Coronavirus

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

I think like a lot of things, something like this crisis just reinforces your core view rather than makes you go one way or another.    If you already support Independence or are open to the idea then you'd probably look at it and think that maybe we'd have been better able to deal with it if we had full control.   If you're against Independence or are sceptical about it, you'll probably take the view that being part of the UK is better.

Yes, which is why I think it is going to be a problem. To win we need to convince people that Scotland can be self sufficient.  The people who need convinced are by and large cautious , I cant see a fresh start with a huge debt winning them over.  

[TDYER63]

4 hours ago, kumnio said:

We arent responsible for it under international law. Tell them to fuck off.

 

2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

That's an easy one. No pound sterling = no debt.

Exactly how do we walk away from it without consequences ? 

[biffer]

On 5/12/2020 at 3:33 PM, Kirk said:

Quite a few folk I have spoken to reckon they had it November/Decemberish, were absolutely floored with it, but just assumed it was bad flu type thing.

Most likely they had the flu. It wasn't a bad flu season this year but there was still plenty of it about, from mid November to early January. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/882403/National_influenza_report_30_April_2020_week_18.pdf

[biffer]

4 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

 

Exactly how do we walk away from it without consequences ? 

There's some stuff in the Vienna convention about what happens if a country secedes vs what happens if a country splits. A lot of that definition is about whether there were agreements in place. 

From a more basic standpoint, if you don't get any of the assets, why should you take any of the debt? And that can also be written as 'fair share' instead of 'any', so there's a line to be taken about reasonable splitting assets of the Royal Navy, Army, Foreign Consulates, etc.etc.

 

[biffer]

Back to CV though, I'm not clear why the Scottish government isn't already enforcing Test, Trace and Isolate in certain areas of Scotland, for example Fife and the Borders. Numbers there have been in single figures for the last couple of weeks and we should be taking the opportunity to implement it where possible to kick the tyres on the systems so it works on the larger scale when needed. 

Although I'm generally of the opinion that the Scottish Government has done a damn sight better than Westminster, there are still some significant questions that need answered, particularly around testing rates which re horrendously low by international standards. Denmark has conducted more than four times the number of tests we have, similar size, similar tech, similar economy. I know there are certain things we were hamstrung in, e.g. we couldn't lock down earlier because we didn't have the levers to provide employee and company support, but there are things we could have done a lot better. 

[aaid]

29 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Yes, which is why I think it is going to be a problem. To win we need to convince people that Scotland can be self sufficient.  The people who need convinced are by and large cautious , I cant see a fresh start with a huge debt winning them over.  

I guess my point is that the vast majority of people who have that perspective will never vote for Indy any time 

[Orraloon]

51 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

 

Exactly how do we walk away from it without consequences ? 

It's not our debt. The SG are not allowed to borrow money (well not much, relatively speaking). That power is reserved to Westminster. The UK has assets as well as debts. We should be entitled to our share of the assets. One of which is the BoE to which a large chunk of the UK debt is owed to. It's all kiddy-on money anyway which will never be repaid. Not in our life times anyway. 

 

[exile]

There seems to be a bit of a fuss about the ratio of care home deaths in Scotland being a problem - and being specifically worse than England. But I don't understand why that is suddenly such an important indicator. Maybe care home deaths are going up while hospital death rates drop - so what?. Or in fact both could be falling, but the ratio of care home deaths could yet be rising. Surely the ratio of care home versus hospital deaths is not, of itself, an indicator of good or bad?

If we look at the latest figures from https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/?fbclid=IwAR1itEZaOQxdrvfM63YodJBnDllS904UzS2Rt2cl0t9mITSqnJnEp7jDoII

it looks as if Scotland has currently 363 deaths per million pop, while England has 523. If politicians are going to stir up controversy between our nations, why don't they focus on that?

Curiously, the Scottish infection rate is very slightly higher than England's (2561 versus 2464 per million population) and yet the fatality rate in England is much higher (21% compared to Scotland's 14%) - so England's is 50% higher than Scotland's. I wonder why that is? England might be expected to have greater infection rate due to density and being closer or more connected to previously infected areas (continental Europe and China, etc), but why would its fatality rate - once one is infected - be so much higher? Maybe I've missed something but no one seems to be asking that?

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

Tory party cabinet meeting.

 

[slasher]

I feel certain England will suffer a second spike. The 'go back to work but don't use public transport' message is insane and incoherent. 

