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7 minutes ago, phart said:

Holland opened up a couple of weeks ago and suddenly "Netherlands reports 10,345 new coronavirus cases, an increase of 803% from last week"

It isn't looking good in South Africa!

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7 hours ago, Lamia said:

To be fair given the impact of one football match on our Covid rates maybe there should be another behind closed doors season.

Sturgeon would love that. 

Funny how she never mentions covid rates in her entirely safe schools eh.

If we arent allowed in football stadiums this year with vaccines then wbats the point?

 

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46 minutes ago, Lamia said:

Personally though I wouldn't be opening up holiday travel until more of the world is vaccinated but I am not bothered one jot about fairness. Foreign holidays are not some sort of human right.

Thats all very good and well but furlough cant end then given the sheer numbers involved in that industry. Its on life support as it is.

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1 hour ago, Lamia said:

It isn't looking good in South Africa!

just left there 4 weeks ago after being there 5 months - apart from the couple lockdowns, life was normal 

just got my pfizer today in Houston -  pretty much nobody wearing masks 

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9 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Sturgeon would love that. 

Funny how she never mentions covid rates in her entirely safe schools eh.

If we arent allowed in football stadiums this year with vaccines then wbats the point?

 

Of course there are other causes but it is perfectly obvious what happened as a result on one game.

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9 hours ago, euan2020 said:

just left there 4 weeks ago after being there 5 months - apart from the couple lockdowns, life was normal 

just got my pfizer today in Houston -  pretty much nobody wearing masks 

What is level 4? The last paragraph makes it sound like there are ongoing restrictions?

https://businesstech.co.za/news/government/504996/south-africas-level-4-lockdown-extension-already-decided-report/

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I've been having a wee think about the interval between doses of the vaccine.

The JCVI is supposedly independent and purely looks at the most efficient way to protect the most amount of people. They set out priority groups with those most likely to die or suffer serious illness in the earliest groups. But they also went against the manufacturer advice to quadruple the manufacturer-advised dosing interval from 3 weeks to 12 weeks.

I have a recollection of Jason Leitch saying at the time that this was to maximise the amount of people who could get first doses. But in hindsight, it looks like the 12 weeks may have fitted in with the pattern of vaccine deliveries.

They subsequently reduced this to 8 weeks and although the regulators have approved the Pfizer vaccine for use in 12-18 year olds, we have yet to hear anything about when this will get underway. 

Our next big delivery of Pfizer is expected in August. I think they will announce in August that they are ready to start vaccinating the 12-18 year olds and I think they will also reduce the dosing interval down to 4 weeks, in line with the manufacturer guidance.

I think they have been making their dosing recommendations in line with supply constraints all along, rather than picking the dosing pattern that will provide the greatest level of protection. If they reduce the interval to 4 weeks when they starting vaccinating the kids this link will be even clearer.

This then makes you wonder whether there has been political interference in the JCVI decision making all along.

What would have been the problem in being more transparent and saying that we would like to follow manufacturer guidance on dosing intervals but supply doesn't allow us to do this?

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1 hour ago, tartandon said:

I've been having a wee think about the interval between doses of the vaccine.

The JCVI is supposedly independent and purely looks at the most efficient way to protect the most amount of people. They set out priority groups with those most likely to die or suffer serious illness in the earliest groups. But they also went against the manufacturer advice to quadruple the manufacturer-advised dosing interval from 3 weeks to 12 weeks.

I have a recollection of Jason Leitch saying at the time that this was to maximise the amount of people who could get first doses. But in hindsight, it looks like the 12 weeks may have fitted in with the pattern of vaccine deliveries.

They subsequently reduced this to 8 weeks and although the regulators have approved the Pfizer vaccine for use in 12-18 year olds, we have yet to hear anything about when this will get underway. 

Our next big delivery of Pfizer is expected in August. I think they will announce in August that they are ready to start vaccinating the 12-18 year olds and I think they will also reduce the dosing interval down to 4 weeks, in line with the manufacturer guidance.

I think they have been making their dosing recommendations in line with supply constraints all along, rather than picking the dosing pattern that will provide the greatest level of protection. If they reduce the interval to 4 weeks when they starting vaccinating the kids this link will be even clearer.

This then makes you wonder whether there has been political interference in the JCVI decision making all along.

What would have been the problem in being more transparent and saying that we would like to follow manufacturer guidance on dosing intervals but supply doesn't allow us to do this?

I think it also depends on the vaccine. I think you might be closer with your supposition with Pfizer. I still think the AZ vaccine is a slow burn so may well be better with a longer gap. 
 

The 8 or 12 weeks is definitely about the balance of supply over virus prevalence though.  

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There have been some reports of double-vaccinated people testing positive while being asymptomatic. Theres another example of this at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57789537

We probably dont know enough yet about how much of a problem this is likely to be. But if people can still 'catch' the virus and be asymptomatic after being double jagged, then that poses even bigger questions about the efficacy of mass population testing..  But there's no info in the above story about whether the positive test was through a proper PCR test or via a diddy lateral flow test.

