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13 hours ago, phart said:

Read the twitter thread i posted up the page a bit, involves Cambridge Analytica, Tom Cotton (who could have been the current head of the CIA) plus the Wakefield families involvement with the same folk in Ukraine that were involved with Trump etc. Lots of weirdness going about.

Indeed. Why would you go back and insert this into your blog. Very weird behaviour.

The more they are tripping over themselves to pin it on China the more you have to suspect it came from them. It really does change the complexion of all of this if you accept that it was essentially made in a lab somewhere.

Does not matter where, nor if its release was deliberate or accidental ... it would take a 'natural' crisis and turn it into a full blown world wide riot situation. People would be raging and rightly so. In these labs they go out of their way to turn fairly harmless viruses into global killers under the guise of research but it is incredibly dangerous and the benefits (outside of biowarfare of course) are minimal. These labs all need to be shut down, permanently and that would be the result of folk realizing this was not a natural pandemic. I think a lot of the people in this field suspect this is not a natural virus but are keeping shtoom, career death if they don't.

Edited by thplinth
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13 hours ago, aaid said:

Why would Dominic Cummings be in Barnard Castle on Palm Sunday with his wife and four year old kid?

is it

a. some secret and unexplained meeting with GSK about COVID19 vaccines.

b. taking a test drive to check out his eyesight before returning to London.

c. because he's an entitled twat who fancied a drive out on his wife's birthday and doesn't think the rules apply to him.

Ā 

i knowĀ which one looks the most likely to me.

I don't think you can discount option d) Complete sucker for a gift shop!Ā 

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There's a part in the film, All the Presidents Men, partway through that I think is particularly relevant in respect of the Cummings story.Ā  Ā In summary, it's where they reveal that the bookkeeper Hugh Sloan revealed to a grand jury that Bob Haldeman was one of the people who controlled the slush funds used for Watergate and other clandestine operations on behalf of Nixon.Ā  For those that remember the film, it's the bit where they go through to whole "which 'H' controlled the money" stuff and get a source to "confirm" the story by not hanging up.Ā  Ā  Anyway, they get the details of the story wrong, Sloan didn't reveal to the Grand Jury but purely on the basis that he was never asked, had he been asked he would have confirmed that.Ā  Ā  The substantive story was correct and Haldeman was later imprisoned for his role in Watergate.Ā  Ā  Anyway, the slight error in the detail of the report, let the White House off the hook and also allowed them to go what would now be called Full Trump on the Washington Post - something which then press secretary Ron Zeigler had to apologise for.Ā  Ā  Ben BradleeĀ  - played by Jason Robards - utters the immortal line, when he's bollocking Woodward and BernsteinĀ  - "You've set the story back months and what's worse, you've got people feeling sorry for the sons of bitches".

Enough Mark Kermode, what's the point with Cummings.Ā  Ā 

I think this is genuinely on a knife edge, and he can tough it out or he'll be gone by the weekend.Ā  Ā In order to tough it out, a few things need to happen: something that isn't Dominic Cummings needs to occupy the front pages; people need to get fed up of it; no new revelations need to come out.

On the later point this is where the MSM in particular needs to be very careful.Ā  Ā There'll be a lot of claims coming out - and there's already been some - that he was seen here there and everywhere.Ā  Some of those will be patently false, some by people who are lying and who want to see him gone.Ā  Ā  Ā Some however will be deliberately planted to set a narrative in play that there's all sorts of nonsense being reported, it's a witch hunt, etc which is designed to cast doubt over what actually is true, classic gaslighting.Ā  Ā It's important that the press don't get sucked into that.Ā  Ā There's a ral danger they'll "Let the fish off the hook".Ā  Ā Lets not forget that in terms of groups of people that the Great British public dislike, the press doesn't come far behind politicians.

You can already see how this works with the official reaction from the likes of Gove claiming that the original reporting "has been proved" to contain loads of inaccuracies.Ā  When pressed on this, if they ever concede then those loads of inaccuracies boil down to the second trip up to Durham and it being his parents who were providing childcare.Ā  Ā In both these cases, nothing has actually been proved, all we have is Cummings word - in the absence of any evidence disproving his word, you have to accept it.Ā  Ā It doesn't mean it's been proven though.

