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2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I think the reduction in briefings and change in communication has reduced  in conjunction with the increase in vaccinations. People are expecting things to improve as the vaccinations increase, and they are. The hospital numbers have massively reduced.  I have to be honest and say I could count on my 2 hands the number of briefings I have heard during the entire pandemic. I know the main things i need to do and tbh if folk dont know what they are supposed to be doing by now they never will. I really dont think we  need a constant update anymore. I realise other people feel different though. 

I clearly coincided with the election as did the move to follow England much much moire closely. It isn't about whether people watched or not its is about the signals that sends. The signals changed following the election, hand in glove.

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1 hour ago, Lamia said:

I clearly coincided with the election as did the move to follow England much much moire closely. It isn't about whether people watched or not its is about the signals that sends. The signals changed following the election, hand in glove.

Agree completely, they are quite happy to let the infection run rampant through our population. We are in the middle of running a perfect experiment to see if a new variant will develop that is resistant to the vaccine.

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10 hours ago, Lamia said:

I clearly coincided with the election as did the move to follow England much much moire closely. It isn't about whether people watched or not its is about the signals that sends. The signals changed following the election, hand in glove.

You dont think after 15 months, serious cases dropped dramatically,  and a large percentage of the population vaccinated that is is perhaps acceptable to cut back on daily updates and use other sources to get the message out ?

 I have a 10 minute commute to the train station each day and regularly hear an advert about how we have done so well, we are nearly there, keep going, accompanied by upbeat music. This encourages me far more that NS standing rattling out numbers each day as I can see light at the end of the tunnel. Her updates are regular enough and there is plenty of information out there on where we are on the pandemic. 

I dont agree for a minute it was an election stunt. I know as many people who were unhappy with how strict we were and unprepared to vote SNP because of it. 

I do accept however others have different views. 
 


 

 

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12 hours ago, jailender said:

A friend of mine from Inverness was in motherwell at the weekend, and was shocked at the number of people not wearing masks and ignoring social distancing. No wonder case numbers are so high in the central belt. 

I'm back in Texas - pretty much nae kent is wearing a mask 

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17 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I cannot believe how folk think its all the governments fault for these high numbers. Does no one else on here  see what I see every day ,  non compliance everywhere . People need to start taking a bit of responsibility for their own actions, I am not talking about people on here who seem to be extremely careful, but this board is not a reflection of what is actually happening . 
 

They insisted schools were safe for starters, still do to an extent and that was a bare faced lie. The SNP are good at shifting the blame though and as an SNP voter i'm fed up listening to it. 

If you don't think the government up here need to take a share of the blame, the same way the government down south should do, then i despair. 

But aye, blame the population, that's exactly what they are relying on. The public were very compliant until recently when none of it makes any sense and smacks of double standards everywhere. 

I suppose Scotland having the worst drug deaths in Europe is solely the fault of the public too? Folk being punted into care homes? The Scottish Government have made plenty of fuck ups during this and it's the businesses of ordinary people who are suffering. Holyrood isn't back at anythign like ful capacity as it's not safe but it's safe to put 30 kids in a classroom with a teacher who is 60? No wonder folk have given up listening to them,

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13 hours ago, Lamia said:

I clearly coincided with the election as did the move to follow England much much moire closely. It isn't about whether people watched or not its is about the signals that sends. The signals changed following the election, hand in glove.

Spot on. 

 

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33 minutes ago, phart said:

 

About 70% in Scotland have had at least one dose of vaccine (Although the ones vaccinated in the past couple of weeks may not have antibodies yet.) Which means that about 15% have been infected, according those numbers. There will be some overlap of folk who have been both vaccinated and been infected. But those numbers do seem to tie up. 

I think there is no harm in repeating that having antibodies doesn't mean folk are immune from infection and/or serious disease but those numbers are promising.

As others have said the big worry now is vaccine escape, which will happen, it's just a case how quickly and how well we can respond to it. I was speaking to a virologist last week and she said "The only way to ensure that vaccine escape doesn't happen is to never use vaccines in the first place". Which I thought was an interesting way to look at things. She also said that vaccine escape doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. It's quite possible that the strain, or variant, that escapes the vaccines first could just happen to be a variant that produces very mild disease similar to the common cold. This in one way which which humans and viruses evolve to live with each other. There is no evolutionary advantage for a virus to kill its host. Of course, there is no way to predict the path of these things in advance.

