, considering what we are going through now.  Have to say, I'd never seen or heard of it before now.  Not a movie buff though.

"In 2008, an unknown killer virus, known as the "Reaper Virus", has infected the country of Scotland. Unable to contain the outbreak or cure the infected, the British government builds a massive 30-foot wall that isolated Scotland from the rest of Great Britain. Whilst the quarantine was deemed a success, the extreme method employed by the government destroys diplomatic and economic relations between the UK and the rest of the world. Now a pariah state, the UK collapses into a dystopia, rife with unemployment, civil unrest and extreme economic turmoil."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_(2008_film)

 

 

 

[JohnWh]

Just saying from my perspective and not to offend anyone, but no-one I know (which is global) or anyone they know, have gotten terribly ill or even died from this supposed deadly virus.  It seems to me that coronavirus is just like the basic cold/flu we always have had and being hyped for an agenda to change the whole fabric of society.  If you look into the PCR test and the inventor of it, Kary Mullis, he said that it could be used to find any virus alive or dead if you tried hard enough.  Anthony Fauci said if there were more than so many rounds/amplifications in the test you would find something.  They are taking away all our freedoms based on a lot of false positive tests.  I hope this bothers some people.  I also know that many will stay asleep.

[JohnWh]

 

[JohnWh]

ok ... I see confused face emoticons, fair enough,  can deal with that.  Folks, please, let's have an honest discussion of what is going on and being done in our Country please?  Take care.

 

 

 

[kumnio]

I didn’t give you a smiley face, but what freedoms have we lost?

Ive had 3 PCR tests for travel purposes, it kinda makes sense that they can be changed to check for other diseases, does it not?

[JohnWh]

3 minutes ago, kumnio said:

I didn’t give you a smiley face, but what freedoms have we lost?

Ive had 3 PCR tests for travel purposes, it kinda makes sense that they can be changed to check for other diseases, does it not?

can't even meet or visit relatives?  Edit: unless outdoors freezing to death.

Edited January 2, 2021 by JohnWh

[kumnio]

Just now, JohnWh said:

can't even meet or visit relatives?  

You were allowed to meet in groups of up to six people from two households were you not?

[JohnWh]

1 minute ago, kumnio said:

You were allowed to meet in groups of up to six people from two households were you not?

I'm sure you will be loving your servitude in the new normal Herr

[kumnio]

Just now, JohnWh said:

I'm sure you will be loving your servitude in the new normal Herr

So one question and that’s your response, fucking clown 👍

[JohnWh]

1 minute ago, kumnio said:

So one question and that’s your response, fucking clown 👍

Lol

[JohnWh]

love this guy from our very own.  Swears like a trooper but has some wisdom (maybe not the true wisdom but at least he is not being a total sheople)

 

 

[ErsatzThistle]

Hmmmm who to trust ?

Medical science whose worth is there for all to see and from which I have reaped the benefits of my whole life.

Or some wacky nutcase conspiracy theorist from off the internet.

It's a tough one alright. 

[JohnWh]

based on the video by 'that's life but not as we know it' on this topic:

Three north-east MSPs have welcomed funding that will benefit nurseries in the region.

Early Learning and Childcare (ELC) settings are being urged to apply for Scottish Government grant funding which will help children take part in outdoor learning no matter the weather.

The government has said it will commit £1m to nurseries and other education providers to buy children warm winter clothes to allow them to play outside.

It follows as the outlets are encouraged to have children outside to help stop the spread of Covid-19.

Aberdeen Central MSP Kevin Stewart, Aberdeenshire East MSP Gillian Martin and Banffshire and Buchan Coast MSP Stewart Stevenson have welcomed the initiative.

Mr Stewart said: “This £1 million commitment from the Scottish Government will be absolutely vital to children and families across Aberdeen and the north-east  – outdoor play is an incredibly important aspect of any child’s learning and development, so it is extremely important that we can maintain that during the current pandemic.”

Ms Martin said: “No child should go without winter clothing when it gets colder and that is why the Scottish Government is plugging the gap for parents and ELC settings that are unable to provide clothing.”

Mr Stevenson added: “I urge all nurseries and ELC centres in Aberdeen to apply for their share of the £1m funding when it opens in January 2021 to ensure no child goes without an extremely important stage of their learning.”

 

Utter madness.  People have lost their minds.   Are you going to let your child sit outside "no matter the weather".  I would call you a child abuser. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by JohnWh