Coronavirus

[ger intae them]

I love a good paranoid schizo conspiracy…….. so what’s it really about then? I am interested….. the lizard caliphate is likely, but do me favour and leave out the rogan regurgitation.

[McTeeko]

8 hours ago, ger intae them said:

I love a good paranoid schizo conspiracy…….. so what’s it really about then? I am interested….. the lizard caliphate is likely, but do me favour and leave out the rogan regurgitation.

When people come on this thread and state they’re too scared to go on a park run and get jumpy when a couple of kids get too close in the post office queue, you know they’re too far gone. 
Most are at one end of the spectrum, I’m at the other. No point discussing it as we’re at polar opposites and any chat would be futile.

[vanderark14]

10 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

When people come on this thread and state they’re too scared to go on a park run and get jumpy when a couple of kids get too close in the post office queue, you know they’re too far gone. 
Most are at one end of the spectrum, I’m at the other. No point discussing it as we’re at polar opposites and any chat would be futile.

Agree with this mcteeko. There's no point discussing most subjects nowdays. Covid, climate change, football, racism, bigotry......as soon as the subject is brought up the extremists shout down any opinions

[Orraloon]

8 minutes ago, McTeeko said:

When people come on this thread and state they’re too scared to go on a park run and get jumpy when a couple of kids get too close in the post office queue, you know they’re too far gone. 
Most are at one end of the spectrum, I’m at the other. No point discussing it as we’re at polar opposites and any chat would be futile.

Folk are scared of dying or ending up in hospital. I don't see anything unusual in that. Unless you are one of the folk who don't believe people are dying?

Folk are still dying at an average rate of about 20 per day. That's the equivalent of 7000 per year in Scotland alone. The death rate is currently running at about 0.8% of people who catch it. Do you not think it makes sense to try to avoid catching it if you can? Or trying to reduce the effects if you do catch it?

 

[Orraloon]

5 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Agree with this mcteeko. There's no point discussing most subjects nowdays. Covid, climate change, football, racism, bigotry......as soon as the subject is brought up the extremists shout down any opinions

Who is trying to shout anybody down?

[thplinth]

Joe Rogan quoted the Dr in question you absolute bellends. 😀 

Pure sophistry from the usual suspects trying to make the point about Joe Rogan, this is why I love quoting him!

Worth a re-post. You are absolutely right about wasting your time. Brilliant insights from this chap above. We are right in the thick (pun intended) of it now.

Edited November 5, 2021 by thplinth

[thplinth]

Well if you want to get into 'conspiracy theories' we sure can... 😀

I posted the 2007 documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle on the COP 26 thread and I I would really recommend watching it again. It is truly shocking seeing it again in light of what is going on today. Shutting down hugely important and strategic industries based on blatant lies... There is something very wrong about all of this. Big alarm bells going off for me at this point.

It also seems very relevant and strangely familiar to what is going on with covid and the vaccines somehow. The manipulation of 'science' to push through extremely damaging and restrictive economic and social policies. Everything they do has this potentially sinister double edge to it. It can't just be a coincidence.

It is like it is the same forces exploiting and hijacking each 'crisis' to push through very self destructive policies. It indicates to me that we have a real problem with the 'elites' running the show in the West. I think the Epstein operation was just the tip of the ice berg in that regard.

Bonhoeffer nails it above and that covers many many people but the folk doing the manipulating, they know fine well what they are doing. Writing off industries with the stroke of their pens... fulminating anti-market economy theories. They sound and act increasingly like neo-communists, which is what they essentially are.

And then you have to consider the very real possibility that covid is actually a 'gain of function' bio-weapon and that is was not accidentally released. That would change the context of what they are doing now somewhat wouldn't it.

You are all in a big fight here whether you realize it or not and the stakes are huge, your freedoms. 

Now that is a conspiracy theory. 😉

[Lamia]

1 hour ago, McTeeko said:

When people come on this thread and state they’re too scared to go on a park run and get jumpy when a couple of kids get too close in the post office queue, you know they’re too far gone. 
Most are at one end of the spectrum, I’m at the other. No point discussing it as we’re at polar opposites and any chat would be futile.

😂😂😂

[phart]

The climate change models are right. You can either watch youtube documentaries or do as i did last year and spend a year learning nonlinear stochastic dynamics so you can understand the science.

Their handing out nobel prizes cause of how effective the climate change models have gotten at predicting future events. Meanwhile the climate skeptics are welching on the bets they made a decade ago.

Climate skeptic scientists are the tobacco scientists now. In fact some are the very same.

As someone said don't take criticism off someone on a subject you wouldn't take advice from them on.

On 9/21/2020 at 1:13 PM, phart said:

 

I'm basically binging this week on both topics and then forgetting they exist in favour onto stochastic dynamics and cell biology.

[Squirrelhumper]

2 hours ago, McTeeko said:

When people come on this thread and state they’re too scared to go on a park run and get jumpy when a couple of kids get too close in the post office queue, you know they’re too far gone. 
Most are at one end of the spectrum, I’m at the other. No point discussing it as we’re at polar opposites and any chat would be futile.

Maybe those folk have seen loved ones die of it? 