 

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4 hours ago, tartandon said:

There have been some reports of double-vaccinated people testing positive while being asymptomatic. Theres another example of this at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57789537

We probably dont know enough yet about how much of a problem this is likely to be. But if people can still 'catch' the virus and be asymptomatic after being double jagged, then that poses even bigger questions about the efficacy of mass population testing..  But there's no info in the above story about whether the positive test was through a proper PCR test or via a diddy lateral flow test.

 

The vaccines especially the AZ one are not as effective against catching Covid 19 and spreading it. It is all about getting the balance right and one thing is for sure the UK won't.

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10 hours ago, Lamia said:

What is level 4? The last paragraph makes it sound like there are ongoing restrictions?

https://businesstech.co.za/news/government/504996/south-africas-level-4-lockdown-extension-already-decided-report/

Level 4 is restauarants, and bars closed, and no off license alcohol sales - so folk makin their own pineapple alcohol - just got extended another 2 weeks an hour ago  

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4 hours ago, Lamia said:

The vaccines especially the AZ one are not as effective against catching Covid 19 and spreading it. It is all about getting the balance right and one thing is for sure the UK won't.

And again we note how the UK Government has quickly and quietly dropped the Oxford moniker for that vaccine!

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On 7/11/2021 at 9:30 AM, Lamia said:

Of course there are other causes but it is perfectly obvious what happened as a result on one game.

I'd say Scotland having the worst Covid cases in Europe is more to do with the Scot Gov and their inability to govern, than a game of football. 

That game of football at Wmbley with tens of thousands without tickets due to restrictions, can't even be compared to say 4000 folk being allowed at a game of football in a 18,000 seater stadium. 

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3 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I'd say Scotland having the worst Covid cases in Europe is more to do with the Scot Gov and their inability to govern, than a game of football. 

 

I think it's more to do with them not being allowed to control our borders or stop people flying in from all over the world.  We had it almost sorted last summer but then various variants of covid were imported.  the UK government hated the fact that we were doing far better than them despite only having partial powers.  They did absolutely nothing to help us; quite the reverse.  No doubt after 19th July tourists will be swanning about not wearing masks and undoing any progress.

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1 hour ago, Alibi said:

I think it's more to do with them not being allowed to control our borders or stop people flying in from all over the world.  We had it almost sorted last summer but then various variants of covid were imported.  the UK government hated the fact that we were doing far better than them despite only having partial powers.  They did absolutely nothing to help us; quite the reverse.  No doubt after 19th July tourists will be swanning about not wearing masks and undoing any progress.

Your theory doesn’t explain why are rates our worse than England though who also have people flying in from all over the world 

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7 minutes ago, DAVIDB46 said:

Your theory doesn’t explain why are rates our worse than England though who also have people flying in from all over the world 

Not every area got seeded with the same variant at the same time. Everyone is comparing non homogenous conditions as if they are.

Certain areas which were seeded with Delta at the same time as the central belt had similiar rates.

Delta isn't the same proportion in different parts of europe as well. You need to elminate the confounding variables before you can make a comparison.

No one has a theory it's all a bit

 

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7 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I'd say Scotland having the worst Covid cases in Europe is more to do with the Scot Gov and their inability to govern, than a game of football. 

That game of football at Wmbley with tens of thousands without tickets due to restrictions, can't even be compared to say 4000 folk being allowed at a game of football in a 18,000 seater stadium. 

😂😂

Aye because this spike didn't at all coincided with that game! This is the only time Scotland has been in that position. It was clearly a combination of a failure to control the borders by the UK Government and that game. The Scottish Gov do of course have an element of responsibility in easing restrictions too soon as well but the first two were the main causes.

Edited by Lamia
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Just got back from the South of England yesterday and me and my missus have both tested positive today. We both had our second jag 6 weeks ago. She’s in bed with flu symptoms and no taste. I’m feeling ok, for now anyway.

We were pretty strict with the mask/ social distancing/sanitising rules. Because we were double jabbed we thought it would be safe to go away. Beginning to regret that decision now.

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8 hours ago, mwng said:

Just got back from the South of England yesterday and me and my missus have both tested positive today. We both had our second jag 6 weeks ago. She’s in bed with flu symptoms and no taste. I’m feeling ok, for now anyway.

We were pretty strict with the mask/ social distancing/sanitising rules. Because we were double jabbed we thought it would be safe to go away. Beginning to regret that decision now.

Which part was you in ?

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9 hours ago, mwng said:

Just got back from the South of England yesterday and me and my missus have both tested positive today. We both had our second jag 6 weeks ago. She’s in bed with flu symptoms and no taste. I’m feeling ok, for now anyway.

We were pretty strict with the mask/ social distancing/sanitising rules. Because we were double jabbed we thought it would be safe to go away. Beginning to regret that decision now.

Hope you're both OK. The vaccine a lot better at stopping hospitalisation!

I got 2nd jab about 6 weeks ago as well. I've still not went inside anywhere bar supermarket twice a week. I have been swithering about going to the gym as my subscription has started up again I know this is just one data point but makes me wary.

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