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If you post on this board (or anywhere similar) you pick your words very carefully. You say exactly what you mean as best you can. Or you will get fucked. 

So when somebody replies to you misquoting what you said and then going off on a straw man fantasy of bullshit then forgive me for saying fuck that. 

 

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35 minutes ago, Alan said:

The replies on here are not normal even for football message boards.  Angry men acting like keyboard warriors over a global pandemic distorting opinions to fit into their narrow view.

Scotland has all the power it needs to battle this pandemic, Sturgeon, Freeman etc have made the decisions and some people are unable to deal with that.

It has been a very sunny day though.

Dude why are you trying to claim some moral high ground here? Sure there are huge partisans on here but you're the biggest partisan on the board who picks and chooses what they answer. Avoids any direct engagement over issues then comes back as soon as the SNP supply you with ammunition fire it off, then go away again.

You're a sophist of the worst kind.

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15 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Personally I think the SNP are very much open to scrutiny on this. However not from Tories as they've made Scotland look competent and certainly not from Scottish Tories who still unbelievably want us closer to those shower of bastards rather than further away. 

 

We've already discussed the huge failings of the SNP (my opinion) in the care home sector amongst us. It's been terrible but, if we're comparing, not as terrible as the Tory administrations policy and certainly their attitude.

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5 minutes ago, phart said:

We've already discussed the huge failings of the SNP (my opinion) in the care home sector amongst us. It's been terrible but, if we're comparing, not as terrible as the Tory administrations policy and certainly their attitude.

It's an interesting juxtaposition that the party of independence are advocating acting in union whereas the party of union are clamouring for greater independence 

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53 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

It's an interesting juxtaposition that the party of independence are advocating acting in union whereas the party of union are clamouring for greater independence 

Yeah. We all know if Sturgeon had said she wanted to lock down at the same time as us fenians over here in Ireland (impossible given Holyrood's lack of fiscal power), that Jackson Carlaw, Murdo Fraser, Alan and his Ibrox chums would have been spitting feathers in a frenzy of apoplectic rage.

Edited by Dave78
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9 minutes ago, Alan said:

 Nothing I said was controversisl, incorrect or even that damning. 

Lets go through them then - my comments in bold and italics.

1 hour ago, Alan said:

Sturgeon has performed better than Johnson. She's a lot better behind a lectern. Professional and polished.  But the detail does not have a huge amount of difference in policy.  It was herd immunity then lockdown. 

Herd immunity is not and never has been a policy of the Scottish government, I don't actually believe it ever was one of the UK Government - at least not formally - although I suspect some may have advocated for it.   That's been denied continually since the start of the outbreak and is the result of misunderstanding and misreporting back in March.   The population obtains herd immunity by having sufficient numbers with immunity to stop the widespread transmission, that immunity is obtained by one of two routes, vaccination or infection.   Talking about "herd immunity" doesn't mean that it's a case of just letting things take its course which in this case means many more people dying than already massive numbers we've seen to date

Rugby and football games on week before. 

The last weekend of live sport in Scotland was the 8 March.   On the 12th March (Thursday) it was announced that from 16th March there would be a ban on mass gatherings of more than 500 people.   The SFA and League authorities unilaterally decided to suspend league fixtures on Friday 13th.  In comparison in England, the Cheltenham festival went ahead that week, however football was suspended at all but National League level that weekend.   Again that was a unilateral decision but unlike Scotland, there was no indication of an upcoming restriction.   Time will tell whether the lockdown should've been in place earlier, however it's worth pointing out that as of the 12th March - there had been a total of 36 confirmed cases in Scotland up to that point.   By comparison in England there had been 1157 by the same date.   Scotland started to initiate lockdown procedures both earlier in the cycle and also chronologically than England.

Nike Conference outbreak in Edinburgh hushed up. 

