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8 minutes ago, Parklife said:

I agree the dates need to be flexible and adapted to the changing situation.

However people also need a bit of hope. Something to look forward to. They can't just keep saying restrictions are continuing for the next 3 weeks. People will just give up.

A flexible framework with indicative dates is sensible imo. It doesn't have to be as explicit as the UK government has laid out but key stages and dates such as "the end of May" or whatever should be given.

 

Sturgeon is fucked either way today. If she does anything different to bojos plan she's just doing it to be different, if she does name specific dates she gets it in the neck if she doesn't adhere to those dates

Edited by vanderark14
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52 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Sturgeon is fucked either way today. If she does anything different to bojos plan she's just doing it to be different, if she does name specific dates she gets it in the neck if she doesn't adhere to those dates

So a great chance to outdo boris and get us open before England!. 

 

Im sure there is a song. 

 

You take the high road and ill take the low road, and I'll be in lockdown before you.. 

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7 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Sturgeon is fucked either way today. If she does anything different to bojos plan she's just doing it to be different, if she does name specific dates she gets it in the neck if she doesn't adhere to those dates

That's why her messaging needs to be clear. They're indicative and "best case" dates, subject to change dependent on the situation. 

She leads the Scottish government. It's their job to ensure their message is delivered clearly. 

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The problem is, as soon as a date is mentioned it becomes set in stone in people's heads. Regardless of how many times anyone says 'this is an indicative date" or "this is a best case scenario" people get it in their head that the dates are fixed. You then get the added problem of stated dates leading people to think that things are getting better and their potentially becoming less rigid in their adherence to the current rules.

Once again, the UK government shambles has screwed it up.

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5 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said:

The problem is, as soon as a date is mentioned it becomes set in stone in people's heads. Regardless of how many times anyone says 'this is an indicative date" or "this is a best case scenario" people get it in their head that the dates are fixed. You then get the added problem of stated dates leading people to think that things are getting better and their potentially becoming less rigid in their adherence to the current rules.

Once again, the UK government shambles has screwed it up.

I agree with that. The Boris team came up with an excellent slogan of "data not dates" and he should have just stuck to saying that, over and over again. But the first thing he does is slap dates on stuff all over the place. As you say, the only thing people will remember are the dates.

 

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1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

Sturgeon is fucked either way today. If she does anything different to bojos plan she's just doing it to be different, if she does name specific dates she gets it in the neck if she doesn't adhere to those dates

I suspect it will be the former. As far as timelines are concerned she hasnt allowed herself to be bullied by Westminster up till now, I cant see it changing unless she is swayed by the upcoming election. 

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12 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I agree with that. The Boris team came up with an excellent slogan of "data not dates" and he should have just stuck to saying that, over and over again. But the first thing he does is slap dates on stuff all over the place. As you say, the only thing people will remember are the dates.

 

People already going wild and booking holidays from July.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56161129

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1 hour ago, wee-toon-red said:

People already going wild and booking holidays from July.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56161129

Surely this is a typo, I lost £3k when Thomas Cook collapsed. 
 

‘’Thomas Cook said traffic to its website was up over 100% on Monday from 15:00 GMT onwards, with bookings "flooding in" for countries such as Greece, Cyprus, Mexico and the Dominican Republic.

"The government's announcement today is good news for those of us desperate to get away on holiday," said Thomas Cook's chief executive Alan French. 

"While we await more details, it's clear that the government's ambition is to open up international travel in the coming months and hopefully in time for the summer holidays."

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16 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Surely this is a typo, I lost £3k when Thomas Cook collapsed. 
 

‘’Thomas Cook said traffic to its website was up over 100% on Monday from 15:00 GMT onwards, with bookings "flooding in" for countries such as Greece, Cyprus, Mexico and the Dominican Republic.

"The government's announcement today is good news for those of us desperate to get away on holiday," said Thomas Cook's chief executive Alan French. 

"While we await more details, it's clear that the government's ambition is to open up international travel in the coming months and hopefully in time for the summer holidays."

Some Chinese company bought the name and brand. It's a wee bit like the Rangers.

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3 hours ago, Parklife said:

I agree the dates need to be flexible and adapted to the changing situation.

However people also need a bit of hope. Something to look forward to. They can't just keep saying restrictions are continuing for the next 3 weeks. People will just give up.

A flexible framework with indicative dates is sensible imo. It doesn't have to be as explicit as the UK government has laid out but key stages and dates such as "the end of May" or whatever should be given.

 

I would accept that if people could take it in that vein but they seemingly can’t. Every time the dates are not met then there is uproar so giving hope is self defeating and probably one of the reasons England’s death rate is so high. 

Edited by Lamia
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On 2/5/2021 at 9:29 AM, ThistleWhistle said:

It'll be interesting when the latest recruitment drive becomes more common knowledge. My two nieces on my wife's side are qualified/ nearly qualified nurses over in India and Nepal.  They are offering to pay: wage needed to qualify for visa,  flights, visas, NHS charges (might be waived now) and a month wage in advance for settling in costs.  

With the price of a flight being almost a year's salary in Nepal there are ethical questions about stripping third world countries but market forces I suppose in its most raw.  Closer to home they used to come free from the EU so this will cost a fortune and probably won't plug the gap anyway. 

