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37 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

This is pretty much how I feel, but again, I am unaffected by it as my job has been safe so it is easy for me to take the moral stance. 
My gripe is with the folk who are complaining about losing basic rights for what will hopefully be a pretty short period of their lives.
This does not include the people who are genuinely concerned about the economy.
 

What we dont hear about however is the large number of companies who are making a fortune out of this pandemic, I work in finance believe me there are plenty. We only ever hear about the job losses.
And what about the people who are being paid furlough money by the government AND being able to take on another job ? As usual the money is not evenly distributed. 
 

I was out looking for a new sofa on Saturday, the sofa shops were heaving. Probably because , like me, folk have been sitting on their arses for months and sick of their living rooms, but it wasnt a sign of people struggling for cash.
I dread however to think what it will be like in 6 months time when furlough has stopped and unemployment kicks in . It’s an absolutely shit situation. 

It's a shit show alright! damned if you do damned if you don't. There's plenty of money it's just concentrated in a small subset.

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4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

There’s been a handful in Melbourne that I’ve seen on the news 

Oh you meant in general I saw that recent one of the mentally distressed person. Yeah the state reserving a monopoly on violence has been an issue for decades if not centuries.

That was an issue pre-covid.

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20 minutes ago, phart said:

I just said masks cause you included it in your post. If you're going to ask hundreds of thousands of people to go into solitary confinement for months then it did seem churlish to moan about masks.

How are you going to develop and process these tests each day? There's 132,000 people who care for 50 hours a week or more (source). 759,000 carers in Scotland in some capacity.

So at least 132,000 tests a day. The most tests Scotland have managed to do so far is 28,800. Leaked reports show that there is actually a backlog

"There was a backlog of 185,000 tests on Friday, according to Department of Health and Social Care documents leaked to The Sunday Times, with some tests being sent to Italy and Germany for processing."

https://www.ft.com/content/45a559bd-ec00-426b-9f05-ac962ba49375

Yeh tbf that would be a massive problem, but massive test centres could be set up to cope with the demand.Also alot of carers are not dealing with ppl who are vulnerable to covid. 

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On 9/10/2020 at 7:41 PM, kiltedlegs said:

Good.  Safe from the virus. 

It's amazing ppl actually think the virus will kill you. 

Before the virus, I was fairly healthy.  After contracting the virus in mid March, I now have incurable cardiac damage and currently struggle to walk any distance, especially uphill.  But hey, it's obviously psychomatic.  Wait till this winter when Covid 20 arrives.  It's called the Karmavirus & I hope it destroys you, you pig ignorant vile wee piece of unionist toley.

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Just now, Alibi said:

Before the virus, I was fairly healthy.  After contracting the virus in mid March, I now have incurable cardiac damage and currently struggle to walk any distance, especially uphill. 

That's terrible to hear, i think we often forget it's not just a case of you're fine or you die, there is long lasting effects for survivors of varying degrees.

I hope it lasting effects improve over time mate.

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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

In reality it wouldn't be 20 percent, alot of ppl would be happy to take the risk and carry on with life as normal, it would only be a small percentage of the population who I would fully support their right to self isolation and I would be happy for them to be given financial support to do this. 

House parties are not going to cause someone to die from covid if that person is currently self isolating. 

You said this :

"Covid has extremely small death rate among the under 65 population. This is not me suggesting fuck the old ppl but how is wearing a mask and the whole of society being restricted to social distancing measures going to affect older ppl if they are shielding like they should be.

And this:

"Does shielding not mean self isolation? The older generation should be self isolating imo. "

 

That is near enough 20% of the population that you said should be isolating.

That's before you take into account all the other folk under 65 who were shielding before the rules were relaxed. 

Then there is some evidence that BAME people are at a higher risk of dying from COVID19. Should they be self isolating too? 

Maybe we should round them all up and house them in specially built secure camps? Just for their own safety obviously.