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Cummings shouldn't even be the main story any more. He has already admitted doing enough to get most other people sacked. The question now should turn to why does it seem to beĀ  impossible for Boris to sack him? That's the story now. But I don't think the MSM will want to go down that route.

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1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Even the Scottish death toll is shameful compared to some of these countries.

Ā 

The poorest of the eu countryā€™s locked down early as a result a very low tally in deaths yes correct Scotlandā€™s death toll is shamefulĀ 

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16 minutes ago, wheres the pies said:

The poorest of the eu countryā€™s locked down early as a result a very low tally in deaths yes correct Scotlandā€™s death toll is shamefulĀ 

European countries that just 30 years ago were totally impoverished as a result of decades of communism are showing up the UK for what it really is. I dont think the UK numbers even include all these care home deaths. Folk in the UK are so used to getting shafted they just see it as normal now.

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9 minutes ago, thplinth said:

European countries that just 30 years ago were totally impoverished as a result of decades of communism are showing up the UK for what it really is. I dont think the UK numbers even include all these care home deaths. Folk in the UK are so used to getting shafted they just see it as normal now.

Correct.

Scotland, IMO are being far more truthful in reporting the real level of deaths but even then, the death figures here are a disgrace.

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4 minutes ago, thplinth said:

European countries that just 30 years ago were totally impoverished as a result of decades of communism are showing up the UK for what it really is. I dont think the UK numbers even include all these care home deaths. Folk in the UK are so used to getting shafted they just see it as normal now.

Think the true figure must be kicking around the 70.000 Mark Ā shocking and weā€™ve got another 4 years or so of the fucking government Ā Personally canā€™t see it lasting that long and the thick cunts voted for this shitshow wonā€™t be long until the people take to the streets enough is enough .

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The excess death number was sky high compared to the official numbers when i last checked as well. Since everything is on a lag as well it will be take a while for the consequences of the slight slackening of lockdown i've been observing the last 2 weeks or so.

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2 hours ago, Newryrep said:

Pushing 65000 now

Ā 

Greece has had 300 deaths that I though was surprising

Chief Scientist is an epidemiologist, and the government recognised that they had to lock down early or they would be overwhelmed. They did that, and locked down a lot harder than we did (my nieces weren't allowed to leave the house for weeks, not even to exercise). If you were out in your car, the policeĀ stopped you. There were police checks on every roads out of Athens. If you didn't have a valid excuse, they took the number plates off your car and fined you - not in one or two case, every single time.. And the nature of the island geography made it easier to enforce - you weren't allowed on a ferry unless you could prove your home address was on the island you were going to.Ā Ā 

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2 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Yes,

however, Scotland appears to be more truthful than the UK when you look at excess death rate.

Regardless, whilst I think NS has been a far better leader than BJ, the death rate is shameful. Some of that will be a direct result of UK wide decisions, however a lot of it falls under devolved decision making.

A total shit show throughout the UK.

Really? What measure are you using to come to that conclusion?

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There was an article posted a while ago called The Hammer And The Dance (or something like that).

A good example of this is the Czechs. They really came down hard on this very early (mandatory masks, lockdowns, border controls, bars and restaurants closed, non essential shops closed... the works). This was the Hammer.

Now if Ā you look at the graph of their daily casesĀ  they are very much in The Dance phase now.

The UK never really implemented The Hammer, they did too little too late and as a consequence The Dance part is now happening at a much higher level than it ought to be.

Tens of thousands of people have died in the UK who had they been living in another EU country would be alive right now. We cant just blame the virus for that.

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24 minutes ago, thplinth said:

UK to introduce mandatory 14-day coronavirus quarantine for all international travellers

In typically shambolic UK style it wont start until June 8th! That is two weeks away. WTF is the point of that.