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2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

You dont think after 15 months, serious cases dropped dramatically,  and a large percentage of the population vaccinated that is is perhaps acceptable to cut back on daily updates and use other sources to get the message out ?

 I have a 10 minute commute to the train station each day and regularly hear an advert about how we have done so well, we are nearly there, keep going, accompanied by upbeat music. This encourages me far more that NS standing rattling out numbers each day as I can see light at the end of the tunnel. Her updates are regular enough and there is plenty of information out there on where we are on the pandemic. 

I dont agree for a minute it was an election stunt. I know as many people who were unhappy with how strict we were and unprepared to vote SNP because of it. 

I do accept however others have different views. 
 


 

 

For me one thing the SG got right, and did a lot better than down south, was essentially crisis communication.  One of the basics of that is if you leave a void someone else will fill it and you risk it being any old bollocks.  Boris and his ensemble cast went for filling it with their own bollocks with various different confusing messaging/graphs whereas we had a consistent speaker giving a consistent message.  There was however definitely times it was used to the SNP advantage where bad news stories were released the same day as big announcements on Covid and although the Salmond thing was a pretty big story overall it would probably have been much bigger had the media nowt else focus on.  It also took the focus away from the education shambles too as if it wasn't for Covid the postponing of the report until June would have got a lot more traction than it did.    

The main issue for me came at the end of the first wave where we'd played by all the rules and our wee lass hadn't seen her granny/granda in months.  England came out with far worse numbers and there was either no way, or no want, to stopping visitors coming up.  From there the SG response was almost redundant anyway and any statement of attempting zero Covid was either a lie, strategically unachievable or both. 

As much as there has been faff about the edges and the presentation of it the SG haven't the capability to do anything meaningfully different really.  In a way, when the time is right, it should also present them with a bit of an open goal in Independence discussions (this is what you could have won!) around health, border control and furlough to an extent but I've not got the confidence they have the want or ability to translate it into anything meaningful.       

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23 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

They insisted schools were safe for starters, still do to an extent and that was a bare faced lie. The SNP are good at shifting the blame though and as an SNP voter i'm fed up listening to it. 

If you don't think the government up here need to take a share of the blame, the same way the government down south should do, then i despair. 

But aye, blame the population, that's exactly what they are relying on. The public were very compliant until recently when none of it makes any sense and smacks of double standards everywhere. 

I suppose Scotland having the worst drug deaths in Europe is solely the fault of the public too? Folk being punted into care homes? The Scottish Government have made plenty of fuck ups during this and it's the businesses of ordinary people who are suffering. Holyrood isn't back at anythign like ful capacity as it's not safe but it's safe to put 30 kids in a classroom with a teacher who is 60? No wonder folk have given up listening to them,

Where did I say the government were not to blame for anything?  I clearly said mistakes were made.  I am simply giving an alternative view to folk on here blaming the government without even considering the public should share some responsibility .

I can totally understand why folk are not complying but dont tell me its all to do with double standards. I imagine you went to the Scotland games therefore if double standards are being met then you probably think there should have been less restrictions at the wedding you went to . Others on here think the football should not have gone ahead and think things have loosened too much,  so they think different. Nobody agrees on anything apart from the fact its the governments fault. 


 

 

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27 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

For me one thing the SG got right, and did a lot better than down south, was essentially crisis communication.  One of the basics of that is if you leave a void someone else will fill it and you risk it being any old bollocks.  Boris and his ensemble cast went for filling it with their own bollocks with various different confusing messaging/graphs whereas we had a consistent speaker giving a consistent message.  There was however definitely times it was used to the SNP advantage where bad news stories were released the same day as big announcements on Covid and although the Salmond thing was a pretty big story overall it would probably have been much bigger had the media nowt else focus on.  It also took the focus away from the education shambles too as if it wasn't for Covid the postponing of the report until June would have got a lot more traction than it did.    

The main issue for me came at the end of the first wave where we'd played by all the rules and our wee lass hadn't seen her granny/granda in months.  England came out with far worse numbers and there was either no way, or no want, to stopping visitors coming up.  From there the SG response was almost redundant anyway and any statement of attempting zero Covid was either a lie, strategically unachievable or both. 

