Coronavirus

[Grim Jim]

Hope the police stop Union Jack and his Mini Murray Me at the border and fine them.   Law-breaking bawbags.

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

Correct, any direct comparisons on numbers are meaningless.   However, I do see a number of people try and dismiss this as "it's just the way the numbers are counted" - not suggesting you are - and that there isn't a problem and that somehow it's not as bad as the rest of the UK, or even Europe.    That's downright wrong, there is a serious problem and that's just about the scale of it, really really bad, or really, really, really, really bad.

Similarly you can't say this all proves that the current SNP government are useless as the problems  - or the root of the problems - go back decades and they are not things they can solve this all on their own.   That said, there are things that they could've done in the past or could do now that they aren't doing that would help.

This should be something that's used as a stick to beat either government with and anyone who tries to score political points needs to take a look at themselves, that's my main point.
 

I agree with most of what you have said, but I would like to add that you can't discuss drug problems in Scotland without mentioning reserved powers, IMO.

 

[aaid]

22 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I agree with most of what you have said, but I would like to add that you can't discuss drug problems in Scotland without mentioning reserved powers, IMO.

 

Which is why I said that the Scottish Government can't do it all on their own.

i saw something earlier outlining five things that needed to happen to address the problem.

Two fall under the existing powers of Holyrood, addressing the stigma of drug addiction and abuse and dealing with the medical treatment of drug addicts.  Two are reserved powers, decriminalisation and drug consumption facilities.   The fifth - and probably most difficult and expensive - was dealing with systematic inequality that leads to addiction in the first place, that's something that's up to both governments to address.

[Ally Bongo]

The Sun's Chris Musson (cunt) who has blocked almost every Yesser on twitter and has had his arse handed to him a couple of times by the FM at the Covid Press conferences has done some "spade work" and revealed 900 patients were papped from Hospital to Care Homes without testing - 600 more than Jeanne Freeman said

It's getting relentless and can guarantee very little spadework was done by Musson

His Tory chums at Holyrood will have given him this story whether it's true or not

At least it will be addressed tomorrow

Edited May 20, 2020 by Ally Bongo

[ThistleWhistle]

Evening Standard reporting that new infections in England running at 60,000 a week still well above daily briefing numbers.  

Folk either ain't staying in a state of alertness or Covid-19 is like a ninja sneaking up.  

[wee-toon-red]

Scotland to begin phase one of lifting restrictions from a week today. All seems eminently sensible so far with numbers dropping consistently over the last three weeks and an estimated 25,000 infections in the country.

"Roadmap" to lifting restrictions here:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making-scotlands-route-map-through-out-crisis/

[King Of Paisley]

1 hour ago, wee-toon-red said:

Scotland to begin phase one of lifting restrictions from a week today. All seems eminently sensible so far with numbers dropping consistently over the last three weeks and an estimated 25,000 infections in the country.

"Roadmap" to lifting restrictions here:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making-scotlands-route-map-through-out-crisis/

A real glimmer of hope that we are on the road to normality. If we play the game and continue what we are doing then that normality might return quicker than we thought

[ErsatzThistle]

A Tory MSP used his question at FMQ's to ask if it's alright to play croquet now FFS. 

[Orraloon]

3 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

A Tory MSP used his question at FMQ's to ask if it's alright to play croquet now FFS. 

She should have chapped his balls with a big mallet.

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

13 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

A Tory MSP used his question at FMQ's to ask if it's alright to play croquet now FFS. 

Unsurprisingly he made a dick of himself. The presiding officer asked him to repeat the question as the MSP's in the chamber were pissing themselves. The PO said he thought there was a bad connection.

[biffer]

4 hours ago, wee-toon-red said:

Scotland to begin phase one of lifting restrictions from a week today. All seems eminently sensible so far with numbers dropping consistently over the last three weeks and an estimated 25,000 infections in the country.

"Roadmap" to lifting restrictions here:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making-scotlands-route-map-through-out-crisis/

Timing is good. Should be done to lower than fifty positive tests per day and the idea is to then look to move to phase two three weeks later - by which time we’ll see any resurgence occurring in England from loosening the restrictions and be able to change approach.

[macy37]

Anyone got a breakdown to the uk countries deaths per million?

[teecee-]

10 hours ago, macy37 said:

Anyone got a breakdown to the uk countries deaths per million?

NI-266

Wales-397

Scotland-408

England-569.

[Orraloon]

15 hours ago, biffer said:

Timing is good. Should be done to lower than fifty positive tests per day and the idea is to then look to move to phase two three weeks later - by which time we’ll see any resurgence occurring in England from loosening the restrictions and be able to change approach.

I sometimes think, it's almost like some folk want to see another spike in England. This comment isn't aimed at you, but from some of the stuff I've read it seems some folk will be disappointed if it doesn't happen. I'm more optimistic, I'm not sure they will see a big spike down there. Well not yet anyway. Maybe later on in the year. 

[thplinth]

Folk on here seem happy if Scotland just does better than England even if we are still relatively rubbish versus other countries.

I am really not sure we are doing better considering Scotland has a population density of 70 people per Km2 while England has 430/Km2. (Wales is 151/Km2.)