AllĀ these measures are so late... It really is just looking like lip service.

We are only now doing what should have been done right at the start of the epidemic. Test and trace, control people coming into the country, etc. Too little and far too late. We have allowed 10s of thousands to die in an experiment which has gone very badly wrong and after a couple of months of lock down we are now back to a position where we can try to start again.

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26 minutes ago, biffer said:

Chief Scientist is an epidemiologist, and the government recognised that they had to lock down early or they would be overwhelmed. They did that, and locked down a lot harder than we did (my nieces weren't allowed to leave the house for weeks, not even to exercise). If you were out in your car, the policeĀ stopped you. There were police checks on every roads out of Athens. If you didn't have a valid excuse, they took the number plates off your car and fined you - not in one or two case, every single time.. And the nature of the island geography made it easier to enforce - you weren't allowed on a ferry unless you could prove your home address was on the island you were going to.Ā Ā 

cheers didn't know thatĀ  - I suspect the Greek islands will be a popular destinationĀ 

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9 minutes ago, Newryrep said:

cheers didn't know thatĀ  - I suspect the Greek islands will be a popular destinationĀ 

They're opening up to internal tourism next week. Bars and Tavernas open - distanced and outdoors - and some categories of hotels. Travel to the islandsĀ permitted again from the mainland. They'll be opening up to international flights in the next few weeks, but not from the UK, because we're a shitshow.

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51 minutes ago, biffer said:

Chief Scientist is an epidemiologist, and the government recognised that they had to lock down early or they would be overwhelmed. They did that, and locked down a lot harder than we did (my nieces weren't allowed to leave the house for weeks, not even to exercise). If you were out in your car, the policeĀ stopped you. There were police checks on every roads out of Athens. If you didn't have a valid excuse, they took the number plates off your car and fined you - not in one or two case, every single time.. And the nature of the island geography made it easier to enforce - you weren't allowed on a ferry unless you could prove your home address was on the island you were going to.Ā Ā 

I've relatives in the Isle of Man.Ā  There they introduced a similar system there.Ā  You were only allowed to travel there if you lived there normally, ie. you were someone returning or were someone going there for essential work, ie, some essential infrastructure work or delivery of food, medical supplies or the like.Ā  Ā If you were returning to the island you had to quarantine for a fortnight.Ā  Ā I think there was one case of someone refusing to do that and so they helped him to quarantine - in jail.

I think that there's been something similar in place for the Western Isles albeit not backed up by any legislation, but I understand Calmac have only been carrying people who are normally resident on the islands or similar essential supplies.

IOM stats here.

https://covid19.gov.im/general-information/latest-updates/

Edited by aaid
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39 minutes ago, aaid said:

I've relatives in the Isle of Man.Ā  There they introduced a similar system there.Ā  You were only allowed to travel there if you lived there normally, ie. you were someone returning or were someone going there for essential work, ie, some essential infrastructure work or delivery of food, medical supplies or the like.Ā  Ā If you were returning to the island you had to quarantine for a fortnight.Ā  Ā I think there was one case of someone refusing to do that and so they helped him to quarantine - in jail.

I think that there's been something similar in place for the Western Isles albeit not backed up by any legislation, but I understand Calmac have only been carrying people who are normally resident on the islands or similar essential supplies.

IOM stats here.

https://covid19.gov.im/general-information/latest-updates/

If that's their stats with a 'lockdown then something went wrong somewhere.

24 deaths for less than 100000 people, that's a bit shit.

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15 minutes ago, beardy said:

If that's their stats with a 'lockdown then something went wrong somewhere.

24 deaths for less than 100000 people, that's a bit shit.

Not necessarily.Ā  They "locked" down on the 27th March in common with the UK, first death was a couple of days later.Ā  That started to climb in April, given the timeline of infection, incubation, falling ill, becoming seriously ill then dying, that suggests that most of those people were either infected before the lockdown was introduced, or shortly afterwards, e.g. by by contact with family members who's been infected prior.Ā  Ā Since the beginning of May there's been 2 deaths.Ā  Additionally in the same period, there's been 20 confirmed cases.Ā  Ā Essentially it's been pretty much eradicated there for the last month.