[Orraloon]

12 hours ago, exile said:

There seems to be a bit of a fuss about the ratio of care home deaths in Scotland being a problem - and being specifically worse than England. But I don't understand why that is suddenly such an important indicator. Maybe care home deaths are going up while hospital death rates drop - so what?. Or in fact both could be falling, but the ratio of care home deaths could yet be rising. Surely the ratio of care home versus hospital deaths is not, of itself, an indicator of good or bad?

If we look at the latest figures from https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/?fbclid=IwAR1itEZaOQxdrvfM63YodJBnDllS904UzS2Rt2cl0t9mITSqnJnEp7jDoII

it looks as if Scotland has currently 363 deaths per million pop, while England has 523. If politicians are going to stir up controversy between our nations, why don't they focus on that?

Curiously, the Scottish infection rate is very slightly higher than England's (2561 versus 2464 per million population) and yet the fatality rate in England is much higher (21% compared to Scotland's 14%) - so England's is 50% higher than Scotland's. I wonder why that is? England might be expected to have greater infection rate due to density and being closer or more connected to previously infected areas (continental Europe and China, etc), but why would its fatality rate - once one is infected - be so much higher? Maybe I've missed something but no one seems to be asking that?

At present we don't have much of a clue as to what the infection rate is. We are not doing enough testing to be able to give an accurate figure on that.

[Orraloon]

12 hours ago, exile said:

There seems to be a bit of a fuss about the ratio of care home deaths in Scotland being a problem - and being specifically worse than England. But I don't understand why that is suddenly such an important indicator. Maybe care home deaths are going up while hospital death rates drop - so what?. Or in fact both could be falling, but the ratio of care home deaths could yet be rising. Surely the ratio of care home versus hospital deaths is not, of itself, an indicator of good or bad?

If we look at the latest figures from https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/?fbclid=IwAR1itEZaOQxdrvfM63YodJBnDllS904UzS2Rt2cl0t9mITSqnJnEp7jDoII

it looks as if Scotland has currently 363 deaths per million pop, while England has 523. If politicians are going to stir up controversy between our nations, why don't they focus on that?

Curiously, the Scottish infection rate is very slightly higher than England's (2561 versus 2464 per million population) and yet the fatality rate in England is much higher (21% compared to Scotland's 14%) - so England's is 50% higher than Scotland's. I wonder why that is? England might be expected to have greater infection rate due to density and being closer or more connected to previously infected areas (continental Europe and China, etc), but why would its fatality rate - once one is infected - be so much higher? Maybe I've missed something but no one seems to be asking that?

It is an indicator of how good we have been at protecting people in care homes. I don't think anyone would dispute that we have been very bad at that, in both Scotland and England. I wouldn't put all the blame of that down to governments. Although Boris telling everyone that they are "highly unlikely" to catch it in a care home probably didn't help.

[wheres the pies]

11 hours ago, slasher said:

I feel certain England will suffer a second spike. The 'go back to work but don't use public transport' message is insane and incoherent. 

Sure to happen slasher give it another 3 weeks or so especially in London and in the bigger city’s 

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, wheres the pies said:

Sure to happen slasher give it another 3 weeks or so especially in London and in the bigger city’s 

Are those pictures from this week? Or are they from pre lockdown. People on twatter and the press have been using older pics from pre lockdown to make their point.

[Och Aye]

Anyone seen these flyers? 

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/planned-mass-gatherings-with-picnics-to-protest-lockdown?top

[Parklife]

57 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Are those pictures from this week? Or are they from pre lockdown. People on twatter and the press have been using older pics from pre lockdown to make their point.

Not one person wearing a face-covering suggests they're old pics. 

[wheres the pies]

Possibly old pictures however did see loads of folks pilling out of buses in London yesterday on the news only a few folk with masks on I’m sure this will be the situation on Monday in London as the train operators are ramping up the services point being there’s sure to be another spike 

[ThistleWhistle]

15 hours ago, exile said:

There seems to be a bit of a fuss about the ratio of care home deaths in Scotland being a problem - and being specifically worse than England. But I don't understand why that is suddenly such an important indicator. Maybe care home deaths are going up while hospital death rates drop - so what?. Or in fact both could be falling, but the ratio of care home deaths could yet be rising. Surely the ratio of care home versus hospital deaths is not, of itself, an indicator of good or bad?

If we look at the latest figures from https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/?fbclid=IwAR1itEZaOQxdrvfM63YodJBnDllS904UzS2Rt2cl0t9mITSqnJnEp7jDoII

it looks as if Scotland has currently 363 deaths per million pop, while England has 523. If politicians are going to stir up controversy between our nations, why don't they focus on that?