 

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5 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Before the virus, I was fairly healthy.  After contracting the virus in mid March, I now have incurable cardiac damage and currently struggle to walk any distance, especially uphill.  But hey, it's obviously psychomatic.  Wait till this winter when Covid 20 arrives.  It's called the Karmavirus & I hope it destroys you, you pig ignorant vile wee piece of unionist toley.

I am really sorry to hear this.

The radio show I was listening to last week had a woman on it in a similar situation. She was healthy and active before getting covid in March. She has  what she called ‘long term covid’ . Covid has destroyed part of her lung and her life has totally changed. She is now very debilitated by it. She didnt give her age but sounded no older than in her 50’s, possibly younger. 

Its understandable for people to get frustrated  by the measures in place and have concern about the economy, but those people who think is a figment of the imagination really need to get a grip. Unfortunately it is not only message board trolls that spout that nonsense , there are many people out there who are just refusing to acknowledge the virus is real.  
 

 

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1 hour ago, phart said:

I just said masks cause you included it in your post. If you're going to ask hundreds of thousands of people to go into solitary confinement for months then it did seem churlish to moan about masks.

How are you going to develop and process these tests each day? There's 132,000 people who care for 50 hours a week or more (source). 759,000 carers in Scotland in some capacity.

So at least 132,000 tests a day. The most tests Scotland have managed to do so far is 28,800. Leaked reports show that there is actually a backlog

"There was a backlog of 185,000 tests on Friday, according to Department of Health and Social Care documents leaked to The Sunday Times, with some tests being sent to Italy and Germany for processing."

https://www.ft.com/content/45a559bd-ec00-426b-9f05-ac962ba49375

That's correct our track and trace system is already starting to creak because we can't get the tests done quickly enough. If we can't get the infection numbers down soon and/or increase testing capacity, the track and trace system is going to collapse and we will be back to square one again.

 

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33 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

You said this :

"Covid has extremely small death rate among the under 65 population. This is not me suggesting fuck the old ppl but how is wearing a mask and the whole of society being restricted to social distancing measures going to affect older ppl if they are shielding like they should be.

And this:

"Does shielding not mean self isolation? The older generation should be self isolating imo. "

 

That is near enough 20% of the population that you said should be isolating.

That's before you take into account all the other folk under 65 who were shielding before the rules were relaxed. 

Then there is some evidence that BAME people are at a higher risk of dying from COVID19. Should they be self isolating too? 

Maybe we should round them all up and house them in specially built secure camps? Just for their own safety obviously.

 

Not sure what point you are making, I said that the over 65s should be self isolating. It is however their choice to self isolate. I thought that would be obvious. In reality I doubt anywhere near 20 percent would choose to self isolate. Alot of over 65s are healthy and at a low risk so many would choose to carry on with life and take the risk of getting covid. 

No ones suggesting rounding folk up and locking them away in camps so I don't understand that over dramatic suggestion. 

The bame community suffer more due to coming from poor areas where life expectancy is lower and general health is poorer. Thats about inequality of wealth and the bad health that comes with it rather than them being more genetically susceptible to covid. 

As I said I would happy see vulnerable ppl from all races and walks of life self isolate if they want to and be given the financial support to do so. 

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2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

That's correct our track and trace system is already starting to creak because we can't get the tests done quickly enough. If we can't get the infection numbers down soon and/or increase testing capacity, the track and trace system is going to collapse and we will be back to square one again.

 

As i posted earlier i've got 3 folk i know who had positive tests, it took 7 days for track and trace to contact one 5 days for another and one still hasn't been contacted (as of yesterday), they should be tracing into the past as well and not just who you've been in contact with since positive test, but i think only doing the latter.

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2 minutes ago, phart said:

As i posted earlier i've got 3 folk i know who had positive tests, it took 7 days for track and trace to contact one 5 days for another and one still hasn't been contacted (as of yesterday), they should be tracing into the past as well and not just who you've been in contact with since positive test, but i think only doing the latter.