As much as there has been faff about the edges and the presentation of it the SG haven't the capability to do anything meaningfully different really.  In a way, when the time is right, it should also present them with a bit of an open goal in Independence discussions (this is what you could have won!) around health, border control and furlough to an extent but I've not got the confidence they have the want or ability to translate it into anything meaningful.       

The UK is probably unlike most other places in the world, where 4 countries are all trying to do their own thing but are inextricably linked regardless. We are all taking far more notice of what is happening in each of the other countries than most other countries would with their neighbours. 
It is probably more difficult to attach praise or blame to the SG government in this situation because, like you say, their actions are restricted.  Like you, I was also unhappy at us allowing movement of people within the UK after the first wave , and dont get me started on the international borders . I was however also hearing a load of people talking about ‘wee jimmy crankie not letting us see our family in England’ . 

I definitely agree that the the education report was deliberately delayed till after the election, but my point was focusing on Covid and that everyone has to take some responsibility on why the numbers are so high at the moment. I am not on as a protector of the SG, more to highlight that there are other factors.

 That said, I dont hear a lot of people unduly worried either. I think a lot of people understand there will be more people contracting it but the vaccinations should  negate the worst of it.  I dont think this board is representative of how a lot of people feel. 


 

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5 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

You dont think after 15 months, serious cases dropped dramatically,  and a large percentage of the population vaccinated that is is perhaps acceptable to cut back on daily updates and use other sources to get the message out ?

 I have a 10 minute commute to the train station each day and regularly hear an advert about how we have done so well, we are nearly there, keep going, accompanied by upbeat music. This encourages me far more that NS standing rattling out numbers each day as I can see light at the end of the tunnel. Her updates are regular enough and there is plenty of information out there on where we are on the pandemic. 

I dont agree for a minute it was an election stunt. I know as many people who were unhappy with how strict we were and unprepared to vote SNP because of it. 

I do accept however others have different views. 
 


 

 

If it hadn't exactly coincided with the election and if NS had actually said that you might have a point. This was not about being popular per se it was about looking different.

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If the UK hits 100,000 a week then the impact will be very similar to lockdown anyway. Businesses will be short staffed and hospitals will be impacted.

What it looks like they are doing is trying to infect as many people as possible before the winter when there are greater additional impacts.

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55 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

The UK is probably unlike most other places in the world, where 4 countries are all trying to do their own thing but are inextricably linked regardless. We are all taking far more notice of what is happening in each of the other countries than most other countries would with their neighbours. 
It is probably more difficult to attach praise or blame to the SG government in this situation because, like you say, their actions are restricted.  Like you, I was also unhappy at us allowing movement of people within the UK after the first wave , and dont get me started on the international borders . I was however also hearing a load of people talking about ‘wee jimmy crankie not letting us see our family in England’ . 

I definitely agree that the the education report was deliberately delayed till after the election, but my point was focusing on Covid and that everyone has to take some responsibility on why the numbers are so high at the moment. I am not on as a protector of the SG, more to highlight that there are other factors.

 That said, I dont hear a lot of people unduly worried either. I think a lot of people understand there will be more people contracting it but the vaccinations should  negate the worst of it.  I dont think this board is representative of how a lot of people feel. 


 

You are passing the buck, the people of this country and in fact any country expect their government to be able to lead the populace through a crisis. Let's face it, a lot of people are really stupid and if a government says it is ok to do X, Y or Z or just not make any comment at all, like not saying "please don't travel to London to see the football" then idiots will do it because that's all of a green light they need to go ahead with risky behaviour. 

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2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Where did I say the government were not to blame for anything?  I clearly said mistakes were made.  I am simply giving an alternative view to folk on here blaming the government without even considering the public should share some responsibility .

I can totally understand why folk are not complying but dont tell me its all to do with double standards. I imagine you went to the Scotland games therefore if double standards are being met then you probably think there should have been less restrictions at the wedding you went to . Others on here think the football should not have gone ahead and think things have loosened too much,  so they think different. Nobody agrees on anything apart from the fact its the governments fault. 


 

 

Not been to the wedding yet, it's next week. Still 50 folk will be allowed to attend weddings in Glasgow next week but 12,500 can attend the football.  And for what it's worth, i think football crowds should be back to normal for the season starting.

200 folk can attend a pub if it's big enough but 100 can't attend a wedding no matter the size of the venue. 

That is double standards, no matter how they dress it up. 