I'd say i'm pretty much in the middle, i've seen folk close to me die of it, i know folk who have lost family int eh 30s and 40s due to Covid. I think folk can be as cautious as they wish. Folk getting jumpy about folk being near them has zero bearing on your life, so why do you care if it's "gone to far"?

My life is pretty much back to normal. I took the vaccine, the same way i took the TB one, the Mumps one etc, saw it as a civic duty almost. We were going nowhere fast without it. 

Thankfully most the population did likewise and it allows those "at the opposite end of the spectrum" to have a fairly normal life again. 

What's futile is making vague statements with nothing to back it up and not engaging in any conversation to back up your stance. 

I don't/didn't like the lockdowns any more than the next person but at the same time, i'm not gonna let that cloud my judgement and make me think the virus wasn't very real. 

As somebody has already said, if it wasn't about the Virus, then what was it about?

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Well if you want to get into 'conspiracy theories' we sure can... 😀

I posted the 2007 documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle on the COP 26 thread and I I would really recommend watching it again. It is truly shocking seeing it again in light of what is going on today. Shutting down hugely important and strategic industries based on blatant lies... There is something very wrong about all of this. Big alarm bells going off for me at this point.

It also seems very relevant and strangely familiar to what is going on with covid and the vaccines somehow. The manipulation of 'science' to push through extremely damaging and restrictive economic and social policies. Everything they do has this potentially sinister double edge to it. It can't just be a coincidence.

It is like it is the same forces exploiting and hijacking each 'crisis' to push through very self destructive policies. It indicates to me that we have a real problem with the 'elites' running the show in the West. I think the Epstein operation was just the tip of the ice berg in that regard.

Bonhoeffer nails it above and that covers many many people but the folk doing the manipulating, they know fine well what they are doing. Writing off industries with the stroke of their pens... fulminating anti-market economy theories. They sound and act increasingly like neo-communists, which is what they essentially are.

And then you have to consider the very real possibility that covid is actually a 'gain of function' bio-weapon and that is was not accidentally released. That would change the context of what they are doing now somewhat wouldn't it.

You are all in a big fight here whether you realize it or not and the stakes are huge, your freedoms. 

Now that is a conspiracy theory. 😉

Have a lie down. 

Must be some existence being that paranoid. 

[thplinth]

52 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Have a lie down. 

Must be some existence being that paranoid. 

I don't think you get this conspiracy theory thing. Name me one that is not 'paranoid'. 😀 I offer that one up as an example of a proper one, not some tittle tattle about Joe Rogan mum's dog because he quoted something someone else said.

At the end of the day either you believe the Dr who says they are using Ivermectin and the other drugs for all those member of congress or you don't. I do and therefore I think it is hypocritical and pretty disgusting to deny it to other people. That is not a conspiracy theory.

Thinking a big pharmaceutical company will use its full 'lobbying' powers to demonise a cheap generic drug that is out of patent in favour of their own over priced fully patented drug is not being paranoid. If you don't assume that is exactly what is happening then you are more likely in danger of being a gullible mug than paranoid. Big Pharma are right up there with Big Tobacco in terms of their corporate morality.

[kumnio]

3 hours ago, McTeeko said:

When people come on this thread and state they’re too scared to go on a park run and get jumpy when a couple of kids get too close in the post office queue, you know they’re too far gone. 
Most are at one end of the spectrum, I’m at the other. No point discussing it as we’re at polar opposites and any chat would be futile.

That’s not an answer though. So what is?

[phart]

Why wasn't dexamethasone and fluvoxamine (both off patent and cheap) given the same treatment, both being promoted for use in covid. A theory needs to explain all the data points otherwise it doesn't work.

Also Covid is a political problem in the US. If 200 republican politicians take ivermectin that wouldn't surprise me considering they also took other political stances which was based on personal politics not medicine.

However we can't analyse the population sample as it's hearsay. We can analyse the open clinical trials and their methodology though and those have shown no efficacy so far.

We had the same argument with hydroxychloroquine last year and time has shown that wasn't effective.

Fool me once...

[thplinth]

Look at the delays they were happy to inflict on people getting a vaccine. They could have made the Sputnik V vaccine available long before they rolled out their own ones. But they blocked it as it was Russian.

They were quite happy to see people completely unvaccinated and dying in large numbers for months just so they could make sure it was western drug companies making all the money from the vaccines (when they finally were able to make them).

That tells you a lot about this so called 'crisis'. Now they are moving to a regime of never ending boosters and probably annual vaccinations... Gosh what a shocker.

And people think they actually give a shit about you and are doing what is best for you. FFS... I'd rather be paranoid. 😀

[kumnio]

8 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Look at the delays they were happy to inflict on people getting a vaccine. They could have made the Sputnik V vaccine available long before they rolled out their own ones. But they blocked it as it was Russian.

They were quite happy to see people completely unvaccinated and dying in large numbers for months just so they could make sure it was western drug companies making all the money from the vaccines (when they finally were able to make them).

That tells you a lot about this so called 'crisis'. Now they are moving to a regime of never ending boosters and probably annual vaccinations... Gosh what a shocker.

