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34 minutes ago, phart said:

simple would be a good word for your point.

You didn't provide an actual example of either the efficacy or benefit of scientific progress, so I did it for you.

You then said that my point was simple.

It was meant to be.

56 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

See? A simple example of scientific advancement through the years (and within a lifetime).

Meaning that it should be easy for you to provide one just as 'simple'.

28 minutes ago, phart said:

I'll stick to the discussion at hand and the point i was making. 

If this is your point...

"I prefer empiricism and the scientific method, it's why without it we went from stone spears to bronze spears in 60,000 years and with it we went from bow and arrow to the moon in 300 years."

Mixing any old use of the word 'science' and unprovable myth, then you'll have to expect some push back.

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14 minutes ago, Scotty CTA said:

You didn't provide an actual example of either the efficacy or benefit of scientific progress, so I did it for you.

You then said that my point was simple.

It was meant to be.

Meaning that it should be easy for you to provide one just as 'simple'.

If this is your point...

"I prefer empiricism and the scientific method, it's why without it we went from stone spears to bronze spears in 60,000 years and with it we went from bow and arrow to the moon in 300 years."

Mixing any old use of the word 'science' and unprovable myth, then you'll have to expect some push back.

Scotty I did provide it, i used both the ability to travel across vast distances and the ability to exploit the nuclear forces for energy. Both were implicit.

If you didn't see the efficacy i pointed out that's on you not me.

The problem here is you don't believe that we went to the moon and the earth is older than say 6000 years. That's your problem not mine though and is rooted in your irrational adherence to a discredited creation myth.

I'm not going to step into that irrationality and waste my time, one life wasted to it between us is more than plenty.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, phart said:

Scotty I did provide it...

You didn't provide anything that was provable through science.

31 minutes ago, phart said:

i used both the ability to travel across vast distances...

I used the ability to travel long distances on earth through provable flight.

You overstepped and claimed man went to the moon.

35 minutes ago, phart said:

...and the ability to exploit the nuclear forces for energy. 

What happened to your billions of years example?

37 minutes ago, phart said:

I'm not going to step into that irrationality and waste my time, one life wasted to it between us is more than plenty.

Pseudo science isn't science.

Scientism isn't science.

Scientific theory isn't science.

Everyone will know everything in the end.

(You're welcome for 9/11. :) )

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Israel sees 60% drop in hospitalizations for age 60-plus 3 weeks after 1st shot

Full effects of Pfizer’s shots only kick in around a month after inoculation, but data from Israel shows there is a stark drop in infections even before that point

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-sees-60-drop-in-hospitalizations-for-over-60s-in-weeks-after-vaccination/

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2 minutes ago, phart said:

Israel sees 60% drop in hospitalizations for age 60-plus 3 weeks after 1st shot

Full effects of Pfizer’s shots only kick in around a month after inoculation, but data from Israel shows there is a stark drop in infections even before that point

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-sees-60-drop-in-hospitalizations-for-over-60s-in-weeks-after-vaccination/

Hopefully this is accurate. Got my first Pfizer dose yesterday (not over 60) mid 50's. I was advised it would take 3 weeks to kick in.

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Theresa Coffey, Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, said on ITV this morning was a belter.  Waffle nonsense about how they were prepared for pandemics like flu but they'd reacted well to as knowledge/ experience changed oblivious really to this being round two.  Couldn't really address why we hadn't locked borders and then when pushed for an answer on why if the government are doing so well how are our death figures so horrendous/ highest daily numbers in the world - the two factors given are we are old and fat.  

Now they are contributory factors but for a government minister to exonerate themselves then lay the blame at the public's age and weight was kind of special.  As odious as Morgan is he smelled blood and after a pathetic attempt to wiggle out of it she just hung up on him.  They're an absolute circus act who're only going on the tele again because the vaccine roll-out is going alright.  