And Yes, i went to the football, ill take any normality we can get just now. 

Edited by Squirrelhumper
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The football has clearly trumped everything else which is quite hilarious because the domestic game certainly didn't.

If they could just be honest instead of trying to find some flimsy justification. Right the way through I could understand the logic of the decisions and people were often being disingenuous about the supposed anomalies but now its s shit show.

Their treatment of Care Home residents remains an utter disgrace! Apparently some people are being asked if the clothes have been laundered before visiting FFS! Now that might not be a direct result of the government rules but they have done sweet FA to stop these largely private businesses restricting residents and their families beyond anything tolerable or reasonable. Not only did they let thousands die they then kept them prisoners isolated from their families for over a year whilst others swanned off to the football and did what they pleased regardless of any rules.

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46 minutes ago, Lamia said:

If it hadn't exactly coincided with the election and if NS had actually said that you might have a point. This was not about being popular per se it was about looking different.

We probably need to agree to disagree on this. I do respect your view though.

43 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

You are passing the buck, the people of this country and in fact any country expect their government to be able to lead the populace through a crisis. Let's face it, a lot of people are really stupid and if a government says it is ok to do X, Y or Z or just not make any comment at all, like not saying "please don't travel to London to see the football" then idiots will do it because that's all of a green light they need to go ahead with risky behaviour. 

I really am not meaning to pass the buck. I am not blaming any single entity.  I am just saying part of the reason the numbers are high is because people arent adhering to guidelines. I agree that the government should be leading, and for most part  i think they did, and they definitely made mistakes along the way. 
Now that vaccinations are well under way I think they need to let go the apron strings a bit. Part of that means people taking responsibility for themselves. I know what you mean about folk being stupid but at the same time if you keep repeating the same warnings  people will just ignore it anyway. As with Lamia though I respect your views .

38 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Not been to the wedding yet, it's next week. Still 50 folk will be allowed to attend weddings in Glasgow next week but 12,500 can attend the football.  And for what it's worth, i think football crowds should be back to normal for the season starting.

200 folk can attend a pub if it's big enough but 100 can't attend a wedding no matter the size of the venue. 

That is double standards, no matter how they dress it up. 

And Yes, i went to the football, ill take any normality we can get just now. 

aye, apologies, I was getting mixed up with Alibis wedding.
The situation with special events is crap. Weddings are bad enough but at least they can be rearranged if absolutely necessary. No such flexibility with funerals and my heart goes out to anyone who has had bereavements during this time.  

I agree that there is double standards, I wasnt denying that,  but has anyone asked why? I dont mean you specifically , does anyone know what is their reasoning? You would think they have some reason even if sounds ridiculous. 

I dont blame you at all for going to the football, I went too and for the same reasons as you. I used the football as an example to highlight that everyone has different views on what we should and should not be doing, that in itself leads to folk not adhering to guidelines . 
I am however hopeful that things will improve soon. 

 

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So I have clearly been slow on the uptake. Is the strategy to try to get herd immunity through a combination of infection and vaccination before the winter and they are using infection in young people rather than vaccination because they don't have enough vaccines to vaccinate 14-18 year olds and because less young people who can get the vaccines will actually take up them up?

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1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

 

aye, apologies, I was getting mixed up with Alibis wedding.
The situation with special events is crap. Weddings are bad enough but at least they can be rearranged if absolutely necessary. No such flexibility with funerals and my heart goes out to anyone who has had bereavements during this time.  



 

Yeah i know that too unfortunately, as my grans funeral had 20 folk at it, all sat miles apart. I'd love to hear the justification in April, 12 months after the pandemic started and months after the vaccine started to be rolled out, as to why only 20 folk can say goodbye to a loved one. 

I had to do a reading to 10 folk (and my brothers baby) plus 8 folk in a room watching on a screen next door. That cremetorium could hold 50 easily with social distancing but no, the government had a one size meets all approach. Luckily she died at home and we could just ignore the rules and say goodbye. If she had gone to hospital it would have been via zoom. Fast forward a few weeks and 12500 are at Hampden. I have zero issue with Hampden, as it 100% should have happened (i'd have  had bigger crowds there) but can't understand how 6/7 weeks after my grans funeral the landscape changed so much. 

Also, Sturgeon will shaft the domestic game. Wait and see how many fans clubs like Killie, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen allowed in a 20,000 seater. Should be 5k minimum going by Hampden % but no chance we will be allowed that for these games in the League Cup.