This really has grown arms and legs but in stating that something has been hushed up, you need to ask what's been hushed up and to what effect.   The conference took place on February 26-27 - at that point there hadn't been a confirmed case in Scotland.   On the 2nd March, Health Protection Scotland were notified that someone had tested positive for COVID-19.   That was one of the international delegates, not someone from Scotland or indeed the UK and who had tested on return home.   At that point the incident management team was put into place and the following day, one of the Scottish delegates tested positive, that case was included in the daily stats for 4th March.  Contact tracing was then instituted and this resulted in a total of 8 cases being associated with the conference - it's not clear whether all 8 were delegates or whether some were contacts who were infected.   The whole "cover-up" angle seems to be based on a woman who runs a kilt shop, who fitted some people from Nike and who *thinks* she might have got it - she hasn't been confirmed as having been infected and who thinks she should've been contacted.   She might ultimately be right or again, she may not have been considered as a contact for totally correct reasons or she may not have been highlighted by the people who were traced.    At this point all there is a lot of mud flying around and nothing sticking.    HPS, have identified the pathology of the "Nike strain" and are researching whether or not this has been significant in the spread in Scotland.    Again though - what possible reason would the Scottish government have for covering this up - I've yet to see any semi-rational basis for that.

Majority of NHS been doing little as everything went into covid so cancer, mental health, abusive relationships etc have got worse. 

Yes, and I think that's in common with pretty much every other country in the developed world.   This is a combination of freeing up capacity so to deal with the expected influx of COVID cases - which thankfully has been lower than was feared and certain treatments being deferred because they represented a higher risk during the pandemic, e.g. it might be tough but putting off your hip replacement operation for a few months might be better than dying in the short term.  All these do have to be taken into account when looking at the overall impact though.   Anyway, what was the possible alternative?

Economy is bust.

Yes, but again what was the alternative - if businesses stayed open and people started dropping like flies and dying, in what state do you think the economy would be like?

Defending Calderwood then backtracking. 

There was no defence of Catherine Calderwood or her actions from the FM.  She stood up on the day the story broke and said she was in the wrong and offered no defence or mitigation.  In fairness Calderwood did exactly the same.   What the FM did do was seek to try and keep her in post as she valued her advice but when it became clear that keeping her in place was counterproductive to the overall public health message she was gone within hours.  Compare and contrast with the complete shitshow over Dominic Cummings who seven days later is still in post.   In fact, Catherine Calderwood was sacked within 24 hours of the SG being made aware of the visit to Fife, 10 Downing Street knew about Cummings in early April.

Care homes have been killing fields. 

Nothing like a bit of hyperbole is there.   That said, I tend to agree with you, the situation in care homes is a national scandal although I suspect Scotland is not unique in that respect.   I also expect that when the drains come up the under-reporting in Care homes in England will become apparent.  I suspect we'll see a system that is underfunded, isn't particularly well integrated, has its own structural problems and where there are - some - bad providers.  I doubt - and I'd say this about any government, including the Boris Johnson led Tory one - you could lay the blame at the feet of any one administration and furthermore that to fix it would need political agreement that I'm not sure is possible - as well as a shit load of money.

Track and trace abandoned now restarted but its through call centres not a mobile app.  It's not been hugely different to England. 

In an ideal world we would've continued with the Track and Trace methodology however its become pretty clear that the infrastructure wasn't in place then and couldn't be scaled up at a rate to keep pace with the expected surge in cases.  Now, with the number of cases declining and also with the infrastructure in place - or at least at a level to cope - it makes sense to go back to that approach.   In terms of being hugely different to England - well there's no App in England yet either, and frankly that's been seen for the "nice to have" gimmick that it actually is.  Matt Hancock has a bit of history with Apps.   Another thing to point out, the contact tracers that are being used in Scotland are NHS professionals, either existing staff that have been redeployed, returners or students close to qualifying and it is an in-house NHS operation.  In contrast, the operation in England has been outsourced to Serco and Capita - both companies with excellent records in performing high quality public services.   The "army of tracers" include all sorts of people, not doubt very nice and competent individuals but they aren't all health professionals.

