ThistleWhistle Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 44 minutes ago, thplinth said: Well that is the UK now tied with Spain at 580 deaths per million. We passed Italy a while ago now. We will surpass Spain in a day or two. After there is only Andorra (which I exclude as it is just a statelet) and Belgium at 820. Belgium will take some catching but if any country is capable of it, it is Great Britain. Already on it https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/02/exclusive-boris-johnson-takes-back-control-coronavirus-crisis/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 hour ago, thplinth said: Well that is the UK now tied with Spain at 580 deaths per million. We passed Italy a while ago now. We will surpass Spain in a day or two. After there is only Andorra (which I exclude as it is just a statelet) and Belgium at 820. Belgium will take some catching but if any country is capable of it, it is Great Britain. Its desperate and there are still people who think the Government has done a good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
min Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 hour ago, thplinth said: Well that is the UK now tied with Spain at 580 deaths per million. We passed Italy a while ago now. We will surpass Spain in a day or two. After there is only Andorra (which I exclude as it is just a statelet) and Belgium at 820. Belgium will take some catching but if any country is capable of it, it is Great Britain. I suspect the UK has already passed Belgium. They count suspected cases in the official numbers, the UK only count those with a confirmed positive test. In terms of excess deaths, the UK is certainly ahead of Belgium per million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Not the time for a blame game imo. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I am not a politician but none of these people no matter your political view would have foreseen this. It is a crying shame about the people that have died. And yes, in hindsight the governments from this and most other countries could have done more. But they walked in to the unknown. Like all of us. Not normally one to defend politicians but what would we have done when we never knew the extent of this virus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newryrep Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, min said: I suspect the UK has already passed Belgium. They count suspected cases in the official numbers, the UK only count those with a confirmed positive test. In terms of excess deaths, the UK is certainly ahead of Belgium per million. pushing near 67500 now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, min said: I suspect the UK has already passed Belgium. They count suspected cases in the official numbers, the UK only count those with a confirmed positive test. In terms of excess deaths, the UK is certainly ahead of Belgium per million. Not the time to be comparing statistics to use them. Things are what they are and we have to deal with that. We don't even know the proper statistics unless you read them in the Sun, Guardian blah blah blah. And they all differ from country to country, Day to month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 My point is it is easy for us to use the blame game for politicians. That is what they sign up for. But I think in this instance they are not. From every party. It is a virus that originated from another country and no one of us could have foreseen the damage and deaths it has caused. Not even politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThistleWhistle Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said: Not the time for a blame game imo. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I am not a politician but none of these people no matter your political view would have foreseen this. It is a crying shame about the people that have died. And yes, in hindsight the governments from this and most other countries could have done more. But they walked in to the unknown. Like all of us. Not normally one to defend politicians but what would we have done when we never knew the extent of this virus. I disagree mate - the Italian and Spanish governments could use that excuse but we had a lead in yet still are fucking it up spectacularly. We also 'war gamed' it 4 years ago and basically ignored the output. Boris would have been foreign secretary at the time so the need for third party ppe suppliers would have landed on his desk. It's been ad-hoc all the way through with quarantine not even being in place until 1st June and is pretty much diluted already. There's stuff in the paper today that Boris told the Italian Health minister in March when it was kicking off there we were still looking at herd immunity too. That didn't change until they corrected their modelling and realised that could lead to 500k deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 minute ago, ThistleWhistle said: I disagree mate - the Italian and Spanish governments could use that excuse but we had a lead in yet still are fucking it up spectacularly. We also 'war gamed' it 4 years ago and basically ignored the output. Boris would have been foreign secretary at the time so the need for third party ppe suppliers would have landed on his desk. It's been ad-hoc all the way through with quarantine not even being in place until 1st June and is pretty much diluted already. There's stuff in the paper today that Boris told the Italian Health minister in March when it was kicking off there we were still looking at herd immunity too. That didn't change until they corrected their modelling and realised that could lead to 500k deaths. I know and agree with you too. So how did Italy and Spain get on? I think Boris has done a terrible job and not because he is an English Tory. I think Sturgeon has done a reasonable job and not because of SNP. I just think we can all play the blame game here in hindsight when it wasn't a problem of our own making. It is a virus that no one could have foreseen. Even Boris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThistleWhistle Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said: I know and agree with you too. So how did Italy and Spain get on? I think Boris has done a terrible job and not because he is an English Tory. I think Sturgeon has done a reasonable job and not because of SNP. I just think we can all play the blame game here in hindsight when it wasn't a problem of our own making. It is a virus that no one could have foreseen. Even Boris! Italy and Spain can say they didn't see it coming because they were the first really hit following Wuhan. They locked down much harder than us and is probably the main contributor into us overtaking them. Instead of following in their footsteps we held Cheltenham! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 minute ago, ThistleWhistle said: Italy and Spain can say they didn't see it coming because they were the first really hit following Wuhan. They locked down much harder than us and is probably the main contributor into us overtaking them. Instead of following in their footsteps we held Cheltenham! Mate. Ye cant catch coronavirus from a horse. Even I know that! Nah I agree with you in certain ways. I/we are due to go back next week. I don't think that is the correct decision. But it is John Swinneys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardy Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 28 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said: Not the time for a blame game imo. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I am not a politician but none of these people no matter your political view would have foreseen this. It is a crying shame about the people that have died. And yes, in hindsight the governments from this and most other countries could have done more. But they walked in to the unknown. Like all of us. Not normally one to defend politicians but what would we have done when we never knew the extent of this virus. I disagree, there was plenty warning. Look at Greece, their management has been very good. The UK has been terrible and blame should rightly be apportioned however it won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 minute ago, beardy said: I disagree, there was plenty warning. Look at Greece, their management has been very good. The UK has been terrible and blame should rightly be apportioned however it won't. What did Greece do? I do agree the UK has been poor though. I don't like comparisons to other countries though mate. My economics lecturer used to do that with us and Denmark. We can all do that. I think Sturgeon has done a reasonally good job and hopefully lead to our independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newryrep Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said: Mate. Ye cant catch coronavirus from a horse. Even I know that! Nah I agree with you in certain ways. I/we are due to go back next week. I don't think that is the correct decision. But it is John Swinneys. you seem to be in complete denial that the UK had advance notice, no land border ( bar Ireland) and still made a complete mess of it . It is exactly the right time for fingerpointing - there are enough reputable stats out there pointing that out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Newryrep said: you seem to be in complete denial that the UK had advance notice, no land border ( bar Ireland) and still made a complete mess of it . It is exactly the right time for fingerpointing - there are enough reputable stats out there pointing that out Not in denial at all. Every politician in every country will have made mistakes. But probably never expected these poor souls to die. That is all I am saying. Not denial. But you guys will know better than me I am sure because I have stopped watching the news. I cant be bothered with it anymore. So I will ask you a question. Who was to blame for this virus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 41 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said: My point is it is easy for us to use the blame game for politicians. That is what they sign up for. But I think in this instance they are not. From every party. It is a virus that originated from another country and no one of us could have foreseen the damage and deaths it has caused. Not even politicians. You'll probably find no one will take you seriously in discussion I'm actually chuckling at you stepping in and trying to debate in good faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 minute ago, phart said: You'll probably find no one will take you seriously in discussion I'm actually chuckling at you stepping in and trying to debate in good faith. Explain. Between chuckling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 C'mon then. I am between classes and like a bit of honest debate. This is a serious issue and you want to chuckle rather than the other posters who put up a reasonable argument. Tell me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ger intae them Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 RH, you have cemented yer name as being no’ the full shilling if you think the British govt. played the corona pandemic well. Jesus man, think about it..... early warning from Italy/Spain, shambolic resource allocation (then shambolic attempts at sourcing resource the whole world was after ), years of neglect of nhs, the care home scandal (not exclusive to UK, but still an unbelievable scandal), etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, ger intae them said: RH, you have cemented yer name as being no’ the full shilling if you think the British govt. played the corona pandemic well. Jesus man, think about it..... early warning from Italy/Spain, shambolic resource allocation (then shambolic attempts at sourcing resource the whole world was after ), years of neglect of nhs, the care home scandal (not exclusive to UK, but still an unbelievable scandal), etc I just don't like people getting the blame for peoples deaths. They might have been incompetent, yes. As for your second point, our NHS is good and has had a lot of investment. Maybe not enough in a lot of peoples eyes and in mines also. What is a shilling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ger intae them Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 You are not a whole one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newryrep Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 35 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said: Not in denial at all. Every politician in every country will have made mistakes. But probably never expected these poor souls to die. That is all I am saying. Not denial. But you guys will know better than me I am sure because I have stopped watching the news. I cant be bothered with it anymore. So I will ask you a question. Who was to blame for this virus? people forgive mistakes they do not forgive incompetence. I have no idea who is blame for the virus but I aint buying this 'in this altogether, 'nows not the time to apportion blame' bollix ' excess deaths are at 67500 above the norm , how come germany with less notice and numerous land borders have done much better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolling hIlls Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Newryrep said: people forgive mistakes they do not forgive incompetence. I have no idea who is blame for the virus but I aint buying this 'in this altogether, 'nows not the time to apportion blame' bollix ' excess deaths are at 67500 above the norm , how come germany with less notice and numerous land borders have done much better Agree with first sentence. On second one. Do you not know where the virus came from? Its been in the news! 2 minutes ago, ger intae them said: You are not a whole one. Like that one!! Just trying to get the debate going whether I am the full shilling or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser89 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 I've been compiling the daily figures of Corona Virus in Scotland into a spreadsheet with charts so anyone interested can view historical trends etc Link below. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YuHUTB0HsE-rdOBDgwdt4DWfg8eFeW4YZBxp8QNmOcs/edit?usp=sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaundy Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Seems the UK government are pursuing their original herd immunity ( do fek all ) plan . Sure , they deny it and they have made a half arsed lockdown to kid folk on . I reckon they are as much malicious as incompetent in their handling of Covid . The projected death toll estimates ( up to 500,000) were never a concern for the UKers , only the PR fallout. Hence the pretence to be making an effort when a real effort was avoided purposely regarding PPE and the WHO intitial advice to implement the fairly simple to understand Test, Track , Trace policy . Unfortunately these UKers are of a political persuasion that prioritises as they have shown and only pursue of making monies for bigger businesses, their mates. Taking public money to put in private pockets is their main game . Killing off poorer people is a bonus and will in the future be pursued increasingly. but yeah , some half baked buffoons will tell you not to politicise politics usually just before pointing out the clear failings of the SNP Doing a Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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