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4 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Theresa Coffey, Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, said on ITV this morning was a belter.  Waffle nonsense about how they were prepared for pandemics like flu but they'd reacted well to as knowledge/ experience changed oblivious really to this being round two.  Couldn't really address why we hadn't locked borders and then when pushed for an answer on why if the government are doing so well how are our death figures so horrendous/ highest daily numbers in the world - the two factors given are we are old and fat.  

Now they are contributory factors but for a government minister to exonerate themselves then lay the blame at the public's age and weight was kind of special.  As odious as Morgan is he smelled blood and after a pathetic attempt to wiggle out of it she just hung up on him.  They're an absolute circus act who're only going on the tele again because the vaccine roll-out is going alright.  

I initially thought you had wasted an apostrophe there. Maybe not? ;) 

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17 hours ago, phart said:

Israel sees 60% drop in hospitalizations for age 60-plus 3 weeks after 1st shot

Full effects of Pfizer’s shots only kick in around a month after inoculation, but data from Israel shows there is a stark drop in infections even before that point

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-sees-60-drop-in-hospitalizations-for-over-60s-in-weeks-after-vaccination/

There is a lot of good data coming out of Israel just now. I suppose it's because they are well ahead of anyone else in the vaccination program.

If that article is a correct reflection of the actual study then, I think, this is the first data that shows the vaccine actually reduces the infection rate. I don't think even Pfizer themselves have claimed that yet?

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9 minutes ago, Lamia said:

This it they thing many people don't factor in. Even if you don't die a significant number of people suffer long term effects.

I had a maths tutorial tonight and the lecturer had it 2 months ago and was still couching like mad, even though they felt fine apart from loss of smell and a cough. Felt so sorry for her she just can't shake that cough.

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1 hour ago, Lamia said:

This it they thing many people don't factor in. Even if you don't die a significant number of people suffer long term effects.

I had all the covid symptoms last March before the lockdown. Never got tested just self isolated for 10 days. Worst bit was I couldnt take a deep breath but could breath normally. Im relatively fit at 59 playing loads of golf courses and walking over 100 miles a week when on holiday. But can still feel it on the lungs when climbing steep hills. Waiting for it to quieten a bit then get myself referred to long covid clinic. No surprise that it has impacted peoples health that much.

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On 10/12/2020 at 12:07 PM, Orraloon said:

In New Zealand hotels are being used to quarantine people arriving from abroad. Testing isn't optional for those people. They can't get into the country without being tested and quarantined.

They have much smaller numbers because they are severely restricting who, and how many, can enter the country. By comparison we are doing virtually nothing to prevent the virus coming in from abroad.

 

Hotels coming into play now it seems.

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12 hours ago, phart said:

I had a maths tutorial tonight and the lecturer had it 2 months ago and was still couching like mad, even though they felt fine apart from loss of smell and a cough. Felt so sorry for her she just can't shake that cough.

It does go away eventually.  Mine took more than two months.

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11 hours ago, irnbruman said:

I had all the covid symptoms last March before the lockdown. Never got tested just self isolated for 10 days. Worst bit was I couldnt take a deep breath but could breath normally. Im relatively fit at 59 playing loads of golf courses and walking over 100 miles a week when on holiday. But can still feel it on the lungs when climbing steep hills. Waiting for it to quieten a bit then get myself referred to long covid clinic. No surprise that it has impacted peoples health that much.

I had a series of chest x-rays in the months after I had covid.  Although I don't recall having been unable to breathe at the time, there were signs of scarring of the lungs and build up of fluid, plus cardiac changes.  I think there are an awful lot of people who think they've recovered fully or who aren't even aware they've had covid but are walking around with lung damage and cardiac damage that they may not even be aware of; There should be a national post-covid screening programme implemented.  a friend of mine caught covid while in Spain right at the start of the pandemic - he thought he was fine but I suggested to him he should get a blood test and it revealed changes that could have led to clotting (cause of strokes and heart attacks).  I would recommend anyone in doubt to seek a medical opinion even if they feel OK.

The initial UK government line was "just stay in your bed for a week and you'll be fine".  I don't know if that was ignorance or a deliberate lie but my money's on the latter.  As usual, follow the money...

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