Be lucky if we are allowed 25% for the league starting.  

Edited by Squirrelhumper
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1 hour ago, Lamia said:

So I have clearly been slow on the uptake. Is the strategy to try to get herd immunity through a combination of infection and vaccination before the winter and they are using infection in young people rather than vaccination because they don't have enough vaccines to vaccinate 14-18 year olds and because less young people who can get the vaccines will actually take up them up?

Probably a combination of both. 

Furlough ends in September too and if England are going full steam ahead with opening up then we will do likewise. 

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18 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Yeah i know that too unfortunately, as my grans funeral had 20 folk at it, all sat miles apart. I'd love to hear the justification in April, 12 months after the pandemic started and months after the vaccine started to be rolled out, as to why only 20 folk can say goodbye to a loved one. 

I had to do a reading to 10 folk (and my brothers baby) plus 8 folk in a room watching on a screen next door. That cremetorium could hold 50 easily with social distancing but no, the government had a one size meets all approach. Luckily she died at home and we could just ignore the rules and say goodbye. If she had gone to hospital it would have been via zoom. Fast forward a few weeks and 12500 are at Hampden. I have zero issue with Hampden, as it 100% should have happened (i'd have  had bigger crowds there) but can't understand how 6/7 weeks after my grans funeral the landscape changed so much. 

Also, Sturgeon will shaft the domestic game. Wait and see how many fans clubs like Killie, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen allowed in a 20,000 seater. Should be 5k minimum going by Hampden % but no chance we will be allowed that for these games in the League Cup.

Be lucky if we are allowed 25% for the league starting.  

Condolences SH, to speak at the funeral of a loved one is stressful enough in normal times , never mind under those conditions.

From memory,  April was a bit grim for the covid situation, I remember as I had to go to the cardiology dept for a check up near the end of April and the person I saw told me the hospital had lost 5 people to covid in one day, just a few weeks earlier ,  3 of them under 40 yrs of age.  He said it was the worst time  for covid, outwith the height of the pandemic last year.

But I do agree with you in principle about the numbers allowed. Some of the shops in town have signs saying they can take over 100 people,  yet are not any bigger, if anything they are smaller, than crematoriums or function rooms/ public halls. I cannot see why you can have 100 people in a shop and only 50 at a wedding . Why is it  that someone can buy a dress for a wedding but cannot attend that wedding due to restricted numbers , when the shop they bought it from is allowed more people in it yet is smaller than the wedding venue. 
 

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45 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Yeah i know that too unfortunately, as my grans funeral had 20 folk at it, all sat miles apart. I'd love to hear the justification in April, 12 months after the pandemic started and months after the vaccine started to be rolled out, as to why only 20 folk can say goodbye to a loved one. 

I had to do a reading to 10 folk (and my brothers baby) plus 8 folk in a room watching on a screen next door. That cremetorium could hold 50 easily with social distancing but no, the government had a one size meets all approach. Luckily she died at home and we could just ignore the rules and say goodbye. If she had gone to hospital it would have been via zoom. Fast forward a few weeks and 12500 are at Hampden. I have zero issue with Hampden, as it 100% should have happened (i'd have  had bigger crowds there) but can't understand how 6/7 weeks after my grans funeral the landscape changed so much. 

Also, Sturgeon will shaft the domestic game. Wait and see how many fans clubs like Killie, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen allowed in a 20,000 seater. Should be 5k minimum going by Hampden % but no chance we will be allowed that for these games in the League Cup.

Be lucky if we are allowed 25% for the league starting.  

I completely disagree on the crowd numbers as the Euros. Not necessarily because of the actual attendance but because of all the travel/hospitality associated and far too soon in the vaccine rollout with it but totally agree about the domestic game it would not at all surprise me if they were curtailed. I thought Dave Cormack was behaving like an arse demanding fans return but if there are restrictions in the new season no one could reasonably defend that.

On funerals and weddings I totally got the restricted numbers there as opposed to other settings because people would be likely to be hugging etc but it is utterly contemptible that football crowds were allowed but people were restricted so severely at funerals.

I mostly backed the Scottish Gov approach (apart from Care Homes) right through but I am disgusted by their approach since just before the election and more so since the election - I am struggling to tell Nicola and Boris apart apart from on mask wearing.

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