And people think they actually give a shit about you and are doing what is best for you. FFS... I'd rather be paranoid. 😀

But the stats show that Sputnik is a poor vaccine compared to others. 

So, is this whole thing a con? Or is Sputnik good and west is bad? What specifically should we be afraid of? 

[kumnio]

Are vaccines good or bad? You can’t have it both ways?

[thplinth]

29 minutes ago, kumnio said:

But the stats show that Sputnik is a poor vaccine compared to others. 

So, is this whole thing a con? Or is Sputnik good and west is bad? What specifically should we be afraid of? 

Sputnik is a 'good*' vaccine if not better than what we have. The Russian institute that developed it has a very good reputation. They were able to make it far quicker than we were as they had previously developed a vaccine for a similar coronavirus. So were able to replicate the method on covid19 much faster than anything we could do.

But also crucially (and this was what attracted me to that vaccine) it was therefore more more tested (not exactly but very closely) than the western vaccines they later rushed out.

From the time Sputnik was out to the time I became eligible for a vaccination was huge. I forget how long but many many months.

That was all about the money.

28 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Are vaccines good or bad? You can’t have it both ways?

*It is not as black and white as that. See the PBS article I posted above somewhere on the vaccines that they used in the poultry industry and the nightmare they have created for themselves now.

Some vaccines are what they call 'leaky' and that can lead to serious problems especially when deployed in the middle of an already raging pandemic. Our vaccines are clearly very leaky. i.e. people who are vaccinated are catching covid and transmitting covid. That is what they mean by leaky. The polio vaccines in contrast were effectively not leaky. (Again go read the article as I will do a poor job explaining it second hand.)

The fear here is in their greed for profits to make us all take unnecessary and leaky vaccines they could actually cook up a really super 'hot' version of the virus (which is what happened when they used leaky vaccines in the poultry industry).

I think humans in their greed are very capable of creating a nightmare scenario. The Sputnik example tells me they don't actually give a fuck about people dying and making money is paramount.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions but I am not sure we have even started with them (good intentions).

[Lamia]

48 minutes ago, thplinth said:

 

That tells you a lot about this so called 'crisis'. Now they are moving to a regime of never ending boosters and probably annual vaccinations... Gosh what a shocker.

 

Did you complain about the annual flu vaccine? Think we always knew it would be a regular thing so not sure why you think there has been some sort of change

Edited November 5, 2021 by Lamia

[phart]

Sputnik was authorised in Russia in August 2020 before phase III trials. It wasn't authorised cause of that. In fact there is still missing data preventing certain orginisations from approving it.

They also got caught price gouging on it

A Royal Mark Up: How an Emirati Sheikh Resells Millions of Russian Vaccines to the Developing World

The Moscow Times investigated a deal between Russia and a minor Dubai royal to supply poor countries with Sputnik V — at high prices.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/07/09/a-royal-mark-up-how-an-emirati-sheikh-resells-millions-of-russian-vaccines-to-the-developing-world-a74461

 

[Squirrelhumper]

31 minutes ago, Lamia said:

Did you complain about the annual flu vaccine? Think we always knew it would be a regular thing so not sure why you think there has been some sort of change

Exactly. 

Wasting your time arguing TBF. 

i've still to hear a creditable answer from an anti Covid vaxxer who can explain their alternative to a vaccnine. All you hear is daft soundbites like "it's about control", "not enough trials" blah blah blah. 

Funnily enough they never pop up about other vaccines over the years, just ones that do't suit them after they've been sucked down a youtube conspiracy blackhole. 

[thplinth]

Well I would not describe myself as an anti vaxxer but I think I can field that one.

Catch it, get over it, have natural immunity. Far better than any vaccine.

You know like you did for mumps, chickenpox, the measles and shit like that... remember? 😀

Oh and I had a bad dose of the flu as a kid, delirious the lot, fortunately that was back in the days you could still see a GP and get them to do a house visit even (amazing I know), never had it since and never bother with the annual jab.

So how many people were told to come back every year when they went for the vaccinations? None, so can we please just stop changing the narrative all the time, it is starting to do my nut in. 😀

The 3rd 'booster' only got introduced relatively recently after they starting saying the vaccines are 'waning' and 'fading'. (This was about 5 minutes after they were launched.) But now we all knew it was going to be an annual thing... sigh. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by thplinth

[phart]

natural immunity is what vaccines give you, it's the same mechanism.

Incidentally Mina was saying way back (i've already quoted him in this thread how waning is a thing.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by phart

[phart]

Measle vaccines reduced deaths by 84%

2.6 million deaths on average per year. Approximately 89 780 people died from measles in 2016 - mostly children under the age of 5 years.

Also the measle vaccine produces 5 fold protection because catching the measles makes you more susceptible to dying from something else, and the vaccine stops that. https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.aaa3662

Measles vaccination is associated with less mortality from other childhood infections. Measles is known to cause transient immunosuppression, but close inspection of the mortality data suggests that it disables immune memory for 2 to 3 years.

 

 

[Lamia]

https://www.vaccinestoday.eu/stories/chickenpox-deaths-in-children-a-thing-of-the-past/