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1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

Both the MHRA and JCVI have said that there is enough evidence in the data to support the changes. That's good enough for me. There is a clear trade off between people having a bit less protection for the extended period between doses, and other people having no protection at all, because they can't get the first dose. They have decided that on balance it's better to get as many people as possible to have the lower level of protection rather than than have half the number have near full as possible protection. The logic seems sound to me but it needs folk with more knowledge than me to work out the statistical benefits.

 

My point is why is no journalist asking about something as important as this but are continuing to ask the meaningless drivel they have from day one. I would rather hear the explanation and also why MHRA and JVCI know more than the company that did the manufacturing and testing given we have only just started to roll it out.

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1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

👍

I hope the timing for your dad’s second vaccination remains in place. I think what Orraloon has said makes sense, but when its your own family and the expectation has been for a second vaccine imminently it probably gives more comfort for it to go ahead as planned.   

Yeah I would rather he got it when he is scheduled to but I imagine he now won't

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1 hour ago, Lamia said:

Yeah I would rather he got it when he is scheduled to but I imagine he now won't

I would guess that the folk who have already been vaccinated and told they will get their second one in 3-4 weeks, probably still will. Going forward folk will be told that they will get the 2nd one within 12 weeks.

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The BBC News earlier were practically boasting about the UK being "the first to approve 2 vaccines".  Reeks of desperation to me.  It's the first time I've caught their programme in a while and I couldn't believe that death total.

The daily figure as well was utterly horrific and sadly they'll probably be putting more attention into keeping the "number" below 1000 by whatever statistical manipulation necessary.

A month's additional warning and a big stretch of water all the way round.  Anywhere else "leaders" like that would've been dragged through the streets and lynched.

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8 hours ago, daviebee said:

 

A month's additional warning and a big stretch of water all the way round.  Anywhere else "leaders" like that would've been dragged through the streets and lynched.

In a nutshell!

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15 hours ago, Lamia said:

My point is why is no journalist asking about something as important as this but are continuing to ask the meaningless drivel they have from day one. I would rather hear the explanation and also why MHRA and JVCI know more than the company that did the manufacturing and testing given we have only just started to roll it out.

I don't think there are many journalists around today who have much interest in trying to inform the public. If you want to be informed about stuff, the best way is to search out the raw data yourself and come to your own conclusions. But for something like "how vaccines work" it's a very hard read. It's even harder for folk who don't have a scientific background.

The MHRA and JCVI don't have more data than the manufacturers. They will have consulted the manufacturers before making this decision.

Edited by Orraloon
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16 hours ago, Lamia said:

Yeah I would rather he got it when he is scheduled to but I imagine he now won't

 

14 hours ago, Orraloon said:

I would guess that the folk who have already been vaccinated and told they will get their second one in 3-4 weeks, probably still will. Going forward folk will be told that they will get the 2nd one within 12 weeks.

My sister’s second vaccine has just been put back to February. She is a nurse with underlying conditions so I imagine everyone will be the same.  

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I felt a bit bad today woke up coughing with a sore head, panicked and sent my dad to go to my grans and sort all her messages out for next few days, then drank some water. Turns out I feel fine just was a wee bit dehydrated and haven't coughed since i woke up, water sorted my slight headache.

oops

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On 12/30/2020 at 9:39 AM, exile said:

Johnson said "it's a triumph of British Science".

But the Pfizer one was not a triumph of German (etc) science, it was a triumph of British procurement.

There is a trial currently underway combining the AstraZeneca and the Russian Sputnik V vaccines. I wonder how Billy Brit Boris will sell that one if it seems to work better? :lol:

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2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

I don't think there are many journalists around today who have much interest in trying to inform the public. If you want to be informed about stuff, the best way is to search out the raw data yourself and come to your own conclusions. But for something like "how vaccines work" it's a very hard read. It's even harder for folk who don't have a scientific background.

The MHRA and JCVI don't have more data than the manufacturers. They will have consulted the manufacturers before making this decision.

That is the point the manufacturers said they don't know!

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40 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

There is a trial currently underway combining the AstraZeneca and the Russian Sputnik V vaccines. I wonder how Billy Brit Boris will sell that one if it seems to work better? :lol:

I really want that Sputnik vaccine rolled out. Only Argentina I think have been brave enough so far 😆

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On 12/30/2020 at 9:39 AM, exile said:

Johnson said "it's a triumph of British Science".