[Ally Bongo]

It has been a four nation approach right from the start on the main strategy

The idea that the first ministers of Scotland Wales and N Ireland have done anything significantly different is a facade 

 

[thplinth]

Going to be the same in the UK I expect.

https://www.rt.com/news/489292-france-elderly-covid-deaths-lawsuit/

French care homes face manslaughter investigation: Victims’ lawyer tells RT details of ‘scandal amid epidemic’

[King Of Paisley]

Can't believe some of the halfwits who think we are blindly following Johnson's path when it comes to lockdown

[phart]

From a 15,000 sample size study in the lancet just released today

A large observational study suggests that treatment with the antimalarial drug chloroquine or its analogue hydroxychloroquine (taken with or without the antibiotics azithromycin or clarithromycin) offers no benefit for patients with COVID-19. The study analysed data from nearly 15,000 patients with COVID-19 receiving a combination of any of the four drug regimens and 81,000 controls.

Treatment with these medications among patients with COVID-19, either alone or in combination with macrolide antibiotics, was linked to an increased risk of serious heart rhythm complications in these patients.

Researchers suggest these treatment regimens should not be used to treat COVID-19 outside of clinical trials until results from randomised clinical trials are available to confirm the safety and efficacy of these medications for COVID-19 patients.

Prof Dr Mandeep R. Mehra, lead author of the study and Executive Director of the Brigham and Women's Hospital Center for Advanced Heart Disease in Boston, USA, said: "This is the first large scale study to find statistically robust evidence that treatment with chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine does not benefit patients with COVID-19. Instead, our findings suggest it may be associated with an increased risk of serious heart problems and increased risk of death. Randomised clinical trials are essential to confirm any harms or benefits associated with these agents. In the meantime, we suggest these drugs should not be used as treatments for COVID-19 outside of clinical trials."

Edited May 22, 2020 by phart

[Orraloon]

5 hours ago, thplinth said:

Folk on here seem happy if Scotland just does better than England even if we are still relatively rubbish versus other countries.

I am really not sure we are doing better considering Scotland has a population density of 70 people per Km2 while England has 430/Km2. (Wales is 151/Km2.)

I agree, the numbers in both Scotland and England have been very bad. Scotland slightly less bad, so far, but still bad. Although I'm not sure all of England's "care home" deaths have been added to the numbers yet? I think Scotland has had two big advantages. The population density that you mentioned, and I think we went into lockdown at an earlier stage of the epidemic simply because we have been a couple of weeks behind England from the start.

I think both countries just did everything too late. The main one for me being that we didn't adequately prepare to have enough testing capacity soon enough. At the start of the epidemic we effectively stopped testing and contact tracing a few days after it started. We simply couldn't test enough people quickly enough. We lost that one chance to reduce the spread very early on, when we still had low numbers of cases. 

Continuing to import large numbers of cases from other counties didn't help matters either. 

 

 

[biffer]

6 hours ago, thplinth said:

Folk on here seem happy if Scotland just does better than England even if we are still relatively rubbish versus other countries.

I am really not sure we are doing better considering Scotland has a population density of 70 people per Km2 while England has 430/Km2. (Wales is 151/Km2.)

If that was all there was to it, Sweden's population density of 24/km2 would be doing wonders for them. 

And Japan and Singapore have pop densities higher than England. 

That's not to say our numbers are anything to be proud of. Just looking at one factor is pretty pointless. 

Edited May 22, 2020 by biffer

[aaid]

44 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

 

I think both countries just did everything too late. The main one for me being that we didn't adequately prepare to have enough testing capacity soon enough. At the start of the epidemic we effectively stopped testing and contact tracing a few days after it started. We simply couldn't test enough people quickly enough. We lost that one chance to reduce the spread very early on, when we still had low numbers of cases. 

I suspect that will turn out to be the case and while I'm not sure this has been explicitly conceded, there does seem to be an implied admission that the initial testing and contact tracing testing was abandoned as the number of cases increased and that was due to the lack of capacity.  Put simply, and I'm making the numbers up for illustration.  If you can carry out 100 tests a day and get 10 people with symptoms you can afford to test their contacts as well to see if they're also infected.  If you get 100 people with then you can *only* test those people as you need to know if they've got it so that you know how to treat them.

Obviously, you can't just flick a switch and testing capacity takes time to build up.  What isn't clear though is whether any time was "wasted" in building up testing capacity or whether, given the starting point that was done as quickly as was possible.

The follow on from that is whether or not the country should've been better prepared.

i suspect that the picture in both the wider UK and Scotland was broadly similar but I don't think it's remotely clear yet what that was.

Something the inevitable incquiries will come to a view on but I'm not rushing to judgement until the facts become clearer.

[thplinth]

37 minutes ago, biffer said:

If that was all there was to it, Sweden's population density of 24/km2 would be doing wonders for them. 

And Japan and Singapore have pop densities higher than England. 

That's not to say our numbers are anything to be proud of. Just looking at one factor is pretty pointless. 

Never said “that was all there was to it”. Stopped reading at that point.

 

[macy37]

9 hours ago, teecee- said:

NI-266

Wales-397

Scotland-408

England-569.

Link please?

[Farcity]

Looking forward to see the clamour amongst the media regarding Cummins ignoring the lockdown.