Ā 

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1 hour ago, biffer said:

They're opening up to internal tourism next week. Bars and Tavernas open - distanced and outdoors - and some categories of hotels. Travel to the islandsĀ permitted again from the mainland. They'll be opening up to international flights in the next few weeks, but not from the UK, because we're a shitshow.

good to hear , have a mainland Europe holiday booked for mid Aug hoping it will be back to as close to normal as possible

Ā 

It a bit rich to be quarantining people from countries with better records Ā - are they going to be quarantining the greeks with their 300 deaths against a likely UK figure of 66000 ? Am flying out of Dublin anyway

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2 minutes ago, Newryrep said:

good to hear , have a mainland Europe holiday booked for mid Aug hoping it will be back to as close to normal as possible

Ā 

It a bit rich to be quarantining people from countries with better records Ā - are they going to be quarantining the greeks with their 300 deaths against a likely UK figure of 66000 ? Am flying out of Dublin anyway

You might be flying out of Dublin and you might have and ROI passport but you have - I assume - a UK address.Ā  Not sure if that will help you or whether the Greek authorities will have due regard to the finer points of the Good Friday agreement.

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36 minutes ago, aaid said:

Not necessarily.Ā  They "locked" down on the 27th March in common with the UK, first death was a couple of days later.Ā  That started to climb in April, given the timeline of infection, incubation, falling ill, becoming seriously ill then dying, that suggests that most of those people were either infected before the lockdown was introduced, or shortly afterwards, e.g. by by contact with family members who's been infected prior.Ā  Ā Since the beginning of May there's been 2 deaths.Ā  Additionally in the same period, there's been 20 confirmed cases.Ā  Ā Essentially it's been pretty much eradicated there for the last month.

Ā 

I look at the UK numbers with dismay. People are conditioned now into thinking certain numbers are good.

I live in Queensland, 7 deaths since it started, today there are 4 in hospital, 1 in ICU. That's for a population of 5 million.Ā 

The UK numbers, no matter where you go are fvckingĀ horrific.

Now there are clearly factors causing this but the disparity is striking.Ā 

Edited by beardy
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3 minutes ago, beardy said:

I look at the UK numbers with dismay. People are conditioned now into thinking certain numbers are good.

I live in Queensland, 7 deaths since it started, today there are 4 in hospital, 1 in ICU. That's for a population of 5 million.Ā 

The UK numbers, no matter where you go are fvckingĀ horrific.

Now there are clearly factors causing this but the disparity is striking.Ā 

There are loads of factors, some of which will be endemic or structural, i.e. the UK would be more naturally disposed to have a higher fatality rate than other countries regardless of how well or how badly the government handled it.Ā  Those could be to do with demographics, geography, connectedness, industrial mix, whatever.Ā  Ā There will also be factors which will be down to how well or badly the government has dealt with the crisis, what mistakes were made and whether they should've been more prepared.Ā  Ā Those will no doubt come out in the wash but they all need to be looked at.

Random comparisons of deaths per million without context are pretty meaningless.Ā  Ā Who knows, maybe for Queensland, all things considered, 7 deaths per million is in itself too high.

Ā 

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4 minutes ago, aaid said:

There are loads of factors, some of which will be endemic or structural, i.e. the UK would be more naturally disposed to have a higher fatality rate than other countries regardless of how well or how badly the government handled it.Ā  Those could be to do with demographics, geography, connectedness, industrial mix, whatever.Ā  Ā There will also be factors which will be down to how well or badly the government has dealt with the crisis, what mistakes were made and whether they should've been more prepared.Ā  Ā Those will no doubt come out in the wash but they all need to be looked at.

Random comparisons of deaths per million without context are pretty meaningless.Ā  Ā Who knows, maybe for Queensland, all things considered, 7 deaths per million is in itself too high.

Ā 

It's not 7 deaths per million, it is 7 deaths total.Ā 

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