But the Pfizer one was not a triumph of German (etc) science, it was a triumph of British procurement.

Johnson is a triumph of British stupidity and wholly unfounded delusions of superiority.

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5 minutes ago, DaveyDenoon said:

Johnson is a triumph of British stupidity and wholly unfounded delusions of superiority.

Someone once said he was the product of 1000 years of inbreeding mixed with the best education money can buy, a refutation of eugenics if there ever needed to be one.

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32 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I don't understand what specific bit it is that you are suggesting they don't know?

There is a huge amount of stuff they don't know yet.

They don't know what the impact on the effectiveness will be if you extend the period between the doses.

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12 minutes ago, Lamia said:

They don't know what the impact on the effectiveness will be if you extend the period between the doses.

Ah right. That is correct. 

But they also don't know how effective it will be even if they get the 2nd dose after 3/4 weeks. This is all new science. It's far too early to know how effective any of the vaccines will turn out to be. 

There is a risk involved in extending the time between doses, but there is also a risk involved in not doing it. There is a lot of statistics involved in weighing up those risks.

Seeing the link that phart posted above, it will be interesting to see if MHRA/JCVI change their recommendations for the Pfizer vaccine based on the Pfizer statement. 

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1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

Ah right. That is correct. 

But they also don't know how effective it will be even if they get the 2nd dose after 3/4 weeks. This is all new science. It's far too early to know how effective any of the vaccines will turn out to be. 

There is a risk involved in extending the time between doses, but there is also a risk involved in not doing it. There is a lot of statistics involved in weighing up those risks.

Seeing the link that phart posted above, it will be interesting to see if MHRA/JCVI change their recommendations for the Pfizer vaccine based on the Pfizer statement. 

I simply don't trust them. This may be unfair because these people are not SAGE but look ng at some of the stuff that some of the so called experts have come out with I worry there has been pressure exerted and the decision is as a result simply of that.

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5 minutes ago, Lamia said:

I simply don't trust them. This may be unfair because these people are not SAGE but look ng at some of the stuff that some of the so called experts have come out with I worry there has been pressure exerted and the decision is as a result simply of that.

Most of the folk in these organisations are excellent scientists, but they don't get to that level without being political animals as well. That's no different to any other walk of life. There is no doubt that politics will have played a big part in this decision. That doesn't mean the decision is wrong. Time will tell, maybe. There is also no doubt that UK and Scottish public health officials have got lots of things wrong so far. But they have also got lots of things right. It can't be an easy job.

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2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Most of the folk in these organisations are excellent scientists, but they don't get to that level without being political animals as well. That's no different to any other walk of life. There is no doubt that politics will have played a big part in this decision. That doesn't mean the decision is wrong. Time will tell, maybe. There is also no doubt that UK and Scottish public health officials have got lots of things wrong so far. But they have also got lots of things right. It can't be an easy job.

It is the UK so the chances of it being the wrong one are high.....

I fail to see anything they have got right to be honest.

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4 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

 

My sister’s second vaccine has just been put back to February. She is a nurse with underlying conditions so I imagine everyone will be the same.  

Yes it appears this is the case. This is devastating news for those of us with family in Care Homes who have been effectively denied visits with family imprisoned for 10 months and counting.  We were being told that the vaccine would make a difference and now we are left facing more that two more months of this intolerable situation. Having said that the level 4 restrictions and rising cases have also put paid to any hope we might have had. It makes me livid when I see people behaving in a way that makes it even less likely that I will see my family again!

I don't think people who don't have family in Care Homes have any clue what an utter shambles it is. No other members of society have been denied family access for 10  months or have been banned from setting foot out of the door but many many Care Home residents have endured exactly that. Many have lost their lives in the midst of it all. It is an utter disgrace.

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6 hours ago, phart said:

I felt a bit bad today woke up coughing with a sore head, panicked and sent my dad to go to my grans and sort all her messages out for next few days, then drank some water. Turns out I feel fine just was a wee bit dehydrated and haven't coughed since i woke up, water sorted my slight headache.

oops

hope you & all are well!  stay safe, stay sane!

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