It IS an impossible task. Our death rates are 2nd or 3rd highest in Europe. Possibly down to demographics of age, ill health - obesity, diabetes etc, maybe unlucky genes?  The virus is hitting some sections/ethicities/groups of society and passing by others.  

I agree with you and to some extent it will be by understanding these factors that we can come to a more objective view on who successful the government - Scottish, UK Or both - has been in dealing with the pandemic.  Again though, these are all multi-generational and structural and the blame cannot be laid at the feet of any one particular administration or can any one administration solve it on their own.    

But patting ourselves on the back is bizarre.   Obsessing about rUK causes distraction no matter the fuck ups of Johnson or Cummings.  Now public are full on out and about today travelling more than 5 miles to places like Loch Lomond.  Same public who don't understand devolution 20+ years since inception.

And that - in the main - is the fault of the public who break the rules not the government and Dominic Cummings aside and the general wooliness of the messaging, the same applies in England as in Scotland.

 

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1 hour ago, Alan said:

 

You have flipped out on my assessment of the impact of the pandemic and decisions by Scottish Government during the pandemic with no counter.

 

Did you see the reaction from cunts like you when she decided to name the emergency hospital the Louisa Jordan rather than Nightingale ?

Did you see the reaction from cunts like you when she decided to shut schools a tiny bity earlier than the RUK ?

Cunts like you voted No and dont want Scotland to make it's own decisions and if the Scottish Government had the power to take a non UK wide approach right from the off you and cunts like you would have had a fucking meltdown

The actions and decisions of the Scottish Government in this pandemic have been decided by Westminster because of cunts like you in 2014  

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24 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Did you see the reaction from cunts like you when she decided to name the emergency hospital the Louisa Jordan rather than Nightingale ?

Did you see the reaction from cunts like you when she decided to shut schools a tiny bity earlier than the RUK ?

Cunts like you voted No and dont want Scotland to make it's own decisions and if the Scottish Government had the power to take a non UK wide approach right from the off you and cunts like you would have had a fucking meltdown

The actions and decisions of the Scottish Government in this pandemic have been decided by Westminster because of cunts like you in 2014  

It's worth remembering that the Tories in Scotland never supported devolution. They'd be happy if our parliament was closed down.

For them to now claim Sturgeon should have acted out of lockstep with Westminster is fucking laughable.

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2 minutes ago, macy37 said:

That’s just opinions not numbers of deaths etc. I’m looking to see if the actual numbers back up the claims that she’s done a better job than that cunt in England.....

Theres a magic thing called the internet, you can look stuff up on it.

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14 minutes ago, macy37 said:

That’s just opinions not numbers of deaths etc. I’m looking to see if the actual numbers back up the claims that she’s done a better job than that cunt in England.....

Maybe be more specific around the sort of numbers you're interested in then.

The rate of excess deaths - which would seem to becoming accepted as the best measure of the impact of the disease - is lower in Scotland than it is in England.  

Whether that means she's doing a better job is entirely subjective, as would be whether doing a better job than Boris Johnson could be considered as doing a good job. 

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21 minutes ago, aaid said:

Maybe be more specific around the sort of numbers you're interested in then.

The rate of excess deaths - which would seem to becoming accepted as the best measure of the impact of the disease - is lower in Scotland than it is in England.  

Whether that means she's doing a better job is entirely subjective, as would be whether doing a better job than Boris Johnson could be considered as doing a good job. 

What’s the deaths per million? I know the internet is a wonderful thing so that’s why I rely on other folk to give me the answers as I’m a lazy cunt and would rather someone else did the work for me. Thanks in advance. 😂

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1 hour ago, macy37 said:

What’s the deaths per million? I know the internet is a wonderful thing so that’s why I rely on other folk to give me the answers as I’m a lazy cunt and would rather someone else did the work for me. Thanks in advance. 😂

You'll  find everything you want at this link - www.google.com

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6 minutes ago, aaid said:

You'll  find everything you want at this link - www.google.com

This is a massive problem, people want information given to them, then they believe it, regardless of whats behind it.