My understanding is that they ask about "close contacts" within the two days prior to the onset of symptoms or the sample being taken, whichever is the earliest. Also their definition of "close contact" might not be the same as we would imagine. A couple of months ago that definition was clearly stated as "being within 2m of an infected person for 15 minutes or more". That definition seemed a bit strange to me. I couldn't see that definition in official documents the last time I looked for it, so these things might have changed? So, it's possible that the one who hasn't been contacted might not be considered as a "close contact"? You'll find that out if that person does eventually get contacted.

I'm sure the definitions and protocols are changing regularly as they gain more information.

But there is no doubt that the test and trace system is struggling to keep up with all these new infections.

 

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16 minutes ago, phart said:

As i posted earlier i've got 3 folk i know who had positive tests, it took 7 days for track and trace to contact one 5 days for another and one still hasn't been contacted (as of yesterday), they should be tracing into the past as well and not just who you've been in contact with since positive test, but i think only doing the latter.

Technically speaking from the point someone has ordered a test they should be self isolating anyway and so shouldn't have been in a position to pass it on to anyone else.  So while you have to go back, it should only be for a few days back to the point they likely became infected.  Makes sense as their focus is on breaking the current transmission, not looking at where a particular chain emanated.   

Those days between someone testing positive and having their initial contact from Test and Protect do look very worrying though, I hope that that's the exception rather than the norm.  There doesn't appear to be any data published on turnaround for Test and Protect, least ways I can't seem to find any.   

These are the sort of things that seem to ripple through to the media and get picked up at the daily briefings and there hasn't - to the best of my knowledge - been any reports of similar cases, so who knows.

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7 minutes ago, aaid said:

Technically speaking from the point someone has ordered a test they should be self isolating anyway and so shouldn't have been in a position to pass it on to anyone else.  So while you have to go back, it should only be for a few days back to the point they likely became infected.  Makes sense as their focus is on breaking the current transmission, not looking at where a particular chain emanated.   

Those days between someone testing positive and having their initial contact from Test and Protect do look very worrying though, I hope that that's the exception rather than the norm.  There doesn't appear to be any data published on turnaround for Test and Protect, least ways I can't seem to find any.   

These are the sort of things that seem to ripple through to the media and get picked up at the daily briefings and there hasn't - to the best of my knowledge - been any reports of similar cases, so who knows.

I was listening to a Coronavirus roundtable thing and i'm just repeating what kai kupferschmidt was saying and he was repeating what he was told

Here's one of his articles

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/why-do-some-covid-19-patients-infect-many-others-whereas-most-don-t-spread-virus-all

I have no idea if it's indicative or not just 3 folk so could be an anomally.

Another problem is i have a friend who is a teacher and their colleague tested positive last week and he sat next to them and they share a classroom, he's been told to come into school though but the person who sat across from isn't to come into school (decision made by head teacher)and no official word been heard from anyone in track and trace as of yesterday.

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1 minute ago, kumnio said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54199351

This needs investigated, or does it, he has admitted it. If the players have it, and have spread it about, then this needs to be taken further.

I can't believe Morrison was thick enough to tell the media that :blink:

He and his club deserve to be hammered by the law.

He also looks like he's passing a large kidney stone in that pic in the article.

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1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

 

You looked at the show notes and their sources? It's the age of autism website. They try and hide it under "Cunningham 2020" (links to mainstream medical science journals, when it's a comment in the public section someone put up) but when you go to that it turns out it's some guy writing comments on the BMJ (not papers but comments). It's also cherry picking data as not everything correlates either just some of the countries.

It's like looking at this graph and saying US spending on science causes suicides.

hanging_suicides_science_spending_correl

or here's a belter.

 

CC.jpeg

 

However the Brandolini's law comes into effect and it's not really worthy of too much time , what a handful of randoms think in the anything goes section of a dying site (on either side) is just not important.

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