Saw this and remembered your post. Nice and fluffy and no mention whatsoever about the cost to attract them. 
 

https://aboutmanchester.co.uk/nursing-numbers-at-stepping-hill-hospital-receive-boost-with-a-group-of-10-nurses-from-india-and-nepal-joining-the-workforce/

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2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Saw this and remembered your post. Nice and fluffy and no mention whatsoever about the cost to attract them. 
 

https://aboutmanchester.co.uk/nursing-numbers-at-stepping-hill-hospital-receive-boost-with-a-group-of-10-nurses-from-india-and-nepal-joining-the-workforce/

Cheers for that - it'll be interesting to see the reponse this gets as would imagine it'll be a few months down the line before it's common knowledge.  Saw record numbers are taking nursing at college/ university but they'll be a few years away from qualified so it'll come out at some point.  

One of the neice's chose to go to Germany instead so hopefully its somewhere with a semi-decent football team when we go over to visit for a weekend.  Think the elder one still wants to come but she's going London so my wife can go there on her own.  

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56 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

No dates beyond April. Makes more sense at this stage than BOJO ‘s  pin the tail on the donkey roadmap. As expected opposition parties are ‘disappointed’.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-56170916

 

 

 

There isn;t much different to what sturgeon is doing compared to Bojo 

four people from two households allowed to meet up outdoors - 15th March - England starting the rule of 7 on 29th March

Stay at home restrictions lifted 5th april - England is 29th march

Schools - Scotland already has its youngest kids back at school - with the rest expected to be back 15th March at earlier. In England they have opened the flood gates and all kids go back on the 8th but again not much difference between both

Opening shops pubs etc - Scotland expects to see a phased but significant reopening of the economy, including non ssential retail, hospitality, gyms, hairdressers etc in the last week of april - England have set  date of two weeks before for non essential retail, hairdressers and outdoors for pubs. 

So essentially there is fuck all difference between them except you MIGHT get a haircut and a pint a couple of weeks earlier if you live in england but again the key word is MIGHT.

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I think that Boris has almost painted himself into a corner by being so specific on dates, as people will perceive them to be set in stone, and if he has to try to move them back, there will be a huge kickback against him. In that respect I think the Scottish government have taken a more sensible approach.

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14 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

There isn;t much different to what sturgeon is doing compared to Bojo 

four people from two households allowed to meet up outdoors - 15th March - England starting the rule of 7 on 29th March

Stay at home restrictions lifted 5th april - England is 29th march

Schools - Scotland already has its youngest kids back at school - with the rest expected to be back 15th March at earlier. In England they have opened the flood gates and all kids go back on the 8th but again not much difference between both

Opening shops pubs etc - Scotland expects to see a phased but significant reopening of the economy, including non ssential retail, hospitality, gyms, hairdressers etc in the last week of april - England have set  date of two weeks before for non essential retail, hairdressers and outdoors for pubs. 

So essentially there is fuck all difference between them except you MIGHT get a haircut and a pint a couple of weeks earlier if you live in england but again the key word is MIGHT.

I wasnt referring the early stages, it was always likely they would be similar with small timing differences . I was referring to the fact she hadnt given any timings beyond April. To me that makes much more sense. How can you forecast what will happen in June till you know how the first stages go ? She has said it is cautious and that if data allows things may be brought forward, to me that makes more sense than setting out dates 4 months ahead quoting ‘aspirational  and ‘ hopeful ‘ continuously with your fingers crossed behind your back. 

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1 minute ago, TDYER63 said:

I wasnt referring the early stages, it was always likely they would be similar with small timing differences . I was referring to the fact she hadnt given any timings beyond April. To me that makes much more sense. How can you forecast what will happen in June till you know how the first stages go ? She has said it is cautious and that if data allows things may be brought forward, to me that makes more sense than setting out dates 4 months ahead quoting ‘aspirational  and ‘ hopeful ‘ continuously with your fingers crossed behind your back. 

Couldn't agree more Tyder 

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21 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

 

So essentially there is fuck all difference between them except you MIGHT get a haircut and a pint a couple of weeks earlier if you live in england but again the key word is MIGHT.

I think there's more than a couple of weeks difference with regard to a pint. All being well, Scotland could move down to level 3 restrictions during the last week in April - no alcohol anywhere in level 3!

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6 minutes ago, min said:

I think there's more than a couple of weeks difference with regard to a pint. All being well, Scotland could move down to level 3 restrictions during the last week in April - no alcohol anywhere in level 3!

But they've also said the levels can be revised

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3 minutes ago, min said:

I think there's more than a couple of weeks difference with regard to a pint. All being well, Scotland could move down to level 3 restrictions during the last week in April - no alcohol anywhere in level 3!

 

This is from the bbc website. So, I'm expecting the pubs to be open on the 26th of April. Nicola has promised, no going back on that now.

"The reopening of Scotland's economy - including shops, bars, restaurants, gyms and hairdressers - is expected to start in the last week of April, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has announced."

 
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3 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

But they've also said the levels can be revised

And they will be revised, but a quick look at the strategic framework update document suggests the levels will be tightened if anything. Example - to be in level 1, the case criteria was previously 20-75 weekly cases/100k it will now be <20 weekly cases /100k. 

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