Its why the UK and the US is so utterly fucked up beyond belief right now.

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20 hours ago, macy37 said:

Has she though? Numbers wise, not the fact she’s actually fronted up unlike that cunt Boris, has she???

Cant offer anything more than what the others have posted. I personally think excess deaths are the most reliable number to go on at the moment, thats not to say that wont change of course. 
I also think the way she, and Jason Leitch,  conduct themselves at the briefings gives people confidence and trust in the Scottish Government. People are therefore more likely to adhere to the message they are projecting and thereby reducing deaths.

All that said, the huge number of excess deaths in the  UK is nothing either NS or BJ can be proud of. It is shocking. 

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https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2020/05/31/to-counter-todays-misleading-reports-accurate-measures-of-covid-related-death-levels-in-england-are-approaching-three-times-higher-than-in-scotland/

To counter today’s misleading reports, accurate measures of covid-related death levels in England are approaching THREE TIMES HIGHER than in Scotland

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5 hours ago, macy37 said:

What’s the deaths per million? I know the internet is a wonderful thing so that’s why I rely on other folk to give me the answers as I’m a lazy cunt and would rather someone else did the work for me. Thanks in advance. 😂

There are probably more than enough stats for anyone here

https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/

- infection rates, test rates, how many people in hospital in ICU, recovered, dead. It's got international comparisons and regional variations within Scotland (South v North Lanarkshire, East v West Lothian, etc.) (it's been posted a few times here)

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On 5/30/2020 at 8:15 PM, Alan said:

The replies on here are not normal even for football message boards.  Angry men acting like keyboard warriors over a global pandemic distorting opinions to fit into their narrow view.

Scotland has all the power it needs to battle this pandemic, Sturgeon, Freeman etc have made the decisions and some people are unable to deal with that.

It has been a very sunny day though.

Bollocks. Scotland has to get the go ahead from Westminster for furlough schemes and other economic support measures, because it doesn't run the tax system. 

And yes, I know you'll come back with some petty minded shite about ooooohhhh but they control income tax but that isn't sufficient to address something of this magnitude. If you think it is you're just showing a complete lack of understanding of the economics and you can do one. 

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22 hours ago, macy37 said:

What’s the deaths per million? I know the internet is a wonderful thing so that’s why I rely on other folk to give me the answers as I’m a lazy cunt and would rather someone else did the work for me. Thanks in advance. 😂

That's one of the problems - even just the rates per million aren't exactly comparable for a whole range of factors. The best comparison is the EUROMOMO site linked by exile, as it looks at the statistical deviation from the norm for each country, compared to its own historical average. It's specifically set up to look at the effect of disease going through society, mainly seasonal flu. On this measure, Scotland was pretty bad, but England was truly dreadful. 

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2 minutes ago, biffer said:

That's one of the problems - even just the rates per million aren't exactly comparable for a whole range of factors. The best comparison is the EUROMOMO site linked by exile, as it looks at the statistical deviation from the norm for each country, compared to its own historical average. It's specifically set up to look at the effect of disease going through society, mainly seasonal flu. On this measure, Scotland was pretty bad, but England was truly dreadful. 

Even that can be skewed since 2017 was a statistical outlier for the flu due to a particulary ineffective vaccine. Which i think you might have mentioned earlier anyway.

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1 hour ago, biffer said:

Bollocks. Scotland has to get the go ahead from Westminster for furlough schemes and other economic support measures, because it doesn't run the tax system. 

And yes, I know you'll come back with some petty minded shite about ooooohhhh but they control income tax but that isn't sufficient to address something of this magnitude. If you think it is you're just showing a complete lack of understanding of the economics and you can do one. 

Murdo won't be back on for a few weeks. 

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