Curiously, the Scottish infection rate is very slightly higher than England's (2561 versus 2464 per million population) and yet the fatality rate in England is much higher (21% compared to Scotland's 14%) - so England's is 50% higher than Scotland's. I wonder why that is? England might be expected to have greater infection rate due to density and being closer or more connected to previously infected areas (continental Europe and China, etc), but why would its fatality rate - once one is infected - be so much higher? Maybe I've missed something but no one seems to be asking that?

From a purely SG perspective there is definitely questions need answering on care homes.

From a UK perspective if the yoons see this as a stick to beat the SNP with its akin to deciding to attack someone with a landmine whilst you're stuck in the middle of a field of landmines and honestly shows how absolutely shit the media are.  

From what I've read Scottish care home deaths are at about 1,000 whereas UK is at 12k which works out at about population split.  There is a report in the Guardian that excess care home   deaths in England and Wales could be as high as 24k.  

Commenting on the ratios is pretty obtuse - would you rather have a big half slice of a relatively small shit sandwich or about a third of a massive shit sandwich?   

 

[Orraloon]

Looks like this antibody test has been approved. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52656808

How many test kits we can get, and how quickly, is another matter though.

[beardy]

18 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Looks like this antibody test has been approved. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52656808

How many test kits we can get, and how quickly, is another matter though.

It'll be interesting to see how this is utilised. 

It seems Spain and France are reporting a seroconversion rate of only 5%. That's not great considering the amount of deaths. If those numbers are repeated across other countries then lockdown could remain for quite a while. 

[Orraloon]

26 minutes ago, beardy said:

It'll be interesting to see how this is utilised. 

It seems Spain and France are reporting a seroconversion rate of only 5%. That's not great considering the amount of deaths. If those numbers are repeated across other countries then lockdown could remain for quite a while. 

And yet some folk are still talking about achieving herd immunity.

One of the authors of that Stanford paper, we mentioned earlier, has tried to say that their result of 4% gives reason for easing the lockdown. 

[beardy]

13 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

And yet some folk are still talking about achieving herd immunity.

One of the authors of that Stanford paper, we mentioned earlier, has tried to say that their result of 4% gives reason for easing the lockdown. 

Yeah, it's mental how people.are thinking. I think travel could be done for years. We'll become more and more independent island nations. Less reliant on others. You guys in the UK Will have to give up your Apple Macs and get Amstrads 😀

It all now comes down to aquired immunity and vaccines and a lot of time.

It's weird living in Australia, we have so little disease it's crazy. There are 18 patients in ICU for the whole country.

I live in Queensland we have 3 patients in ICU and 7 in hospital. We have population the size of Scotland and we have 6 deaths. 

Edited May 14, 2020 by beardy

[thplinth]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/respiratory-outbreak-investigated-retirement-community-54-residents-fall/story?id=64275865

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/health-officials-to-give-update-after-respiratory-illness-sickens-dozens-at-virginia-retirement-community/135890/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/virus-biological-us-army-weapons-fort-detrick-leak-ebola-anthrax-smallpox-ricin-a9042641.html

Check out the timings... very curious. Very close to each other as well.

Edited May 15, 2020 by thplinth

[beardy]

10 minutes ago, thplinth said:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/respiratory-outbreak-investigated-retirement-community-54-residents-fall/story?id=64275865

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/health-officials-to-give-update-after-respiratory-illness-sickens-dozens-at-virginia-retirement-community/135890/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/virus-biological-us-army-weapons-fort-detrick-leak-ebola-anthrax-smallpox-ricin-a9042641.html

Check out the timings... very curious. Very close to each other as well.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29990618/

2016/17 168 outbreaks in 8 months 2.5% mortality rate. These events in nursing homes are common.

[ThistleWhistle]

10 minutes ago, thplinth said:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/respiratory-outbreak-investigated-retirement-community-54-residents-fall/story?id=64275865

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/health-officials-to-give-update-after-respiratory-illness-sickens-dozens-at-virginia-retirement-community/135890/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/virus-biological-us-army-weapons-fort-detrick-leak-ebola-anthrax-smallpox-ricin-a9042641.html

Check out the timings... very curious. Very close to each other as well.

The Wuhan military Olympics in October adds another dynamic.  US sent 170 athletes so could guess including coaches, family, etc so would imagine 500 to 1000 travelled.